Gordon Elliott

Oops!

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bladespin

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Slattsy

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fryup

Shemale wrote: »

I hope he gets a fine of 1000 to go to an animal charity.

He has suffered enough.

1k ? he'd be delighted with that

10k minimum to my lovely horse

Shemale

Thud wrote: »

The same horse (and most others) probably gets dragged out, put on a truck and sent to dog food factory shortly after. At what point do you switch off the respect?

They are not pets and can’t be buried in a shoe box in your garden.

You are conveniently missing the point, that horse was the livelihood of Elliott and his staff, the horse was owned by someone else, that horse was allegedly "treated like a king" that horse was part of horse racing. It was a scummy, disresectful, damaging thing to do.

We have a dog, my wife wanted one, the dog is annoying and noisy and the biggest bain of my life. If she has to be put down and a picture appears of the vet sitting on her after she has passed I wouldn't be happy about it. Neither would I imagine would a lot of other people.

Shemale

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partyguinness

Horses are commodities. They are literally traded as commodities. They are then bred, forcibly castrated, trained and forced to run around a big field to near exhaustion, jump over big fences, sat on and whipped by a little man child.

If they get injured they face being put to death (sometimes on the track), forced out to stud to make to more money for some lucky dealer, then at the end they are sent to a slaughter house and turned into dog food.

All this under the general category of "sport" and perfectly normal. A trainer makes a complete clown of himself by allowing himself to be photographed sitting on a dead horse and everyone loses their freakin minds.

Weird.

tipptom

Thud wrote: »

The same horse (and most others) probably gets dragged out, put on a truck and sent to dog food factory shortly after. At what point do you switch off the respect?

They are not pets and can’t be buried in a shoe box in your garden.

God help them if they seen the video of the truck hooking on the straps and dragging him in to the truck

I would swear some of these headbangers thinks you should call Masseys for a casket.

AnBeagalltach

partyguinness wrote: »

Horses are commodities. They are literally traded as commodities. They are then bred, forcibly castrated, trained and forced to run around a big field to near exhaustion, jump over big fences, sat on and whipped by a little man child.

If they get injured they face being put to death (sometimes on the track), forced out to stud to make to more money for some lucky dealer, then at the end they are sent to a slaughter house and turned into dog food.

All this under the general category of "sport" and perfectly normal. A trainer makes a complete clown of himself by allowing himself to be photographed sitting on a dead horse and everyone loses their freakin minds.

Weird.

After your little rant can you explain how forcibly castrated horses are put out to stud to make more money?

Weird as you say

Shemale

partyguinness wrote: »

Horses are commodities. They are literally traded as commodities. They are then bred, forcibly castrated, trained and forced to run around a big field to near exhaustion, jump over big fences, sat on and whipped by a little man child.

If they get injured they face being put to death (sometimes on the track), forced out to stud to make to more money for some lucky dealer, then at the end they are sent to a slaughter house and turned into dog food.

All this under the general category of "sport" and perfectly normal. A trainer makes a complete clown of himself by allowing himself to be photographed sitting on a dead horse and everyone loses their freakin minds.

Weird.

What is weird is that you think a horse can be castrated and then forcibly put to stud.

Yeah, I am sure the stallions hate all the riding

partyguinness

AnBeagalltach wrote: »

After your little rant can you explain how forcibly castrated horses are put out to stud to make more money?

Weird as you say

Some are castrated and some are sent to stud- is that better?

I would have thought you were smart enough to take the general point.

Shemale

partyguinness wrote: »

Some are castrated and some are sent to stud- is that better?

I would have thought you were smart enough to take the general point.

I would have thought you were smart enough to know that testicles produce sperm

partyguinness

Shemale wrote: »

Yeah, I am sure the stallions hate all the riding

Really? I would suggest you go and do some research on how it is performed e.g. heads covered, forced into position and restraints used. Oh and let's not forget the use of electroejaculation.

That is a clown of a post and both highly ignorant and childish.

partyguinness

Shemale wrote: »

I would have thought you were smart enough to know that testicles produce sperm

What is your point?

Shemale

partyguinness wrote: »

Really? I would suggest you go and do some research on how it is performed e.g. heads covered, forced into position and restraints used. Oh and let's not forget the use of electroejaculation.

