Gordon Elliott

realdanbreen

6 wrote: »

Ffs.

This is awful.

Sky News covering this new video.

Strange the way Sky News never covered the behaviour of British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years. There is loads of video footage there if they wished to show it.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Strange the way Sky News never covered the behaviour of British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years. There is loads of video footage there if they wished to show it.

Strange comparison. Horses versus a war in the middle east!

Morgans

realdanbreen wrote: »

Strange the way Sky News never covered the behaviour of British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years. There is loads of video footage there if they wished to show it.

Jesus. The whataboutery is the weakest defence of Gordon Elliot.

realdanbreen

6 wrote: »

Strange comparison. Horses versus a war in the middle east!

I really don't intend dumbing down my posts so that guys like you can comprehend them.

Ruby Walsh.

"A picture paints a thousand words but I think that picture only painted one and that's 'indefensible,'" he said.

"When I looked at it, I felt angry, I felt embarrassed for my sport and I felt very sad.

"I was always taught that the duty of care to the animal is as much when it is dead as it is when it is alive and that is the way I was taught to conduct myself and it's the way I assumed most people within my sport would conduct themselves."

On the long-term ramifications for the image of the sport and Elliott, Walsh said "it will be a very, very long road".

"It has huge ramifications for the sport and I feel embarrassed for the sport and I felt very sad when I watched that picture that the due care and respect wasn't given to that horse," he said.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2021/0301/1200234-gordon-elliott-photo-indefensible-ruby-walsh/

Hard to disagree with any of this.

Keano

It is getting worse and worse for horse racing as each day passes...

Andrew00

Elliot could be pushed to the brink if this continues

jakiah

Mod edit

Coneygree

Motivator wrote: »

I have a feeling this could end badly if people don’t relax with the hatred being spread online. If it is Rob James in the video, his career is finished and to be honest that’s punishment enough for him. We’re all well aware of the mental fragilities of jockeys in Ireland and that would now be a concern if he keeps getting hammered and his name dragged through the domestic and international media.

What he did was absolutely unbelievable and he deserves whatever punishment is coming his way, the only punishment I see fit is that he’s banned effective immediately but some of the stuff on twitter about him is madness. He’s finished in the industry, leave it at that. We don’t need a tragedy on top of all this as a consequence of Twitter and the media pushing someone to the brink.

Completely agree. This tweet put it in better words than I could.

https://twitter.com/MichaelJohnCh11/status/1366527473979113474?s=20

Seve OB

realdanbreen wrote: »

Strange the way Sky News never covered the behaviour of British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years. There is loads of video footage there if they wished to show it.

Well it seems that the English might be next to feel the wrath with the next video that gets released

startrek56

realdanbreen wrote: »

Strange the way Sky News never covered the behaviour of British troops in Afghanistan and Iraq in recent years. There is loads of video footage there if they wished to show it.

doesnt sell at the moment

Anniepowaaa

Random videos popping up over a large number of years doesn't mean there's a widespread issue in fact completely the opposite

hots

tayto lover wrote: »

It’s kind of sad to see a great horse trainer in trouble like this over a very stupid episode like this. I hope it doesn’t finish his career but by God he brought it on himself. Awful stupid thing to do and even worse coming out with that farcical first statement.

It really is, there's enough sticks used to beat horse racing with without doing something so stupid like this. Hopefully better people can profit from his mistakes now and racing moves on without him.

Seve OB

I was expecting the video to show the Gordon incident which would well and truly shame his original excuse. Who knows, maybe that video is out there and may rear it’s ugly head at some stage

realdanbreen

Mod edit

ShamoBuc

Mod Note

Just a quick reminder to keep posts Civil.

Thank you.

JK2503

JK2503 wrote: »

The pictures are in poor taste and shows a lack of judgement, there is no suggestion that Gordon Elliot was ever cruel to an animal. This however is not the verdict of the trial by social media. I wish some people would show as much compassion for the rest of the human race.

maybe the very people who are upset and are publicly condemning GE's behaviour and the behaviour of the jockey ARE compassionate people who care for animals and for the rest of the human race!

Maybe the people who don't care that much about animals and are not very compassionate are people like Gordon Elliot and staff who think its ok to sit on top of a dead horse and take videos and laugh! I am not on Twitter or other platforms so I don't know what's going on there and yes that is a toxic environment. But I have to condemn what happened.

Ruby Walsh's statement says it all. Its shameful that this happened.

