Gordon Elliott

Nozebleed

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Guilty of inappropriate treatment of dead horses. Is that even up for debate?

is that even a crime? and if it is...how serious a crime do you think it is?

frank8211

Labaik wrote: »

What do you mean out of character? Elliott didnt rip the horses heart out with his bare hands and start eating it. Fair enough if the horse died because of being mistreated by Gordon but the horse passed away from a heart attack if we are to believe the reports. The picture looks awful, but this happened in a split second and now you have some going on like hes the coming of the anti-christ its mental the attention this is getting.

Because its being followed up by much more!!!

Morgans

Nozebleed wrote: »

is that even a crime? and if it is...how serious a crime do you think it is?

Would you consider emailing Cheveley Park Stud with your thoughts?

realdanbreen

TheadoreT wrote: »

There's a good reason a lot of industry people have gone for the juggler on him with this. The guy is an animal and has been for some time. Nobody can say anything but its being said in roundabout ways in the over the top reaction to this.

Or, it could be pure begrudgery because he built up his yard from nothing to become one of the most successful trainers in Europe. The over the top reaction as you put it comes mainly from the usual quarters.

Seve OB

Nozebleed wrote: »

is that even a crime? and if it is...how serious a crime do you think it is?

Knock yourself out.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/15/enacted/en/print.html

The Tetrarch

Seve OB wrote: »

Knock yourself out.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/15/enacted/en/print.html

Which section of the Act was breached?

Frozen Veg

Fran has a bone wrote: »

Mental health is not a card it's real and destroying a young amateur jockeys career in a pile on will leave that man in not a great place.

You gain nothing only a false sense of moral superiority. Far worse happens in every village and townland of Ireland everyday so get some perspective

I don't get your point.

Online abuse is wrong, I don't condone that.

Sitting on or straddling dead horses is wrong. The people involved have admitted this and apologised. So now there will be punishment for the wrongdoing which will most likely be a lengthy ban.

Your comments re events 'in every other town and village' are irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right.

The reality is, you do the act and then pay the price. Unfortunate for those involved but that's the way it goes.

Frozen Veg

Nozebleed wrote: »

is that even a crime? and if it is...how serious a crime do you think it is?

The persons involved have themselves admitted what they did was wrong.

I assume there is a code of conduct that trainers and jockeys sign up to. Treating animals with care and compassion would be requisites of this. I'm sure the animals in the yard are treated good 99% of the time but unfortunately standards slipped on these occasions.

fawlty682

All murders should be tried by a Facebook jury. Convictions would only take days instead of months.

Doctors room ghost

Slattsy wrote: »

Greyhound racing was never that popular so hardly comparable. If its dropped in popularity (maybe it has) its dropped form a tiny sample size anyway. I do not know anyone with an interest in greyhound racing. Chalk and cheese.

No one grows up dreaming of owning a greyhound winner around Shelbourne Park.

There’s plenty of people who dream of having a big race winner in Shelbourne Park slattsy.derby final in September would be an example.hasn’t been a bitch won the final since spring time in 1999.manys the person would like to break that record.
Meenagh miracle came close last year.
Speak for yourself but each to their own.

lucernarian

Frozen Veg wrote: »

The persons involved have themselves admitted what they did was wrong.

I assume there is a code of conduct that trainers and jockeys sign up to. Treating animals with care and compassion would be requisites of this. I'm sure the animals in the yard are treated good 99% of the time but unfortunately standards slipped on these occasions.

"Standards slipped". It's times like that where I hate how concepts like common sense and a bit of decency and respect around a dead animal that worked for you needs to be a standard to aspire to.

Still I'd agree that animal cruelty is not alleged here and I suspect the IRHB report will find the same

TheadoreT

realdanbreen wrote: »

Or, it could be pure begrudgery because he built up his yard from nothing to become one of the most successful trainers in Europe. The over the top reaction as you put it comes mainly from the usual quarters.

Nope! Phenomenal trainer. But a total wrongun. And this pic wouldn't scratch the surface.