That is a clown of a post and both highly ignorant and childish.

Look at the expert that didn't know you need testicles to be a stallion.

Amazing the number of geldings that have sired foals.

I know all about studs and how they operate, your post is ignorant and clownish.

You must be either a vegan or a hypocrite so if you eat meat as these practices are common in farming.

tipptom

Shemale wrote: »

You are conveniently missing the point, that horse was the livelihood of Elliott and his staff, the horse was owned by someone else, that horse was allegedly "treated like a king" that horse was part of horse racing. It was a scummy, disresectful, damaging thing to do.

We have a dog, my wife wanted one, the dog is annoying and noisy and the biggest bain of my life. If she has to be put down and a picture appears of the vet sitting on her after she has passed I wouldn't be happy about it. Neither would I imagine would a lot of other people.

There is no comparison between a small pet dog and a 550 kg horse bred for racing

Shemale

partyguinness wrote: »

What is your point?

Maybe you are not as smart as you think / portray

hots

tipptom wrote: »

There is no comparison between a small pet dog and a 550 kg horse bred for racing

Of course there is, they're both things that I wouldn't sit on when dead.

naughto

I support Charlotte I mean Gordon

Silly Gilly

byronbay2 wrote: »

I would be absolutely disgusted if he was that severely treated. What he did was crass and stupid but (imo) this incident is another example of a social-media witch hunt where people who have no real interest in the subject jump on the "outrage" bandwagon.

I personally think that a fine and awareness-training course would suffice but expect him to be suspended for a few (2-3) months, at the worst possible time for him. In reality, losing those wonderful Cheveley Park horses that he has brought along with such skill and dedication should really be punishment enough!

I says wrote: »

It’s only an image is right. The ihrb will have to be seen coming down heavy on this or they’ll face the pitchfork brigade. As for mistreating live animals I’ve no time for that. Dogs get a bad rap because their arrogant owners think their to superior to either walk them with a lead on, or pick up the dog’s ****e after them.

mistermiyagi wrote: »

6 month ban I would think as fair.
Will be 3 minimum, missing out on all the big festivals, Jun-Aug low key anyway so 6 should be enough to appease the vultures of society.
Start afresh in September.
He, and his stable, have suffered enough already this week, never mind the loss of Envoi Allen amongst others.

tipptom wrote: »

drugging,abducting,imprisoning,torture,intimidation to women all on British soil........silence,
silly fu*k sits on a dead horse in another country.....lads lets get stuck in in Ireland

Robson99 wrote: »

I give the dog a kick in the arse when he needs it. Horse or cattle get a slap of a wavin pipe from me if the are being hard to handle. Maybe I should be in jail ?
Maybe the teacher who gave me a few slaps when I was acting the maggot in school should be doing time.

People really need to find something to do with their time than trying to bring more torture on what the man and his family are going through the last week

There are nice characters here on the Racing forum. Blame everyone else but the perpetrator of the act. Throw in a little xenophobia from Tom and top it off with an admitting of animal cruelty from Robbo.

Some boys!

Shemale

Some embarssing posts in here defending Elliott.

He took the video, most of his yard knew about this. Most of the industry kept it and Rob James video in house and now the industry is blaming people outside the industry cause Gordon might lose his licence for a bit.

If it wasn't a bad thing to do why did Gordon come out with that utter bull**** statement, people defending him are an embarassment.

Slattsy

Silly Gilly wrote: »

There are nice characters here on the Racing forum. Blame everyone else but the perpetrator of the act. Throw in a little xenophobia from Tom and top it off with an admitting of animal cruelty from Robbo.

Some boys!

You'd just love to ask the horse how it felt about the whole incident, wouldn't you?

Straight from the horses mouth, one could muse. But the horse is dead.

Slattsy

All this talk of castration makes me want a hot dog.

Muahahaha

tipptom wrote: »

They have a case from their OWN juristiction sitting on their table for the last two years that is ongoing and had come to a frenzy after the panorama programme a few weeks back

A British High Court ruled as fact that the Shekh drugged,abducted,imprisoned,tortured and intimidated his two daughters and his wife,the sheikh appealed this to the supreme court and lost,all on British soil

The same BHA rules and criteria say you have to be a fit and proper person for British racing and "the subject should not be the subject of any adverse findings in any Civil Proceedings.

