Gordon Elliott

Shemale

The Tetrarch wrote: »

As I suggested in post 532, the IHRB would use Rule 272.
I expect a thank you from them for helping them out.

Dick move

Shemale

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m not into horses nor horse racing, but I’m bemused by this whole event.

It is my understanding that the horse died of natural causes, and that there is no suggestion of ill treatment whilst alive. In fact, I read that GE’s facility is excellent and the animals well cared for, So this guy is being publicly flogged, punished, his reputation irrevocably tarnished, his staff’s livelihood put in jeopardy, because of a picture of him sitting on a dead horse? How can that be?

What about the pictures on the panorama special on that Dubai guy’s daughter, or the Saudi Arabian Prince who the CIA said ordered the butchering of an innocent journalist? I see he recently sponsored the richest horse race on the planet, it’s not ok to sit on a dead horse, but the raving authorities have to problem with crimes against humans?

Sure you aren't

Muahahaha

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Why no artificial insemination?
There are advocates of it: mares does not have to travel; less risk of infection; and probably loads of other reasons.
I am against it, not because I want to be standing around gawking at a stallion and mare mating as another poster fantasised, but because it would allow unlimited covering by a stallion.
The advocates say you can put limits in place to stop that.
For a long time the limit was 40 mares a year for a stallion. Now some cover 250+ mares.
Many stallions "shuttle" to Australia, New Zealand, South America to continue the good work in the southern hemisphere breeding season. This started in the 1970/80s and is now standard.

The stallion farms compete against each other for business.
They will push to increase the business for their stallion, and in time break the limits, and reduce the variety in the breed.
Believe me, we do not need less variety in the breed.
In my data Northern Dancer (1961) produced 519 offspring ("children"); 19,159 grand-children; 95,190 great-grandchildren.
How can Northern Dancer have so many descendants? 198 of his sons went to stud as sires (in my data).

In 2021 the Jockey Club in the USA limited stallions to 140 mares a season.
Now a group of USA stallion farms have banded together to try to have that overturned in court.

Wow that is something else and even the idea of a stallion covering 250+ mares a year is huge numbers. I wonder though the more they cover do the stud fees achievable go down? Like if a stallion like Gaileo covered 1,000 mares over a 4 or 5 year period would his stud price go down? Kind of like a successful living artist, if they keep making more paintings they can end up devaluing the prices for previous ones sold.

The Mig wrote: »

Think it’s fair myself

Think it is fair too. 3 months would have been criticised as too short, 12 months as too long so 6 months is the proverbial Goldilocks 'just right'

Shemale

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Good statement from Gordon

The only drawback is he doesn’t address the other rumoured awful photos/videos

That could come back hard on him

Its from a PR company and you can't reply on twitter either.

Why address a rumour? "And I also deny I have four legs and am in a relationship with Angelina Jolie"

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m not into horses nor horse racing, but I’m bemused by this whole event.

It is my understanding that the horse died of natural causes, and that there is no suggestion of ill treatment whilst alive. In fact, I read that GE’s facility is excellent and the animals well cared for, So this guy is being publicly flogged, punished, his reputation irrevocably tarnished, his staff’s livelihood put in jeopardy, because of a picture of him sitting on a dead horse? How can that be?

What if, a member of the Garda Mounted Unit had the same photo taken on one of their dead horses?

Shemale

Muahahaha wrote: »

Wow that is something else and even the idea of a stallion covering 250+ mares a year is huge numbers. I wonder though the more they cover do the stud fees achievable go down? '

Northern Dancers fee in 1982 was over $1M (IIRC) without guarantee of a live foal.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

What if, a member of the Garda Mounted Unit had the same photo taken on one of their dead horses?

Should I be outraged? Was the horse mistreated in someway by the photo being taken?

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Should I be outraged? Was the horse mistreated in someway by the photo being taken?

You don't think there would be outrage?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

You don't think there would be outrage?

Should the Garda be suspended for 6 months?

kravmaga

So barred from racing for 6 months and 15k costs fine.

They say the photo is 2 yrs old or more, so I take from this that someone kept the photo and just release it to media for all and sundry to see.

Sounds like a disgruntled employee who had it in for Elliot.

Wanted to bury him, the person that took the photo may have shared it with someone else in the stables.