Augme

Anniepowaaa wrote: »

Random videos popping up over a large number of years doesn't mean there's a widespread issue in fact completely the opposite

I'd have thought the opposite. I'm sure there is plenty that goes on that people don't record or have their phone turned on for. There will also be plenty that people won't expose to the world and they'll probably just delete them now too.

There is a certain mindset that carries on like elliot and the other jockey and there is a certain cultures that encourages and allows that carry on. Those cultures aren't created in a vacuum by one of incidents. They are created by consistent patterns of behaviour. That's aw cultures won't suddenly change either.

Motivator

Sean Worried Memory wrote: »

Lets be honest, if no one said anything online it would just be swept under the carpet. Of course people are angry. The "mental health" flag gets waved far too much and is used as a shield to hide behind. It's ridiculous. There is a difference between abuse and robust criticism, but some try and conflate the two to prevent the latter. We have seen this recently with your woman Bailey.

There is nothing to suggest that any of the highlighted actions were the product of someone suffering from mental illness. I'm sorry, but "I got caught and feel bad about being criticized for actions that deserve criticism, so stop criticizing" doesn't fly with me.

Abuse is different, as I said, so that should stop.

I’ll start off by saying I totally agree, I think it needs to be highlighted but I think it’s been done in the wrong way. I’m as guilty as anyone for calling Elliott and James every name under the sun but the difference is I’m not doing it on twitter. I’ve seen lads threatening Rob James and saying all sorts. You can be sure his phone number is being passed around WhatsApp groups and I’ve seen it before where jockeys have been abused that people have even gone and posted their home address on Twitter. Now that isn’t right.

I definitely agree there’s a difference between abuse and robust criticism but which of the two do you think is more prevalent on a platform like Twitter? I don’t want to see him riding under rules again and he won’t be riding PTP either as this will be even worse received by the PTP lads. He’s finished and that’s punishment enough for me. Although the video is more shocking than Elliott’s photo, I’ve more of a problem with Elliott’s one. I don’t think he’ll get a punishment severe enough whereas Rob James’ is more clear cut because he’s an amateur and is more easily disposed of to the industry. Sad to say it but it’s the reality.

Regarding the mental health debate, yes it’s an easy card to play and while I don’t agree with it all the time I certainly have to respect it. It’s a dangerous area and one that can and has had tragic results when people push too far. Absolutely criticise someone but no need for the level of abuse that’s being handed out.

Motivator

Motivator wrote: »

I have a feeling this could end badly if people don’t relax with the hatred being spread online. If it is Rob James in the video, his career is finished and to be honest that’s punishment enough for him. We’re all well aware of the mental fragilities of jockeys in Ireland and that would now be a concern if he keeps getting hammered and his name dragged through the domestic and international media.

What he did was absolutely unbelievable and he deserves whatever punishment is coming his way, the only punishment I see fit is that he’s banned effective immediately but some of the stuff on twitter about him is madness. He’s finished in the industry, leave it at that. We don’t need a tragedy on top of all this as a consequence of Twitter and the media pushing someone to the brink.

Good post.

If I was him, I'd stay away from social media for a while tbh. People lose the run of themselves on the likes of Twitter and Facebook. He'll be dealt with by his profession, leave it at that.

I've been talking to some folk this morning in the Dept of AG, they say this is far worse than the mess around greyhound racing, and predict it will do major damage to the industry, particularly international reputation.

The Tetrarch

I had a look at the websites of our leaders.

IHRB (Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board)
Protecting the Integrity & Reputation of Irish Horseracing

HRI (Horse Racing Ireland)
Our Vision and Mission
At HRI, our vision is to ensure Ireland will be the global leader in Horse Racing and Breeding, sustaining a vibrant and rural industry. Our mission is to develop and promote Ireland's Horse Racing and Breeding industries to administer and govern the sport of Horse Racing in Ireland, to cultivate and promote the highest standards of integrity and welfare.

Not doing too well. :rolleyes:

Plasandrunt

Why are the people who have no interest in horse racing allowed to come in here and **** all over the sport?

Pretty much everyone I've seen who has a love for the game is devastated by the pictures and videos floating around but the last thing we need is those who've never been on this forum before playing some kind of moral high ground floating in and mouthing off.

There's a thread in Current Affairs can they not just post in that?

jakiah

Motivator wrote: »

I don’t want to see him riding under rules again and he won’t be riding PTP either as this will be even worse received by the PTP lads. He’s finished and that’s punishment enough for me. Although the video is more shocking than Elliott’s photo, I’ve more of a problem with Elliott’s one. I don’t think he’ll get a punishment severe enough whereas Rob James’ is more clear cut because he’s an amateur and is more easily disposed of to the industry.