So they dont deal with or make any comment on a person in their own juristiction who has drugged,abducted,tortured and intimidated three women beside the BHA office in Portman Square but rush out a statment about a another juristiction within a day while that authority was dealing with it.
By the way in their rush to try and bury their own story they tried to intimadate owners in another country to leave Elliots yard and have now had to row back on that.

It was not the correct action and there was no need for it while the IRHB was dealing with it,Elliot was been dealt with but they seized the opportunity to bury the Sheikh story


Which case do you think the BHA should be dealing with first,considering Elliot is not even licensed by them and was been dealt with by its own authority,the guy in another country sitting on a dead horse or the fella who repeatedly drugs,abducts,tortures and intimidates women etc in their own country under their own rules?

Thats a fair point about the BHA and their silence over the Sheikh kidnapping his daughters, something a UK High Court found to be true yet the BHA have taken no action against him. iirc he even stole 5 horses from his now ex wife Princess Haya, the horses got returned but he faced no sanction from the BHA for doing it in the first place.

But the IRHB are just as culpable in their silence as the Sheikh owns a number of studs here. So today they will ban Elliot on the grounds of bringing the sport into disrepute but they equally ignore the Sheikh bringing the sport into disrepute when he kidnapped, drugged and tortured two of his own daughters.

By any measure the Sheikh has brought the sport into disrepute by horse racings very own rules but both the Irish and British associations have remained silent on the matter. They are equally culpable for not speaking out about the elephant in the room.

tipptom

hots wrote: »

Of course there is, they're both things that I wouldn't sit on when dead.

Yeah,it must be tiring for you riding your jack Russell around the gallops every morning,washing him down,taking him to the swimming pool,entering him for races,declaring him and taking him racing

Your dog is probably cooped up in a unhygenic house every day

What do you thin Elliot would get in court for whatever crime you can make up for sitting on a dead horse?

Hoboo

Silly Gilly wrote: »

There are nice characters here on the Racing forum. Blame everyone else but the perpetrator of the act. Throw in a little xenophobia from Tom and top it off with an admitting of animal cruelty from Robbo.

Some boys!

That's the difference between some punters/horse racing fans, and lovers of horses. They don't get it because the love and respect for the animal isn't there. If someone can't see what he did was gross misconduct at best, you just don't get it.

I'm with Ruby. Indefensible. Proper horse man, not some gob****e who hits an animal with Wavin beacause he hasn't the skills or intelligence.

partyguinness

Shemale wrote: »

Look at the expert that didn't know you need testicles to be a stallion.

Please point out where I said that or in fact made any specific reference to stallions. You are deliberately twisting my post.

Shemale wrote: »

I know all about studs and how they operate, your post is ignorant and clownish.

.

Please tell me what part of my post is incorrect.

Simple question: Are studs alowed to mate 'naturally' when they feel like it or are the forcibly made to mount (while restrained and sometimes hooded) while a bunch of lads stand around gawping with $$ twirling around in their eyes?

Am I wrong on that?

Shemale wrote: »

You must be either a vegan or a hypocrite so if you eat meat as these practices are common in farming

.

Stupid comment and of no relevance- I know it is common practice in farming but again what has that got do with my post?

I am not a vegan and I eat meat which is why I find everyone elses faux outrage hypocritical.

Weird. Elliott was an idiot and wrong. It's the pearl clutching and faux outrage I find bizaare.

Come back to me when you have the good grace back up your points. If my post is all wrong then I am all ears.

Shemale

tipptom wrote: »

There is no comparison between a small pet dog and a 550 kg horse bred for racing

I havent seen any pictures of zooloigists sitting on dead zebras

Robson99

Silly Gilly wrote: »

There are nice characters here on the Racing forum. Blame everyone else but the perpetrator of the act. Throw in a little xenophobia from Tom and top it off with an admitting of animal cruelty from Robbo.

Some boys!

