Gordon Elliott

Hurrache

2ndcoming wrote: »

Your broader family, your neighbour... Have you ever actually worked in a large scale livestock operation?

Doesn't matter. People who may never have touched a cow or sat on a horse would still have better respect for an animal than that tit shows.

eagle eye

Labaik wrote:

Theres certainly some people out there that wouldnt be happy until the whole sport was banned. Cancel culture/Snowflake generation at its most potent.

I'm sure there's plenty would like gambling banned from having experienced somebody belonging to them lose everything.
I don't think there's too many against horseracing, lots against gambling.

Anyway Elliott has to be severely punished for this.

Plasandrunt

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Because it is an open forum and discussion is welcome.

Any post that you believe crosses the line, please Report it rather than reply to it.

If you look back through the thread, several posts are edited, deleted, cards and bans issued.

Discussion is definitely more than welcome. I'm not sure slandering the sport as a whole is though especially in this particular forum.

If I went into the Religious forum, criticized the whole concept of organized Religion and questioned the conduct of some those involved then I'd expect to be banned.

paddy no 11

The young lads are pretty thick but that's young fellas

Gordon should have known better and will pay a heavy price

StevieNick

I'm a regular poster in the HR forum so ignore that this is my first post. It isn't.........

So for the people who think this "is the beginning of the end of horse racing"

One of the most stupid statements i have ever read on boards. And there are plenty.

The horse racing industry in Ireland is worth circa EUR2 Billion per annum. It employs directly or indirectly 20k plus people. Do you think that any government will shut this down over a few videos and a picture??? Nonsense.

The hysteria is typical of this day and age. Now, personally the picture is absolutely disgraceful and personally if i had horses with him, i'd pull them. Chevely park have made this decision already and the horses will be gone in the next day or so.

Personally i don't like the chap. He's an arrogant prik. Success came too early, or he may have always been a prik.

I have been in the cmpany on WPM a few times and he is a gent of the highest order who i'm sure cares for his animals to the highest order. For people saying that horses are not cared for, is both irresponsible and idiotic.

I remember AP saying how he cried himself to sleep after i think Synchronised was put to sleep. (I think it was synchronised anyway)

Also, look at the joy,ecstasy,heartbreak a stable hand shows when they enjoy success/death. Don't tell me they don't care.

What would i do in this instance? Big Gordo going to have to take his medicine and face 6 months out. He'll suffer with owners pulling horses but to destroy him completely is not a fair setnece.

Look at wider society - Scumbags robbing shops with knives, drink drivers causing death etc etc, getting a second chance. Now tell me hoestly, does somebody sitting on a dead horse smiling deserve to be destroyed? No, not in my opinion anyway

minibear

I feel sick every time i think of that picture. I follow horse racing, but not to any great degree. I might have a bet a few times a year and i just love watching them. They are magnificent and they are individual with their own little quirks and personalities. Some of them are intelligent, some of them are big goofs. Just like us.

But i just can't get that picture out of my head. I worry about all the things we don't ever get to see in the background of racing. I see the cruelty to horses on the news and on social media but it isn't usually by someone of this perceived stature in an industry already fighting to hold on to an image that I believe is tarnished.

I'm realistic too, i know that if a horse breaks a leg in a race that the only humane way to deal with it is to put it out of it's misery because of the nature of the animal, recovery is almost non existent. And i can appreciate that if the racing industry were to decline, then it could be the end for all racing horses. But horses aren't greyhounds that can be re-homed as pets.

Sometimes if I'm watching a race it's the horse at 50/1 with the string of 7,9,U,P that i'm hoping wins or even places because i don't know where all the losers go. Does anyone? And if that's how Gordon Elliott and the rest of his ilk treat the ones who are a good prospect or cost a lot of money then what the **** happens to the tens of thousands of horses who have nothing to give, or nothing left to give?

On the most basic of levels, surely the picture shows just a lack of empathy with the animal and i naively thought that that's what made a trainer a good trainer. Empathy.