Morgans

fawlty682 wrote: »

All murders should be tried by a Facebook jury. Convictions would only take days instead of months.

Why would a murder case where the murderer confesses take long?

realdanbreen

TheadoreT wrote: »

Nope! Phenomenal trainer. But a total wrongun. And this pic wouldn't scratch the surface.

I'm glad to see that you don't believe in spreading rumours and gossip anyway!

realdanbreen

Morgans wrote: »

Why would a murder case where the murderer confesses take long?

I think he means that by having it on Facebook it would attract every gobshyte in the country.

Morgans

realdanbreen wrote: »

I think he means that by having it on Facebook it would attract every gobshyte in the country.

Still doesn't change that he 'pleaded' guilty and expects punishment - and owners have decided that what he did is enough to move some horses.

What any punter on the internet thinks is irrelevant. Those that matter believe what he admitted to was worthy of punishment.

TheadoreT

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm glad to see that you don't believe in spreading rumours and gossip anyway!

Nope again. A good life mantra is to not defend someone who'll make you look silly for doing so time and time again.

Morgans

Also, Ive seen a slew of trainers come out against this - because Elliot's photo has made their life harder. His stupidity has damaged them.

Oliver Sherwood, Michael Scudamore, Nick Alexander, David Menuisier, David Bridgewater, Nick Gifford are the ones I've seen off to top of my head

Those seeking to downplay the effect should get in touch with them.

Daraa

TheadoreT wrote: »

Nope! Phenomenal trainer. But a total wrongun. And this pic wouldn't scratch the surface.

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill? (Suppose we'll never know but we can't outright dismiss the possibility)

I am starting to think twitter and the rest are starting to come in a bit too hard on GE. I don't think this picture should be forgiven or forgotten but I do think the max fine should be imposed and he should be allowed to race in two weeks. I genuinely believe that he treats his animals with the utmost love and care otherwise I don't think he'd have the owners he has (and had now) backing him over the years or train some of these horses to the highest level. This is one proven incident that is terrible and he should pay a price for it. But he come out and admitted it straight away and is trying to deal with it up front. We can cast doubt on his first press release but the reality is we don't know what happened on that day. As a man as busy as he is with 20 things on the go he maybe wasn't thinking. (He should have and always should be in the future).

tdlr: Don't think this one photo is indicative of how he treats his animals but this shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven. Max fine and let him at the festival.

realdanbreen

Daraa wrote: »

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill? (Suppose we'll never know but we can't outright dismiss the possibility)

I am starting to think twitter and the rest are starting to come in a bit too hard on GE. I don't think this picture should be forgiven or forgotten but I do think the max fine should be imposed and he should be allowed to race in two weeks. I genuinely believe that he treats his animals with the utmost love and care otherwise I don't think he'd have the owners he has (and had now) backing him over the years or train some of these horses to the highest level. This is one proven incident that is terrible and he should pay a price for it. But he come out and admitted it straight away and is trying to deal with it up front. We can cast doubt on his first press release but the reality is we don't know what happened on that day. As a man as busy as he is with 20 things on the go he maybe wasn't thinking. (He should have and always should be in the future).

tdlr: Don't think this one photo is indicative of how he treats his animals but this shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven. Max fine and let him at the festival.

Excellent post.

TheadoreT

Daraa wrote: »

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill?

I'm not sure if you know exactly what you're defending and what your definition of "a bit of a bollix" is but i sincerely doubt you'd be saying that if you did.

Shemale

jackboy wrote: »

Do you know how many racehorses die in Ireland each year. Everyone knows this, you don’t need a picture. Almost no one cares. People like being appalled and piling on individuals, that is what is going on here.

10?

Everyone knows this, how many of these dead horses have their pictures taken with their trainer on them?


How many butchers have circulated images of themselves sitting on their meat smiling with a peace sign?

How many bakeries have circulated images of themselves sitting on their bread smiling with a peace sign?