I am still shocked that Elliot would be so naive to think that the photo would never be made public at some stage in the future, not the sharpest tool in the box imo.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/2021/0305/1201173-elliott-barred-from-racing-for-six-months-and-fined/

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

Should the Garda be suspended for 6 months?

I'm pretty sure he would be, and that would be while the investigation was taking place.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he would be, and that would be while the investigation was taking place.

It’s a crazy world. I could understand the outrage if the person was mistreating an animal while alive, but dead? Gimme a break. That horse probably had a saddle on it a few minutes earlier, presumably someone was sitting on it.

KaneToad

Andrew00 wrote: »

Kate

Subtle.

odyssey06

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s a crazy world. I could understand the outrage if the person was mistreating an animal while alive, but dead? Gimme a break.

Can you mis-treat anything that's dead?

You're in a role that relies on sponsorship and patronage.
Don't make yourself toxic.

GE made himself toxic by his actions.
Horse racing had to sanction him to contain to toxicity.
Zero sympathy here.

kravmaga

bubblypop wrote: »

What if, a member of the Garda Mounted Unit had the same photo taken on one of their dead horses?

Well I presume a complaint would be made to GSOC, or Garda senior Management in the Depot.

Member suspended , pending results of investigation, member terminated from force, gross misconduct or other breach's of AGS internal regulations/procedures.

Regulation 39 of the Garda Síochána (Discipline) Regulations, 2007.

crossman47

kravmaga wrote: »

Well I presume a complaint would be made to GSOC, or Garda senior Management in the Depot.

Member suspended , pending results of investigation, member terminated from force, gross misconduct or other breach's of AGS internal regulations/procedures.

Regulation 39 of the Garda Síochána (Discipline) Regulations, 2007.

That would be equally disproportionate.

YFlyer

fryup wrote: »

well that's up to a certain scorned lady

His ex?

lemush

PCeeeee wrote: »

I've seen a video of the bar. But in fairness how do we know when it was? There is no way to date what I seen at least.

The bar video is over a year old.

zimmermania

The White Wolf wrote: »

6 months is long enough to leave his Stable in dire straits so the punishment is enough.

The stable will be run in the same manner as before,i think the punishment was too severe,the horse was dead,the clowning around was in bad taste but no more than that.

Those involved in doping sometimes get treated very leniently and those stopping horses are not dealt with at all.

An army of handicappers from ireland will reappear at Cheltenham having been beaten out of sight in their last couple of runs and run stones above their recent form as they usually do.

Elliot was contrite because he was in danger of losing more owners and if this little country was not so small perhaps he would have went in with a sharp senior council to argue his case and threaten that he would be seeking a high court injunction to prevent the taking away of his licence on the grounds that the punishment was too severe and nothin illegal happened.

But of course he then would be a marked man so on balance he decided to plea bargain and accept the ban and let things die down.

realdanbreen

I hope he bounces back bigger and better than before.

Omar Devone Little

realdanbreen wrote: »

I hope he bounces back bigger and better than before.

Bigger?

Not sure he can get much bigger tbf.

Big lump of a head on him.

Itziger

zimmermania wrote: »

The stable will be run in the same manner as before,i think the punishment was too severe,the horse was dead,the clowning around was in bad taste but no more than that.

Those involved in doping sometimes get treated very leniently and those stopping horses are not dealt with at all.

An army of handicappers from ireland will reappear at Cheltenham having been beaten out of sight in their last couple of runs and run stones above their recent form as they usually do.

Elliot was contrite because he was in danger of losing more owners and if this little country was not so small perhaps he would have went in with a sharp senior council to argue his case and threaten that he would be seeking a high court injunction to prevent the taking away of his licence on the grounds that the punishment was too severe and nothin illegal happened.

But of course he then would be a marked man so on balance he decided to plea bargain and accept the ban and let things die down.

Christ on a bike, if I see that line one more time. Yes, we know that the horse was dead, I think that's been established. He's not being charged with 'sitting on a dead horse', he's being charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. What part of that don't you understand?

Sponsors, advertising, Govt backing.......... Horse racing needs these things. We're agreed on that, right? And at least some of them don't like what they saw or have to say that they don't like what they saw.

curioser

Twelve months with six months suspended. Does this mean that if he is not photographed sitting on another dead horse for six months he doesn't have to serve the second six months?