Define Animal Cruelty

partyguinness

Shemale wrote: »

I havent seen any pictures of zooloigists sitting on dead zebras

Doesn't mean it doesn't happen or right for that matter.

Robson99

Hoboo wrote: »

That's the difference between some punters/horse racing fans, and lovers of horses. They don't get it because the love and respect for the animal isn't there. If someone can't see what he did was gross misconduct at best, you just don't get it.

I'm with Ruby. Indefensible. Proper horse man, not some gob****e who hits an animal with Wavin beacause he hasn't the skills or intelligence.

You obviously have never worked with animals other than possibly a cat or a budgie . I suggest you work on a farm for a day or two.

tipptom

Hoboo wrote: »

That's the difference between some punters/horse racing fans, and lovers of horses. They don't get it because the love and respect for the animal isn't there. If someone can't see what he did was gross misconduct at best, you just don't get it.

I'm with Ruby. Indefensible. Proper horse man, not some gob****e who hits an animal with Wavin beacause he hasn't the skills or intelligence.

Who is defending what he done?

I dont know anyone in racing who has not said what he done was wrong.

tipptom

Shemale wrote: »

I havent seen any pictures of zooloigists sitting on dead zebras

I dont see pet dogs or grannies housed with the Zebras in the zoo

Horses are bred for racing,they are not domestic pets,whats a Zebra doing in Dublin?

tipptom

naughto wrote: »

I support Charlotte I mean Gordon

Is there a reason why you wont just come out and say it?

Okay,who is this Charlotte and why do you support her?

Anniepowaaa

Hoboo wrote: »

That's the difference between some punters/horse racing fans, and lovers of horses. They don't get it because the love and respect for the animal isn't there. If someone can't see what he did was gross misconduct at best, you just don't get it.

I'm with Ruby. Indefensible. Proper horse man, not some gob****e who hits an animal with Wavin beacause he hasn't the skills or intelligence.

There will be no horses to love if not for racing , horses are next to useless in the modern world

Dr. Bre

Anniepowaaa wrote: »

There will be no horses to love if not for racing , horses are next to useless in the modern world

True. Horses would have been used in wars a long time ago. Nobody goes into war on horseback now

Coneygree

tipptom wrote: »

Is there a reason why you wont just come out and say it?

Okay,who is this Charlotte and why do you support her?

.

The Tetrarch

MOD note to partyguinness

Please be respectful when posting.

partyguinness wrote: »

Simple question: Are studs alowed to mate 'naturally' when they feel like it or are the forcibly made to mount (while restrained and sometimes hooded) while a bunch of lads stand around gawping with $$ twirling around in their eyes?

I pointed out in a previous point that Thoroughbreds are not a natural breed. They are not found in the wild.
It follows from that that there are no natural herds of mares running with stallions and breeding naturally - the term is "loose covering".
Occasionally mares are hobbled or wear boots to prevent damage from kicking.
You comment "a bunch of lads stand around gawping with $$ twirling around in their eyes" is written to provoke a reaction (flaming).

Please follow the rules when posting.
If you do not know the rules then read the rules, or do not post.

partyguinness

Robson99 wrote: »

You obviously have never worked with animals other than possibly a cat or a budgie . I suggest you work on a farm for a day or two.

It reminds me of an apt description of the series "Countryfile" on BBC 1 every Sunday night

"It's how City folk imagine how Country folk live." i.e. utterly sterilised and unrealistic.

All warm and cutesy where lambs dance with gay abandonment and blue birds sing all day on flowers. Cows horses and ponies peacefully and happily graze on healthy green pastures and live out their days in tranquil harmony.

Where I grew up (in rural Ireland) a farmer put it to me in stark terms: animals are for working or eating. Back in the mid-80s when we hung around after school, I saw plenty of rotting sheep and cow carcasses dumped by famers and thrown into rivers.

Farming, horse racing, hell even show jumping, is an industry. I am not saying right wrong or indifferent- it is an industry and a pure money-making exercise and we all play our part in it.

CFlat

Hopefully the IRHB see this for what it is, total nonsense. He should be fined a few grand for that photograph which was a incredibly stupid thing for him to do and make him donate it to one of those horse charities. You know the ones that look after horses that were left in fields with no feed or hayledge and gone to skin and bone. The horses that are genuinely miss treated that no one ever gets prosecuted for? Can you see where I'm going with this?