Russman

Hurrache wrote: »

If you have to ask. The answer is in your question.

Insightful reply, thanks. Its much clearer now.

StevieNick

The Rooster wrote: »

Coincidence that Gentle Jolie is a NR in the 17:20 at Gowran today?

The cattle prod video is supposed to be Labaik. Although I haven't seen the vid and so can't comment on who the person or horse it. I've no idea whether this is common, frowned upon or outlawed in the industry. Or if it's even still widely used on cattle.

I'd be more worried for Gordo if it is Labaik, he'd have bigger problems to worry about other than the regulatory bodies.....LOL

JonnieB be up that yard in a flash :P

Hurrache

Russman wrote: »

Insightful reply, thanks. Its much clearer now.

It was literally in the post, the whole idea of taking such a photo is the problem.

The Mig

Mod Note

Less of the allegations please Bubbaclaus

Morgans

2ndcoming wrote: »

It's a photo offered without context. Seriously do you want him down on his knees bawling? It's a dead horse, one of hundreds if not thousands he's dealt with.
It is blocking the gallops is probably his only thought at that point. The owner of said horse seems to be the only one who isn't outraged incidentally.

It looks bad but so would lots of things to outsiders in any livestock industry. Call it braindead / gallows humour, whatever, either way the horse ain't coming back and there are bigger problems in the world. I would have a far bigger issue with the treatment of live animals than dead ones, maybe that's just me.

It is irrelevant what you care about. Im not viewing this from a horse wefare issue. Sitting on a dead horse doesnt bring him back. Been seen to not give a **** about a horse now that its dead is hugely damaging to him, with his millions of euro worth of thoroughbreds owned by some who do give a ****. Its a sheer stupidity issue. Gordon Elliot should not have been stupid enough to leave himself open for this. Yeah, there are bigger problems in the world, but it doesnt take away the damage Elliot has done to himself and the sport. Drawing attention to the bigger problems - at least we have now moved from Sheikh Mohammed yesterday to meat eaters today - wont lessen the damage that Elliot has done.

Id be interested to hear in what context would stradding a dead horse smiling while on the phone would be deemed acceptable. The context of the photo is crystal clear.

Bubbaclaus

The Mig wrote: »

Mod Note

Less of the allegations please Bubbaclaus

Can you please fully delete my post then, because at the moment you have made it look like I am fully defending the man, which I am not doing.

Thanks

#IBelieveHer

Russman

Hurrache wrote: »

It was literally in the post, the whole idea of taking such a photo is the problem.

OK, fair enough, that's a point of view, but how big a problem ? Slap on the wrist, financial sanction, 6 months out, end of career ? I'm not suggesting the photo is fine, its more stupid than anything IMO, but the reaction just seems way OTT for me.

Anyway, I'm out, racing isn't my thing, thanks for answering.

The Mig

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Can you please fully delete my post then, because at the moment you have made it look like I am fully defending the man, which I am not doing.

Thanks

#IBelieveHer

Feel free to delete it yourself. And mind your posting style for future posts!

bcklschaps

2ndcoming wrote: »

For the most part this is the outrage brigade at it. The likes of the BHA have the hump because it flies in the face of the carefully cultivated "racehorses are treated like kings" party line the industry has peddled in the face of any criticism for years.

At the end of the day racehorses aren't treated like kings if they're lame / mad / barren / not good enough, I think we all know what happens there.

Also forget the romantic notion of the small time trainer with a few horses they treat like family making it big at Cheltenham, they love to peddle that one too. It happens occasionally but for the most part these are industrial scale operations with hundreds of horses and dozens of staff. How many horses do you have to see die before you might become a little blasé about it?

These are farming people do you think every time a cow or a sheep drops dead the family get around in a little circle and have a cry and a pray about it? They get on with their work, the first job being get the dead animal removed which is what I would guess Gordon was organising at the time.