Interesting that there were people here arguing that Elliot did nothing wrong yesterday and were aghast that he even get fined.

Both need to be permanently removed from racing.

Motivator

6 wrote: »

Good post.

If I was him, I'd stay away from social media for a while tbh. People lose the run of themselves on the likes of Twitter and Facebook. He'll be dealt with by his profession, leave it at that.

I posted something on twitter last night and within thirty seconds I deleted it. Would have done absolutely no good and it meant nothing, it would have been just another nasty comment lost in the middle of thousands of others. I’m no angel on twitter and I criticise people openly when I feel strongly about something but there’s a line I don’t ever want to cross because what good will it do? It won’t fix what happened.

Rob James probably didn’t sleep last night and 99% of the time if something bad happens in life you go to sleep and the next day things are better no matter what you’ve done. Rob James’ day is getting worse by the minute today. What he did was insane and it shouldn’t have happened. He’ll be punished, severely and his way of life is over. He’ll be haunted by this for the rest of his days. Leave it at that. I’m glad it was highlighted but the way it’s being handled is crazy and the longer the IHRB delay the more dangerous it gets.

Plasandrunt

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Why are the people who have no interest in horse racing allowed to come in here and **** all over the sport?

Pretty much everyone I've seen who has a love for the game is devastated by the pictures and videos floating around but the last thing we need is those who've never been on this forum before playing some kind of moral high ground floating in and mouthing off.

There's a thread in Current Affairs can they not just post in that?

Maybe if you want only your own opinions to be allowed the thread needs to be made private so you only hear what you want to hear. Most threads on Boards anyone can comment on , at any time. You don't need permission and you don't get sanctioned unless you break the rules.

What has happened has created shockwaves through the racing industry both in Ireland and the UK if not further. This has gone from racing news to mainstream news. It will eventually die down but it will take a few days until people move on. In the meantime they will comment.

ShamoBuc

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Why are the people who have no interest in horse racing allowed to come in here and **** all over the sport?

Pretty much everyone I've seen who has a love for the game is devastated by the pictures and videos floating around but the last thing we need is those who've never been on this forum before playing some kind of moral high ground floating in and mouthing off.

There's a thread in Current Affairs can they not just post in that?

Because it is an open forum and discussion is welcome.

Any post that you believe crosses the line, please Report it rather than reply to it.

If you look back through the thread, several posts are edited, deleted, cards and bans issued.

Coybig_

Precarious situation for the sport. Public rightfully whipped up into a frenzy, will very soon call for government money to be stopped. Sponsors will be getting very twitchy as it looks like this (Elliots incident) wasnt a one off judging from this mornings video.

Think they will have to ban Elliot for 2 years to restore confidence from stakeholders. May (or may not) seem draconian to those directly involved in the sport, but the sport really needs to be seen to take a 0 tolerance stand to this stuff.

The Rooster

Coincidence that Gentle Jolie is a NR in the 17:20 at Gowran today?

The cattle prod video is supposed to be Labaik. Although I haven't seen the vid and so can't comment on who the person or horse it. I've no idea whether this is common, frowned upon or outlawed in the industry. Or if it's even still widely used on cattle.

jakiah

The Rooster wrote: »

Coincidence that Gentle Jolie is a NR in the 17:20 at Gowran today?

The cattle prod video is supposed to be Labaik. Although I haven't seen the vid and so can't comment on who the person or horse it. I've no idea whether this is common, frowned upon or outlawed in the industry. Or if it's even still widely used on cattle.

In fairness theres no point talking about images & videos which haven't publicly surfaced like they definitely exist, things are bad enough with the ones that are circulating.

The Tetrarch

I had a look at the IHRB
RULES OF RACING AND IRISH NATIONAL HUNT STEEPLECHASE RULES

PRESERVING THE GOOD REPUTATION OF HORSERACING

272. Any person involved in horseracing who, within the jurisdiction of the IHRB;
(i) whether verbally or by conduct or behaviour, acts in a manner which is prejudicial to the integrity, proper conduct or good reputation of horseracing
(whether or not such behaviour or conduct, verbal or otherwise is associated directly with horseracing);

shall be in breach of these Rules and liable to sanction.

Motivator

jakiah wrote: »

In fairness theres no point talking about images & videos which haven't publicly surfaced like they definitely exist, things are bad enough with the ones that are circulating.

Well there’s enough rumours doing the rounds that the BHA will have to deal with one of their own shortly enough. I fear things are going to get a whole lot worse for both Irish and UK racing.