If there's any suspension of his licence it will be a travesty of justice for him and his yard and the 80 people that work there.

naughto

tipptom wrote: »

Is there a reason why you wont just come out and say it?

Okay,who is this Charlotte and why do you support her?

If you dont no then your not in the know charlotte I mean
Gordon is the dude that sat on a dead horse

th hen

I think the biggest lesson gordon needs to learn from it all is to act more professional.

He's a public figure in the sporting world and needs to run his yard with a bit more professionalism . It's a working yard , if rumours of bar are true he needs to close it while in a lockdown like every other public house. He needs to treat his staff in a professional manner and he needs to appreciate the horses he has and the owners. In short he needs to become more humble.

I think a lot of the public outcry stems moreso from the rumours and whatapps circulating about what's going on inside his yard than his actual crime. I think he's suffered enough media hatred now. Ihrb need to give there punishment , he needs to employ a serious pr person to work with him for next 2 years to help repair his reputation. If he gets winners people will move on. Minds are fickle.

partyguinness

The Tetrarch wrote: »

MOD note to partyguinness

Please be respectful when posting.

I pointed out in a previous point that Thoroughbreds are not a natural breed. They are not found in the wild.
It follows from that that there are no natural herds of mares running with stallions and breeding naturally - the term is "loose covering".
Occasionally mares are hobbled or wear boots to prevent damage from kicking.
You comment "a bunch of lads stand around gawping with $$ twirling around in their eyes" is written to provoke a reaction (flaming).

Please follow the rules when posting.
If you do not know the rules then read the rules, or do not post.

I appreciate why and how it is done and I have no particular opinion on it good bad or indifferent. My point is that horses are subjected to various practices against their will and this is generally accepted and 'approved' but a clown sits on a dead horse (which again was wrong) and everyone loses their freakin minds as if it that is way beyond the pale compared to what living horses are subjected to.

I just think we are all hypocrites.

Breeding and stud farms are vast money making enterprises and it is done for profit. Lads standing around waiting for the stallion to mount and hoping the investment will pay off i.e. make money in the future is not a contentious scene to paint. That may be an uncomfortable grubby picture for some but that is the reality and a picture anyone in the industry will recognise. I have stood there myself and watched it in the flesh.

I says

Silly Gilly wrote: »

There are nice characters here on the Racing forum. Blame everyone else but the perpetrator of the act. Throw in a little xenophobia from Tom and top it off with an admitting of animal cruelty from Robbo.

Some boys!

Read back my previous posts regarding what Elliot did and how I feel about it. It was wrong on so many levels and beyond the pale. The pitchfork brigade who you appear to take umbrage to my remark are the the very people preaching mental health and be kind virtue signalling, are the ones tearing strips of Elliot. He has messed up on so many levels it’s ultimately him in the cold light of day that’ll have to reflect on that episode for the rest of his life.

Shemale

tipptom wrote: »

I dont see pet dogs or grannies housed with the Zebras in the zoo

Horses are bred for racing,they are not domestic pets,whats a Zebra doing in Dublin?

Bred for the purpose of making money, like a race horse

The Tetrarch

partyguinness wrote: »

Breeding and stud farms are vast money making enterprises and it is done for profit. Lads standing around waiting for the stallion to mount and hoping the investment will pay off i.e. make money in the future is not a contentious scene to paint. That may be an uncomfortable grubby picture for some but that is the reality and a picture anyone in the industry will recognise. I have stood there myself and watched it in the flesh.

Again you are painting a picture that is not reality.
I am a small scale breeder with two mares, and a yearling.
If you read my earlier post I said I spent about 60k on breeding and received 2k.
And I gave details of 450+ yearlings bought at auction where the average loss per horse was about 45k.
That is the usual financial outcome for owners - constant expenses.

The bigger stallion stud farms make money from stallion fees.
The stud farms that board mares for owners make a little money (I can not put my three thoroughbreds in my back garden so they are boarded out in Co Tipperary).
I have never gone to watch a mare of mine being covered by a stallion.
Two of my mares went to France about ten days ago, one was covered yesterday, the other not yet covered.
Why would I want to go to France to see my mares covered?
Last year one mare was in France for almost three months, visited the sire a few times, and did not get pregnant.