There will be a punishment no doubt, it might finish Elliott, then the outrage brigade will move on to the next thing that upsets them while they're chewing on their bacon and sausages. One thing is for certain I'd expect a fair few Nokia 3310 orders going in around Ireland & the UK in the coming days. You can forget about seeing Snapchats or Instagrams from training yards again...

Pretty well balanced post. You could include greyhound racing too.

And whatever about the treatment of the animals outside race day ...its pretty well established that drug cheating is rife in both Horse & dog racing too.

Bubbaclaus

The Mig wrote: »

Feel free to delete it yourself. And mind your posting style for future posts!

I cannot delete other people's posts where you have misleadingly edited what I said. Either fully remove them or restore them please. I don't want my posts edited to change their meaning without my permission.

Thanks

jakiah

Russman wrote: »

Insightful reply, thanks. Its much clearer now.

This is all covered in the thread, you can go back and read it. Basically racing in the modern world has sold the notion that animal welfare (at least off the track) is paramount. This idea is one the sport is built on - all public funding, sponsorship, television coverage and general goodwill towards the sport is predicated on it being valid. People are prepared to accept using animals for sport, as they have for centuries, but they have been sold on and generally accept that the animal will be well looked after in general.

The picture is of one of the most central figures in racing taking the piss and showing zero respect to the animal. It spits in the face of the idea of animal welfare, threatening to bring the whole house of cards down.

lucernarian

It's just a reminder but the original photo in question showed the man with a facial expression that I think most people would call a smile, while giving the peace symbol. I think that adds a lot of insult to injury for Joe soaps like me. I have ridden horses since I was a child but not recently, and it's impossible to think that any farmer I know would sit on their dead animals, and if children started prodding at one found dead, they'd be given a clip and told to gtfo.

But it's not even as bad as the video and other things circulating on twitter, it's the kind of scenario that reminds me of what happened to Phil Hogan.

The Mig

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I cannot delete other people's posts where you have misleadingly edited what I said. Either fully remove them or restore them please. I don't want my posts edited to change their meaning without my permission.

Thanks

You posted a slanderous allegation. Your permission went out the window. I will fully delete your posts now

He sat on the horse to probably check it out!

He's on a phone probably calling a vet?

The only insensitivity I see here is from the arse who took the photograph!

Horses die weekly in this game but unfortunately that's just how it is!

I don't like it happening either but it is what it is!

StevieNick

jakiah wrote: »

This is all covered in the thread, you can go back and read it. Basically racing in the modern world has sold the notion that animal welfare (at least off the track) is paramount. This idea is one the sport is built on - all public funding, sponsorship, television coverage and general goodwill towards the sport is predicated on it being valid. People are prepared to accept using animals for sport, as they have for centuries, but they have been sold on and generally accept that the animal will be well looked after in general.

The picture is of one of the most central figures in racing taking the piss and showing zero respect to the animal. It spits in the face of the idea of animal welfare, threatening to bring the whole house of cards down.

There will be no cards coming down. Educate yourself. Not sure if you have your own agenda posting here looking at some of your previous posts

Labaik

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

its the story behind why that person leaked the photo of him which will get him cancelled. Sounds like a right creep.

Thats his own business not the publics

jakiah

StevieNick wrote: »

There will be no cards coming down. Educate yourself. Not sure if you have your own agenda posting here looking at some of your previous posts

Keep your comments on my agenda to yourself. There have been multiple sports which have tumbled off a cliff in terms of popularity and funding over the last few decades as public opinion and interests shift. The idea that it cant happen to jumps racing is laughable.

StevieNick

jakiah wrote: »

Keep your comments on my agenda to yourself. There have been multiple sports which have tumbled off a cliff in terms of popularity and funding over the last few decades as public opinion and interests shift. The idea that it cant happen to jumps racing is laughable.

No, it's a forum. I'll happily share my opinions. Horse Racing will not be going anywhere. And i can gaurentee you that.