Very severe, particularly, as I observed before, when compared to the six months handed down to Charles Byrnes for a much more serious offence, in which the authorities don't even appear to have established who instructed Byrnes Senior and Junior to leave the horse unattended. (Apologies for going off topic.)

realdanbreen

Itziger wrote: »

Christ on a bike, if I see that line one more time. Yes, we know that the horse was dead, I think that's been established. He's not being charged with 'sitting on a dead horse', he's being charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. What part of that don't you understand?

Sponsors, advertising, Govt backing.......... Horse racing needs these things. We're agreed on that, right? And at least some of them don't like what they saw or have to say that they don't like what they saw.

You sound so wound up that I'd say you'd spook a horse if you came within a 100 yards of one!

Andalucia

Denise Foster taking over Cullentra for the 6 months

realdanbreen

Andalucia wrote: »

Denise Foster taking over Cullentra for the 6 months

No better woman, gwan Sneezy!

Itziger

realdanbreen wrote: »

You sound so wound up that I'd say you'd spook a horse if you came within a 100 yards of one!

In keeping with your posts on this thread, Dan. #Consistent Breen.

zpehtsfd

Andalucia wrote: »

Denise Foster taking over Cullentra for the 6 months

Now that's an inspired pick. Fair play to whoever got that in motion.

zimmermania

Itziger wrote: »

Christ on a bike, if I see that line one more time. Yes, we know that the horse was dead, I think that's been established. He's not being charged with 'sitting on a dead horse', he's being charged with bringing the sport into disrepute. What part of that don't you understand?

Sponsors, advertising, Govt backing.......... Horse racing needs these things. We're agreed on that, right? And at least some of them don't like what they saw or have to say that they don't like what they saw.

"CHRIST ON A BIKE"do you think that infantile nonsense makes you seem smart?

What part of what i said don't you understand?,i know what he was charged with and trainers break much more serious rules and are not charged with anything.

cson

zimmermania wrote: »

The stable will be run in the same manner as before,i think the punishment was too severe,the horse was dead,the clowning around was in bad taste but no more than that.

Those involved in doping sometimes get treated very leniently and those stopping horses are not dealt with at all.

An army of handicappers from ireland will reappear at Cheltenham having been beaten out of sight in their last couple of runs and run stones above their recent form as they usually do.

Elliot was contrite because he was in danger of losing more owners and if this little country was not so small perhaps he would have went in with a sharp senior council to argue his case and threaten that he would be seeking a high court injunction to prevent the taking away of his licence on the grounds that the punishment was too severe and nothin illegal happened.

But of course he then would be a marked man so on balance he decided to plea bargain and accept the ban and let things die down.

That's the sourest thing about it.

It's all performance theatre to satiate the social media masses.

The demand for outrage far outstrips the supply.

The Rooster

YFlyer wrote: »

His ex?

No! Beware of what you read on the internet!

It was a bloke who released the pic and other damaging rumours. Someone with an axe to grind with GE. He used a Twitter account with ‘scorned’ in the title saying it was a scorned ex of GE. Only a moron would think that it was the actual gf who set up a Twitter account called scorned gf!
But some did and are spreading it around solid, including a few on here.

Andalucia

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Now that's an inspired pick. Fair play to whoever got that in motion.

I was only saying the other day she had a real chance of winning the Trimuph

realdanbreen

cson wrote: »

That's the sourest thing about it.

It's all performance theatre to satiate the social media masses.

The demand for outrage far outstrips the supply.

Now that it's done and dusted most of the outraged newbies to horse racing forums will up sticks and move on to get outraged over Meghan Markle or something.

chinguetti

I think he got lucky with the level of the fine and the 6 month ban but i was asked today what he'd get and said 6 months and €25k fine so not far off it so no real surprise. Irish racing isn't that surprising on the ban levels from past affairs. I'm assuming that he is living at the stables so he can still give advice to Foster on horses so its not a real strong ban in the sense that people think it is, there's work arounds on it.

Still can't believe that he was that innocent to let himself get in that position in the first place, seems like he thought he could get away with anything and I include some of the rumours that have been doing the rounds for the last week. The bit about 'sinister aspects' in the statement from IHRB is pointed to me, mentions what everyone has heard about rumours and in case more comes out. it covers their back.

He has seriously damaged his name and that will be thrown at him forever more, sponsors will ignore him and i would guess some owners will quietly take their horses away in the summer.

Itziger

zimmermania wrote: »

"CHRIST ON A BIKE"do you think that infantile nonsense makes you seem smart?