He posed for a picture smiling, with a victory sign while sitting on his livelihood, it's moronic when you put it that way. It's even more moronic that the horse was owned by his biggest owner and it's even more moronic when his livelihood has to trade on the way they care for and tend to their animals.

It's moronic, he has put all horse racing yards in the country and GB under the microscope for all the wrong reasons, of course the authorities are going to take strict action, because he was MORONIC.

zerosugarbuzz

Daraa wrote: »

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill? (Suppose we'll never know but we can't outright dismiss the possibility)

I am starting to think twitter and the rest are starting to come in a bit too hard on GE. I don't think this picture should be forgiven or forgotten but I do think the max fine should be imposed and he should be allowed to race in two weeks. I genuinely believe that he treats his animals with the utmost love and care otherwise I don't think he'd have the owners he has (and had now) backing him over the years or train some of these horses to the highest level. This is one proven incident that is terrible and he should pay a price for it. But he come out and admitted it straight away and is trying to deal with it up front. We can cast doubt on his first press release but the reality is we don't know what happened on that day. As a man as busy as he is with 20 things on the go he maybe wasn't thinking. (He should have and always should be in the future).

tdlr: Don't think this one photo is indicative of how he treats his animals but this shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven. Max fine and let him at the festival.

Do you know or have you any experience in dealing with horses? any horses let alone thoroughbreds? Because if you are one of those who just like placing a bet you havent a clue what you're talking about.

zerosugarbuzz

Daraa wrote: »

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill? (Suppose we'll never know but we can't outright dismiss the possibility)

I am starting to think twitter and the rest are starting to come in a bit too hard on GE. I don't think this picture should be forgiven or forgotten but I do think the max fine should be imposed and he should be allowed to race in two weeks. I genuinely believe that he treats his animals with the utmost love and care otherwise I don't think he'd have the owners he has (and had now) backing him over the years or train some of these horses to the highest level. This is one proven incident that is terrible and he should pay a price for it. But he come out and admitted it straight away and is trying to deal with it up front. We can cast doubt on his first press release but the reality is we don't know what happened on that day. As a man as busy as he is with 20 things on the go he maybe wasn't thinking. (He should have and always should be in the future).

tdlr: Don't think this one photo is indicative of how he treats his animals but this shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven. Max fine and let him at the festival.

Do you know or have you any experience in dealing with horses? any horses let alone thoroughbreds? Because if you are one of those who just like placing a bet you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

frank8211

Daraa wrote: »

Ah like, how do you get to his level (without a family legacy behind you) and put in a top level trainers hours and not be a bit of a b*llix? To maintain that level of dedication and standard in racing takes so much time and perfectionism that i'd allow some of his personalty traits. Having said that AOB (and family) and WPM are on another level of gentlemen but I'd wonder if GE had families as big supporting him in the business and as much history behind him would he be as chill? (Suppose we'll never know but we can't outright dismiss the possibility)

I am starting to think twitter and the rest are starting to come in a bit too hard on GE. I don't think this picture should be forgiven or forgotten but I do think the max fine should be imposed and he should be allowed to race in two weeks. I genuinely believe that he treats his animals with the utmost love and care otherwise I don't think he'd have the owners he has (and had now) backing him over the years or train some of these horses to the highest level. This is one proven incident that is terrible and he should pay a price for it. But he come out and admitted it straight away and is trying to deal with it up front. We can cast doubt on his first press release but the reality is we don't know what happened on that day. As a man as busy as he is with 20 things on the go he maybe wasn't thinking. (He should have and always should be in the future).

tdlr: Don't think this one photo is indicative of how he treats his animals but this shouldn't be forgotten or forgiven. Max fine and let him at the festival.[/QUOTEBut there is much more where that photo came from

Thud

Frozen Veg wrote: »

Guilty of inappropriate treatment of dead horses. Is that even up for debate?

How would you say they moved the horse from there?

Daraa

TheadoreT wrote: »

I'm not sure if you know exactly what you're defending and what your definition of "a bit of a bollix" is but i sincerely doubt you'd be saying that if you did.