Which sports have tumbled off cliffs that are on a same level financially and popularity wise to Horse Racing?

startrek56

jakiah wrote: »

Keep your comments on my agenda to yourself. There have been multiple sports which have tumbled off a cliff in terms of popularity and funding over the last few decades as public opinion and interests shift. The idea that it cant happen to jumps racing is laughable.

sports like what?

Slattsy

jakiah wrote: »

Keep your comments on my agenda to yourself. There have been multiple sports which have tumbled off a cliff in terms of popularity and funding over the last few decades as public opinion and interests shift. The idea that it cant happen to jumps racing is laughable.

Name them please. Thanks in advance :cool:

lucernarian

Slattsy wrote: »

Name them please. Thanks in advance :cool:

Snooker is a clear one, not that it's the topic here.

davehey79

Slattsy wrote: »

Name them please. Thanks in advance :cool:

Cliff Diving !! :pac::pac::pac::pac:

StevieNick

lucernarian wrote: »

Snooker is a clear one, not that it's the topic here.

Are you joking? Off topic completely but the prize money and particpation has increased more than ten fold in the last 20 years. Very much wrong there

startrek56

lucernarian wrote: »

Snooker is a clear one, not that it's the topic here.

snooker is on the tv most nights now and prize money has never been higher

The Mig

Barry Hearn has revitalised snooker the last few years

StevieNick

The Mig wrote: »

Barry Hearn has revitalised snooker the last few years

Marketing genius

Slattsy

Slattsy wrote: »

Name them please. Thanks in advance :cool:

Well to name the most blindingly obvious and directly comparable example, greyhound racing.

Basically dead as a spectator sport in Ireland and the UK at this stage. Kept on life support until bookies find an alternative.

Slattsy

Snooker

Anniepowaaa

Deleted User wrote: »

Well to name the most blindingly obvious and directly comparable example, greyhound racing.

Basically dead as a spectator sport in Ireland and the UK at this stage. Kept on life support until bookies find an alternative.

there not comparable at all , dont see many greyhound races in dubai for millions

StevieNick

Slattsy wrote: »

Snooker

Slattsy, you should be focusing on the handicaps not wasting your energy for this thread. :P

Seve OB

Hurrache wrote: »

This is all nonsense. Farmers, no longer farming, in my broader family would never have done what that asshole done. They earn their living from their animals and for the most part farmers have respect for their stock.

My neighbour, currently farming, who's herd I see every day I look out the window, would never do this ****e either.

"outrage brigade" is the verbal equivalent of sticking your head in the sand and not wanting to deal or face the reason why people are justifiably outraged, but try put it down to a small outlier set of people.

i was thinking similar
actually posted here
but then i looked up the photo!!!

lucernarian

StevieNick wrote: »

Are you joking? Off topic completely but the prize money and particpation has increased more than ten fold in the last 20 years. Very much wrong there

Popularity???? It's a shadow of its past glory in terms of viewership and prize pools struggled to maintain their 1990s levels for a long time. The greatest to ever hold a cue thinks it's the smoking ban that caused it, but either way it has faced an obvious decline: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/snooker/ronnie-osullivan-pinpoints-one-thing-13641409

Anniepowaaa

Anniepowaaa wrote: »

there not comparable at all , dont see many greyhound races in dubai for millions

The question was name a sport that has fallen off a cliff in terms of popularity and profile.

The answer was greyhound racing.

I'm sorry if you don't like the answer, but it's true. Greyhound racing has never had a huge profile in Dubai, that's true, well spotted.

Toetohand

The Rooster wrote: »

Coincidence that Gentle Jolie is a NR in the 17:20 at Gowran today?

The cattle prod video is supposed to be Labaik. Although I haven't seen the vid and so can't comment on who the person or horse it. I've no idea whether this is common, frowned upon or outlawed in the industry. Or if it's even still widely used on cattle.

Cattle prods are banned have been for a long time over 20 years. Using one then even through ignorance or spite was frowned upon. It just showed up a persons lack of stockmanship regardless of what animal they were used on. Should never have been allowed imo and were banned fairly quickly.