You say "Lads standing around waiting for the stallion to mount and hoping the investment will pay off i.e. make money in the future is not a contentious scene to paint. That may be an uncomfortable grubby picture for some but that is the reality ".
It is not the reality. If you like I will check with the stud where my mares are boarded and ask do the other mare owners travel to see their mare covered by the stallion.
It did not happen pre-Covid 19, and with the travel restrictions in place during Covid-19 owners would be breaking travel restrictions.

The Tetrarch

A little more detail about my non-attendance at my mares being covered by stallions. In three years it was about 13 or 14 coverings (one mare failed to get pregnant for two years). My attendance was 0.

Muahahaha

The Tetrarch wrote: »

A little more detail about my non-attendance at my mares being covered by stallions. In three years it was about 13 or 14 coverings (one mare failed to get pregnant for two years). My attendance was 0.

Just out of interest how does a breeder know if the mare has been covered by the stallion that was advertised. Like is it the norm in breeding that when the foal arrives you then get DNA tests to make sure or are breeders just putting all their trust in the stud? Has there ever been cases where the a different stallion was used and it came out later?

partyguinness

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Again you are painting a picture that is not reality.
I am a small scale breeder with two mares, and a yearling.
If you read my earlier post I said I spent about 60k on breeding and received 2k.
And I gave details of 450+ yearlings bought at auction where the average loss per horse was about 45k.
That is the usual financial outcome for owners - constant expenses.

The bigger stallion stud farms make money from stallion fees.
The stud farms that board mares for owners make a little money (I can not put my three thoroughbreds in my back garden so they are boarded out in Co Tipperary).
I have never gone to watch a mare of mine being covered by a stallion.
Two of my mares went to France about ten days ago, one was covered yesterday, the other not yet covered.
Why would I want to go to France to see my mares covered?
Last year one mare was in France for almost three months, visited the sire a few times, and did not get pregnant.

You say "Lads standing around waiting for the stallion to mount and hoping the investment will pay off i.e. make money in the future is not a contentious scene to paint. That may be an uncomfortable grubby picture for some but that is the reality ".
It is not the reality. If you like I will check with the stud where my mares are boarded and ask do the other mare owners travel to see their mare covered by the stallion.
It did not happen pre-Covid 19, and with the travel restrictions in place during Covid-19 owners would be breaking travel restrictions.

It is a reality. It may not be your reality but it does happen. I have seen it with my own two eyes. I am not picking an arguement here just saying that breeding is big business. Not for everyone granted but it is still a business/industry.

As you said you are a small breeder which is perhaps not overly appropriate when we are taking about the world the likes of Elliott reside (yes I know he is not a breeder himself but you get the drift).

The Tetrarch

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Again you are painting a picture that is not reality.
I am a small scale breeder with two mares, and a yearling.
If you read my earlier post I said I spent about 60k on breeding and received 2k.
And I gave details of 450+ yearlings bought at auction where the average loss per horse was about 45k.
That is the usual financial outcome for owners - constant expenses.

The bigger stallion stud farms make money from stallion fees.
The stud farms that board mares for owners make a little money (I can not put my three thoroughbreds in my back garden so they are boarded out in Co Tipperary).
I have never gone to watch a mare of mine being covered by a stallion.
Two of my mares went to France about ten days ago, one was covered yesterday, the other not yet covered.
Why would I want to go to France to see my mares covered?
Last year one mare was in France for almost three months, visited the sire a few times, and did not get pregnant.

You say "Lads standing around waiting for the stallion to mount and hoping the investment will pay off i.e. make money in the future is not a contentious scene to paint. That may be an uncomfortable grubby picture for some but that is the reality ".
It is not the reality. If you like I will check with the stud where my mares are boarded and ask do the other mare owners travel to see their mare covered by the stallion.
It did not happen pre-Covid 19, and with the travel restrictions in place during Covid-19 owners would be breaking travel restrictions.

I do not agree with the other posters perspective, but does arguing that people don't even make money from it not make it worse?