I don't know the lad personally. All I can say is that I've followed his success for 5+ years now and have heard him speak on many a occasion. I've also heard the rumors and the "whatsapp" gossip but I can only speak to what I know and what has been proven in the public eye. I'm always happy to be proven wrong and will admit that i'm wrong when it all comes out.

I'm just frustrated when I see a mans body of work from 2006 - 2021 be pulled apart over one picture. (again, shouldnt be forgotten or forgiven). If his whole yard came out tomorrow (or more than one past staff member) and say hes a terrible creature and shouldn't be allowed near horses I'll admit that I'm wrong. But this hasn't happened in this instance and the pic has been out for a few days.

jackboy

Shemale wrote: »

10?

Everyone knows this, how many of these dead horses have their pictures taken with their trainer on them?


How many butchers have circulated images of themselves sitting on their meat smiling with a peace sign?

How many bakeries have circulated images of themselves sitting on their bread smiling with a peace sign?


He posed for a picture smiling, with a victory sign while sitting on his livelihood, it's moronic when you put it that way. It's even more moronic that the horse was owned by his biggest owner and it's even more moronic when his livelihood has to trade on the way they care for and tend to their animals.

It's moronic, he has put all horse racing yards in the country and GB under the microscope for all the wrong reasons, of course the authorities are going to take strict action, because he was MORONIC.

You are right, it was moronic, but that is all.

Morgans

jackboy wrote: »

You are right, it was moronic, but that is all.

He is getting punished for being moronic.

jackboy

Morgans wrote: »

He is getting punished for being moronic.

Of course, for PR reasons. If this wasn’t a big deal in the media there is no chance he would be punished.

Shemale

Morgans wrote: »

Also, Ive seen a slew of trainers come out against this - because Elliot's photo has made their life harder. His stupidity has damaged them.

Oliver Sherwood, Michael Scudamore, Nick Alexander, David Menuisier, David Bridgewater, Nick Gifford are the ones I've seen off to top of my head

Those seeking to downplay the effect should get in touch with them.

I saw Fergal O Brien too

nsnoefc1878

jackboy wrote: »

He is in trouble because he got his picture taken while posing on a dead horse, nothing more. There is a pile on because of the media hype. If there was no picture almost no one would give a damn about the dead horse, it would not be newsworthy.

So let's say an undertaker or nurse sat on your dead mother and took a picture, laughing and making a stupid gesture, you'd have no problem with it?

KaneToad

I'm sure by now most people have heard the reason behind why such an old picture has now surfaced.

I don't get the hysteria. The horse was already dead. He sat on it either taking the mickey or genuinely on the phone (as per his statement). Neither of which are crimes. I guess he doesn't have the 'love' of the horses that others do. He's all about the money for him/his owners. Nothing wrong with that. Some people seem to think he should have been distraught at the death of the horse.

The picture should never have been circulated. That's the real problem.

Morgans

jackboy wrote: »

Of course, for PR reasons. If this wasn’t a big deal in the media there is no chance he would be punished.

Yes. If the evidence wasnt all over social media he wouldnt get punished. But he has, and it has a huge effect on the industry, and has damaged the industry in all sorts of different ways. This includes the PR disaster of him cheering in the winners circle if Abracadbras wins the Champion hurdle.

Its why he will get 6 months, and any runners will be in another trainers name until then.

jackboy

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

So let's say an undertaker or nurse sat on your dead mother and took a picture, laughing and making a stupid gesture, you'd have no problem with it?

😂

Seve OB

Next video promised for 10pm tonight

lalababa

KaneToad wrote: »

I'm sure by now most people have heard the reason behind why such an old picture has now surfaced.

I don't get the hysteria. The horse was already dead. He sat on it either taking the mickey or genuinely on the phone (as per his statement). Neither of which are crimes. I guess he doesn't have the 'love' of the horses that others do. He's all about the money for him/his owners. Nothing wrong with that. Some people seem to think he should have been distraught at the death of the horse.