Anniepowaaa

Motivator wrote: »

Well there’s enough rumours doing the rounds that the BHA will have to deal with one of their own shortly enough. I fear things are going to get a whole lot worse for both Irish and UK racing.

rumour
/ˈruːmə/
noun
a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.
"they were investigating rumours of a massacre"
Similar:
gossip
hearsay
talk
tittle-tattle
the grapevine
the word on the street
goss
scuttlebutt
poop
tea
furphy
fame
piece of gossip
report
story
whisper
canard
speculation
information
word
news
on dit
buzz
bruit
Opposite:
hard facts
verb
be circulated as an unverified account.
"it's rumoured that he lives on a houseboat"

lemush

Beginning of the end for racing this. Sponsorship will disappear.

JK2503

6 wrote: »

Ruby Walsh.




Hard to disagree with any of this.

"Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"

2ndcoming

For the most part this is the outrage brigade at it. The likes of the BHA have the hump because it flies in the face of the carefully cultivated "racehorses are treated like kings" party line the industry has peddled in the face of any criticism for years.

At the end of the day racehorses aren't treated like kings if they're lame / mad / barren / not good enough, I think we all know what happens there.

Also forget the romantic notion of the small time trainer with a few horses they treat like family making it big at Cheltenham, they love to peddle that one too. It happens occasionally but for the most part these are industrial scale operations with hundreds of horses and dozens of staff. How many horses do you have to see die before you might become a little blasé about it?

These are farming people do you think every time a cow or a sheep drops dead the family get around in a little circle and have a cry and a pray about it? They get on with their work, the first job being get the dead animal removed which is what I would guess Gordon was organising at the time.

There will be a punishment no doubt, it might finish Elliott, then the outrage brigade will move on to the next thing that upsets them while they're chewing on their bacon and sausages. One thing is for certain I'd expect a fair few Nokia 3310 orders going in around Ireland & the UK in the coming days. You can forget about seeing Snapchats or Instagrams from training yards again...

The Rooster

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I had a look at the IHRB
RULES OF RACING AND IRISH NATIONAL HUNT STEEPLECHASE RULES

PRESERVING THE GOOD REPUTATION OF HORSERACING

272. Any person involved in horseracing who, within the jurisdiction of the IHRB;
(i) whether verbally or by conduct or behaviour, acts in a manner which is prejudicial to the integrity, proper conduct or good reputation of horseracing
(whether or not such behaviour or conduct, verbal or otherwise is associated directly with horseracing);

shall be in breach of these Rules and liable to sanction.

Well found.
Does it say what the range of sanctions are?

lemush wrote: »

Beginning of the end for racing this. Sponsorship will disappear.

Hugely damaging, but majority of sponsorship is betting companies. I think they'll stick around!

I don't believe for a second it's the beginning of the end for racing. It will though be interesting to see what else comes out and how the authorities deal with it all. And how long the reaction lasts.

Perhaps one positive is it'll root out any bad treatment that goes on. I think most of us know that most of the horses in the industry are treated well most of the time. But we also know exceptions happen from time to time. There'll be far less exceptions happening going forward.

The Tetrarch

The Rooster wrote: »

Well found.
Does it say what the range of sanctions are?

I found nothing. My guess is they decide based on the severity of the offence.
From a recent read of the William Jones book, The Black Horse is Dying, the IHRB seem to issue fines for horse drug offences, and then often waive them.

Morgans

2ndcoming wrote: »

For the most part this is the outrage brigade at it. The likes of the BHA have the hump because it flies in the face of the carefully cultivated "racehorses are treated like kings" party line the industry has peddled in the face of any criticism for years.

At the end of the day racehorses aren't treated like kings if they're lame / mad / barren / not good enough, I think we all know what happens there.

Also forget the romantic notion of the small time trainer with a few horses they treat like family making it big at Cheltenham, they love to peddle that one too. It happens occasionally but for the most part these are industrial scale operations with hundreds of horses and dozens of staff. How many horses do you have to see die before you might become a little blasé about it?

These are farming people do you think every time a cow or a sheep drops dead the family get around in a little circle and have a cry and a pray about it? They get on with their work, the first job being get the dead animal removed which is what I would guess Gordon was organising at the time.

There will be a punishment no doubt, it might finish Elliott, then the outrage brigade will move on to the next thing that upsets them while they're chewing on their bacon and sausages. One thing is for certain I'd expect a fair few Nokia 3310 orders going in around Ireland & the UK in the coming days. You can forget about seeing Snapchats or Instagrams from training yards again...

Yeah, it will stop all those trainers from smiling taking phone calls while straddling a dead horse as well. Political correctness gone mad.

jakiah

The Rooster wrote: »

Hugely damaging, but majority of sponsorship is betting companies. I think they'll stick around!