StevieNick

lucernarian wrote: »

Popularity???? It's a shadow of its past glory in terms of viewership and prize pools struggled to maintain their 1990s levels for a long time. The greatest to ever hold a cue thinks it's the smoking ban that caused it, but either way it has faced an obvious decline:

Sorry bud. You're wrong. It is MASSIVE, more so than it has ever been. Viewership has never been higher, of course though you are only probably refferring to it's popularity in Ireland and England

Also the prizepool has never been higher andis much more so than the 90's

lucernarian

The Mig wrote: »

Barry Hearn has revitalised snooker the last few years

He has to be fair, but it did go through a big slump until the last couple of years even. Greyhound racing is probably a better example, at least in this part of the world.

jakiah

startrek56 wrote: »

sports like what?

Snooker being the obvious example. From enormous TV audiences and prizemoney to effectively a dead sport. Boxing, cannibalised by corruption and its morally repugnant overseers.

Growth in Womens sport, MMA, the neverending growth of the football juggernaut, sport is changing all the time.

If this forum is anything of a barometer, it doesn't look good. Arrogant, head in the sand nonsense blaming everyone and everything but the individuals responsible. If it stays on this course, racing will probably move fully to the moral vacuum of the middle east before it goes kaput eventually.

Dodge

Oscar Madison wrote: »

He sat on the horse to probably check it out!

I genuinely don’t care what Elliot did but I found his initial ‘apology’ hilarious and posts like this equally as funny

He sat on the horse because he didn’t give a ****e about a dead horse. It’s that simple

Again, this doesn’t bother me but we now have people so eager to defend him they’re trying to make up all sorts of ****e and others saying he’s the real victim here as his mental health will suffer

It’s ****ing insane stuff

Racing will be grand. Elliot will be OK in the long run and this will hang around him.

We’ll all go back to eating meat and not caring where it comes from and most of us will have a bet oblivious to how the animal (or jockey) was treated

joseywhales

All lot of posters, myself included, fund the systematic slaughter and break down of juvenile animals for our own pleasure as a food source. Yet somehow many of these people are horrified at a horse trainer for sitting on a dead horse. Ethically it does not compute. I would imagine it has more to do with envy and a perceived class warfare.

realdanbreen

davehey79 wrote: »

Cliff Diving !! :pac::pac::pac::pac:

I don't think Dwarf tossing is as popular as it used be.

Slattsy

Greyhound racing was never that popular so hardly comparable. If its dropped in popularity (maybe it has) its dropped form a tiny sample size anyway. I do not know anyone with an interest in greyhound racing. Chalk and cheese.

No one grows up dreaming of owning a greyhound winner around Shelbourne Park.

Slattsy

StevieNick wrote: »

Slattsy, you should be focusing on the handicaps not wasting your energy for this thread. :P

Tis a fair point. :cool:

lucernarian

StevieNick wrote: »

Sorry bud. You're wrong. It is MASSIVE, more so than it has ever been. Viewership has never been higher, of course though you are only probably refferring to it's popularity in Ireland and England

True, I'm thinking of the UK and Ireland - but that does seem comparable to the racing industry and its customers in these parts. Viewership numbers for the WC are a lot lower than the 80s heyday in this part of the world.

StevieNick

jakiah wrote: »

Snooker being the obvious example. From enormous TV audiences and prizemoney to effectively a dead sport. Boxing, cannibalised by corruption and its morally repugnant overseers.

Growth in Womens sport, MMA, the neverending growth of the football juggernaut, sport is changing all the time.

If this forum is anything of a barometer, it doesn't look good. Arrogant, head in the sand nonsense blaming everyone and everything but the individuals responsible. If it stays on this course, racing will probably move fully to the moral vacuum of the middle east before it goes kaput eventually.

Wrong again.

Please research your claims before making them.

50 million, yes 50 million watched the final of shanghai masters last year............I'll keep pulling you up on false claims by the way