The picture should never have been circulated. That's the real problem.

Can someone point me in the right direction as to why the picture surfaced?

Shemale

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Do you know or have you any experience in dealing with horses? any horses let alone thoroughbreds? Because if you are one of those who just like placing a bet you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

This is like saying you can't talk about a murder shooting until you have shot someone yourself.

Morgans

KaneToad wrote: »

I'm sure by now most people have heard the reason behind why such an old picture has now surfaced.

I don't get the hysteria. The horse was already dead. He sat on it either taking the mickey or genuinely on the phone (as per his statement). Neither of which are crimes. I guess he doesn't have the 'love' of the horses that others do. He's all about the money for him/his owners. Nothing wrong with that. Some people seem to think he should have been distraught at the death of the horse.

The picture should never have been circulated. That's the real problem.

He shouldnt have been in the situation where a picture of him sitting on a dead horse could be revealed. It does not matter what you think is acceptable. If his owners who pay his bills have a problem with it, then its a big issue for Gordon. Some have a problem, others dont.

Shemale

Thud wrote: »

How would you say they moved the horse from there?

Looks like Gordon tried to ride it off the gallops.

nsnoefc1878

jackboy wrote: »

😂

Is she already dead?

billyhead

Morgans wrote: »

He shouldnt have been in the situation where a picture of him sitting on a dead horse could be revealed. It does not matter what you think is acceptable. If his owners who pay his bills have a problem with it, then its a big issue for Gordon. Some have a problem, others dont.

Who leaked it and why?

Allinall

nsnoefc1878 wrote: »

So let's say an undertaker or nurse sat on your dead mother and took a picture, laughing and making a stupid gesture, you'd have no problem with it?

Was the dead horses family around to witness the dastardly event?

lalababa

fawlty682 wrote: »

All murders should be tried by a Facebook jury. Convictions would only take days instead of months.

Minutes!

nsnoefc1878

Daraa wrote: »

I don't know the lad personally. All I can say is that I've followed his success for 5+ years now and have heard him speak on many a occasion. I've also heard the rumors and the "whatsapp" gossip but I can only speak to what I know and what has been proven in the public eye. I'm always happy to be proven wrong and will admit that i'm wrong when it all comes out.

I'm just frustrated when I see a mans body of work from 2006 - 2021 be pulled apart over one picture. (again, shouldnt be forgotten or forgiven). If his whole yard came out tomorrow (or more than one past staff member) and say hes a terrible creature and shouldn't be allowed near horses I'll admit that I'm wrong. But this hasn't happened in this instance and the pic has been out for a few days.

The sheer bad luck of being caught out the only time he broke from his saintly duties. What are the odds eh

Shemale

jackboy wrote: »

You are right, it was moronic, but that is all.

I never said it was a criminal act but he knew the terms of registration with IHRB and he still did it so he has to investigated and they will punish him.

Kid Charlemagne

Shemale wrote: »

10?

he was MORONIC.

Nobody doubts he (or the jockey) were moronic.

Personally, I have done moronic stuff all my life.

Have I committed crimes? No. Have I mistreated animals? No.


A bit of perspective please.

Shemale

jackboy wrote: »

Of course, for PR reasons. If this wasn’t a big deal in the media there is no chance he would be punished.

Of course he would be punished. He breached the rules he signed up to.

Morgans

billyhead wrote: »

Who leaked it and why?

Well, thats a matter of conjecture. It would seem that it was designed to damage him personally and professionally.

I would think that there are plenty in the industry who know the real story - very few trainers or owners are saying 'lets wait for the investigation to return its findings before making conclusions'. Certainly not O'Leary or Cheveley Park. Gordon knows the true story as well, and he has promised to help the IHRB investigation and maybe the report this week will enlighten.

Kid Charlemagne

Shemale wrote: »

I never said it was a criminal act but he knew the terms of registration with IHRB and he still did it so he has to investigated and they will punish him.

Exactly - its up to them, not half the country.