What part of what i said don't you understand?,i know what he was charged with and trainers break much more serious rules and are not charged with anything.

It's the likes of you and DanB who refuse to see how the tide is moving. "Those stopping horses are not dealt with at all" you write. Hehe, do you not see that no-one other than a few mug punters gives a flying fook about some loser stopping horses in a 4,000euro handicap in Clonmel?

But the CEO of a company sponsoring horse racing - which would hardly survive without Govt and corporate money - does not want to see one of the leading lights of the sport, the top man in Ireland's second best/biggest NH operation doing what Gordon did.

Maybe you don't understand that; I don't know (and I don't care) but that is what he's being punished for.

realdanbreen

chinguetti wrote: »

I think he got lucky with the level of the fine and the 6 month ban but i was asked today what he'd get and said 6 months and €25k fine so not far off it so no real surprise. Irish racing isn't that surprising on the ban levels from past affairs. I'm assuming that he is living at the stables so he can still give advice to Foster on horses so its not a real strong ban in the sense that people think it is, there's work arounds on it.

Still can't believe that he was that innocent to let himself get in that position in the first place, seems like he thought he could get away with anything and I include some of the rumours that have been doing the rounds for the last week. The bit about 'sinister aspects' in the statement from IHRB is pointed to me, mentions what everyone has heard about rumours and in case more comes out. it covers their back.

He has seriously damaged his name and that will be thrown at him forever more, sponsors will ignore him and i would guess some owners will quietly take their horses away in the summer.

You sound a bit disappointed, were you about to book your seat in front of the gallows?

odyssey06

People seem to be living in some parallel universe where horse racing isn't dependent on sponsorship and patronage.

GE made himself toxic to the sectors that provide that funding.

Inevitable consequences have followed.

Plasandrunt

https://www.theirishfield.ie/news-denise-foster-tipped-to-replace-gordon-elliott-607124/

Sneezy

chinguetti

realdanbreen wrote: »

You sound a bit disappointed, were you about to book your seat in front of the gallows?

No, don't think that anyone should be hanged for mistakes they make, no one's perfect but just that this will have a long term effect on funding (government/sponsors/racecourses etc.) for horse racing that will be played out over the next few years and that photo will be used over and over again in any agrument. That's all.

realdanbreen

Itziger wrote: »

It's the likes of you and DanB who refuse to see how the tide is moving. "Those stopping horses are not dealt with at all" you write. Hehe, do you not see that no-one other than a few mug punters gives a flying fook about some loser stopping horses in a 4,000euro handicap in Clonmel?

But the CEO of a company sponsoring horse racing - which would hardly survive without Govt and corporate money - does not want to see one of the leading lights of the sport, the top man in Ireland's second best/biggest NH operation doing what Gordon did.

Maybe you don't understand that; I don't know (and I don't care) but that is what he's being punished for.

I might be able to put you in touch with some of those " losers stopping horses in Clonmel " if you wish. They might have a little something that would calm you down a bit.

Slattsy

Very harsh that. Thought a fine would be sufficient. I'll certainly think twice about sitting on a dead horse again that's for sure.

Anyway, I'm off elephant hunting in South Africa in a few months. Can't wait. Anyone want anything back from duty free?

themandan6611

Slattsy wrote: »

Anyway, I'm off elephant hunting in South Africa in a few months. Can't wait. Anyone want anything back from duty free?

Could i get a few people to clean my house please, they are 3 for 2 @ Kroger Co

Panrich

zpehtsfd wrote: »

Now that's an inspired pick. Fair play to whoever got that in motion.

She sounds like a good horsewoman but surely it's only a name on the racecard. Elliott will still be training the horses in all but name.

realdanbreen

Panrich wrote: »

She sounds like a good horsewoman but surely it's only a name on the racecard. Elliott will still be training the horses in all but name.

Gordon Elliott will not be attending race meetings or point to points during his term of suspension. He volunteered that as attending meetings is not covered in the suspension. Apart from that I'm not sure what you were expecting or hoping to happen.

NaiveMelodies

Not surprised by the outcome because of the need to protect the image of the sport in todays world.
However, the biggest names in the sport are on record making comments that pretty much affirm how desensitized people in racing are when horses die.
These names include Willie Mullins, Ted Walsh, and Nicky Henderson.

Make no mistake about it, had this photo been leaked in June, this thread would be at most 5 pages long. Gordon Elliot would probably have been 5/1 to get any sort of a ban.
We are conditioned to react to incidents like these based on how mainstream social media reacts.