Advertising of and sponsorship from gambling companies is not long for this world either.

Labaik

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Why are the people who have no interest in horse racing allowed to come in here and **** all over the sport?

Pretty much everyone I've seen who has a love for the game is devastated by the pictures and videos floating around but the last thing we need is those who've never been on this forum before playing some kind of moral high ground floating in and mouthing off.

There's a thread in Current Affairs can they not just post in that?

Theres certainly some people out there that wouldnt be happy until the whole sport was banned. Cancel culture/Snowflake generation at its most potent.

Hurrache

2ndcoming wrote: »

For the most part this is the outrage brigade at it. ......

These are farming people do you think every time a cow or a sheep drops dead the family get around in a little circle and have a cry and a pray about it?

This is all nonsense. Farmers, no longer farming, in my broader family would never have done what that asshole done. They earn their living from their animals and for the most part farmers have respect for their stock.

My neighbour, currently farming, who's herd I see every day I look out the window, would never do this ****e either.

"outrage brigade" is the verbal equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and not wanting to deal or face the reason why people are justifiably outraged, but try put it down to a small outlier set of people.

Anniepowaaa

Labaik wrote: »

Theres certainly some people out there that wouldnt be happy until the whole sport was banned. Cancel culture/Snowflake generation at its most potent.

Considering they can't get it banned in America the biggest snowflakes around racing will always be around

Hurrache

I said it in the other thread, but anyone using the 'outrage brigade', 'cancel culture', 'snowflakes' etc phrases can't argue this topic and resort to this nonsense as a way for them to try deal with it and brush it off.

jakiah

Hurrache wrote: »

This is all nonsense. Farmers, no longer farming, in my broader family would never have done what that asshole done. They earn their living from their animals and for the most part farmers have respect for their stock.

My neighbour, currently farming, who's herd I see every day I look out the window, would never do this ****e either.

"outrage brigade" is the verbal equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and not wanting to deal or face the reason why people are justifiably outraged, but try put it down to a small outlier set of people.

We've now gone full circle to Elliot being a victim of internet snowflakes who is in danger from poor mental health. Anything but address the actual issue. Its everyone else's fault.

The idea that some of these people are ***** but now there are phones about seems the most likely one to me.

2ndcoming

Morgans wrote: »

Yeah, it will stop all those trainers from smiling taking phone calls while straddling a dead horse as well. Political correctness gone mad.

It's a photo offered without context. Seriously do you want him down on his knees bawling? It's a dead horse, one of hundreds if not thousands he's dealt with.
It is blocking the gallops is probably his only thought at that point. The owner of said horse seems to be the only one who isn't outraged incidentally.

It looks bad but so would lots of things to outsiders in any livestock industry. Call it braindead / gallows humour, whatever, either way the horse ain't coming back and there are bigger problems in the world. I would have a far bigger issue with the treatment of live animals than dead ones, maybe that's just me.

Bubbaclaus

Whatever about him sitting on the dead horse, its the story behind why that person leaked the photo of him which will get him cancelled. Sounds like a right creep.

Russman

Can I ask something, and I'm genuinely not trolling or trying to be controversial.
I've no interest whatsoever in racing, nor am I anti racing in any way, but I was just listening to a radio discussion about this and I must be missing something.....

What is the outrage about ?
My understanding is that the horse was dead and he was sitting on it. Is the allegation that he killed it ? Or is it just that he was photo'd sitting on a dead horse ? One of the radio contributors was mentioning "defenceless animal" so I was thinking maybe there's more to it than a photo.
I mean, ok, probably a bit inappropriate or maybe more accurately, pointless, to sit on a dead horse, but really, is the outrage not a bit OTT ? Its a horse. Sure they sit on them and whip them when they're alive, no ?
I dunno, maybe its just me, but FFS, bigger picture.

Hurrache

Russman wrote: »

What is the outrage about ?
My understanding is that the horse was dead and he was sitting on it.

If you have to ask. The answer is in your question.

2ndcoming

Hurrache wrote: »

This is all nonsense. Farmers, no longer farming, in my broader family would never have done what that asshole done. They earn their living from their animals and for the most part farmers have respect for their stock.

My neighbour, currently farming, who's herd I see every day I look out the window, would never do this ****e either.

"outrage brigade" is the verbal equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and not wanting to deal or face the reason why people are justifiably outraged, but try put it down to a small outlier set of people.

Your broader family, your neighbour... Have you ever actually worked in a large scale livestock operation?