I like horses. They are amazing animals to witness up close and spend time with.
But, I know the real thrill comes from the racing of horses, the storylines these races bring, and of course gambling on them. The existence of horse racing is because of these factors.

Gordon Elliott is someone who could have existed in any decade in the last century and still followed the same successful path as a horse trainer. He could of sat on a dead horse in most of those decades and got away with it. He simply existed in the wrong decade and the photo was published at the wrong time, and as a result has paid for it.
I never actually have had much time for him and have heard plenty of bad reports from him in terms of small owner-trainer interaction, but I firmly believe most of those large scale owners who see through bullsh*t will support him and he'll be back banging out the winners under his own name in 6 months time.

zimmermania

Itziger wrote: »

It's the likes of you and DanB who refuse to see how the tide is moving. "Those stopping horses are not dealt with at all" you write. Hehe, do you not see that no-one other than a few mug punters gives a flying fook about some loser stopping horses in a 4,000euro handicap in Clonmel?

But the CEO of a company sponsoring horse racing - which would hardly survive without Govt and corporate money - does not want to see one of the leading lights of the sport, the top man in Ireland's second best/biggest NH operation doing what Gordon did.

Maybe you don't understand that; I don't know (and I don't care) but that is what he's being punished for.

Sweeping statements with no evidence to support them!,how do you know that" no-one other than a few mug punters gives (sic) a flying fook about some loser stopping horses in a 4000 euro handicap in Clonmel"?

Then in typical arrogant fashion you suggest maybe i don't understand what this is all about but you do!!!.

Whether one believes Elliot's punishment was too severe or too lenient,you should get it into your head that is simply an opinion and we all have a right to hold an opinion and to put it simply my opinion is that Elliot's childish behaviour did not hurt any animal,did not cause any punter (mug or otherwise) to lose money and the punishment did not fit the crime.

I remain convinced that if the case was tried in a court of law Elliot would be given a slap on the wrist.

You may not agree with that view and that is your right,but i won't insult you by saying you do not understand what this is all about even if i believe that is the case.

dickdasr1234

chinguetti wrote: »

No, don't think that anyone should be hanged for mistakes they make, no one's perfect but just that this will have a long term effect on funding (government/sponsors/racecourses etc.) for horse racing that will be played out over the next few years and that photo will be used over and over again in any agrument. That's all.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like nobody could possibly vote Fianna Fail ever again, or eat turkey for Christmas ever again. Two weeks. Not another mention. Ever again.


Think goldfish!

Edgware

chinguetti wrote: »

I think he got lucky with the level of the fine and the 6 month ban but i was asked today what he'd get and said 6 months and €25k fine so not far off it so no real surprise. Irish racing isn't that surprising on the ban levels from past affairs. I'm assuming that he is living at the stables so he can still give advice to Foster on horses so its not a real strong ban in the sense that people think it is, there's work arounds on it.

Still can't believe that he was that innocent to let himself get in that position in the first place, seems like he thought he could get away with anything and I include some of the rumours that have been doing the rounds for the last week. The bit about 'sinister aspects' in the statement from IHRB is pointed to me, mentions what everyone has heard about rumours and in case more comes out. it covers their back.

He has seriously damaged his name and that will be thrown at him forever more, sponsors will ignore him and i would guess some owners will quietly take their horses away in the summer.

When thiis blows over by Autumn and reasonable people will accept that he has been punished enough Gordon will start to build back his reputation. The man that never made a mistake never made anything. The loser keyboard warriors will continue posting uninformed ****e from their lonely boxroom but by then they will have the latest one day wonder to concentrate on. Maybe a member of the Royal family will be caught offside with some soap opera star or Maktoum will release his daughters from captivity

nsnoefc1878

Allinall wrote: »

What in the name of all that's holy does that mean?

People sit on live horses all the time and the horses don't feel the need to "defend themselves".

I've asked before and am still waiting on an answer-

How can you disrespect a dead animal?

Can you disrespect a table? or a tin of dog food?

Mod edit

nsnoefc1878

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

From talking to someone close to his yard the bar photos/videos are definitely out there. Numerous photos numerous ppl received them.

The cattle prod one I don’t know either way.

There’s others rumoured as well but won’t be spreading them until we know more

I've seen a video of the bar from a very good source.