Gordon Elliott

tabby aspreme

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Good old Tracy, haven't seen much of her in ages.

I remember back in 1993 when I was a young lad only starting out in employment as a postman. Delivering to her fancy gaff in Killiney on a bright Summer morning, she was in the garden and I thought I'd use some charm so asked her had she any tips ?

She kindly told me if I wanted any tips to " buy a ****ing newspaper "

She works for Jessie Harrington now

realdanbreen

tabby aspreme wrote: »

She works for Jessie Harrington now

The plot thickens .

EICVD

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Good old Tracy, haven't seen much of her in ages.

I remember back in 1993 when I was a young lad only starting out in employment as a postman. Delivering to her fancy gaff in Killiney on a bright Summer morning, she was in the garden and I thought I'd use some charm so asked her had she any tips ?

She kindly told me if I wanted any tips to " buy a ****ing newspaper "

Like father like daughter

MacDanger

That's very poor taste from GE imo, I'm from a dairy farm and I've seen plenty of dead animals who could by lying around for a day or two waiting to be collected but I've never seen anyone sitting on one in that manner. Not sure there should be any official sanction on him though as he hasn't really done anything wrong. If I had a horse with him though, I'd be none too happy

Fromvert

If you're a sport that has a large and vocal group of detractors you need to be as squeaky clean as you can be. And when your response to that criticism or cruelty is we all love and care for these horses and then pictures come out like this you're going to get hammered for it and they need to actually punish him with something substantial.

Horse racing has lots of people that do care for the horses but there is a large enough group of chancers, degenerates, people that don't particularly care for the horses etc. involved in horse racing that will always take away from any good that is done.

I'm a horse racing fan (don't post about it much though) but if they don't hammer him for this I'll be pissed off. If they drag their feet and let Cheltenham, Aintree and Punchestown pass before doing anything then **** them. 

The horse racing industry gets millions every year from the tax payers and if enough people contact local officials or are vocal about this the government will be forced to step in and then who knows how it goes from there. They need to show that the industry does not stand for this or risk losing the control they have.

bit of a bogey

I think Gigginstown spoke too soon. I understand they want to support Elliott but they would have been better off staying stum for the time being.

IHRB will have to sanction quickly as they know the BHA will take a harsher approach. Will be another PR disaster if they delay the outcome of the investigation and force the BHA to take action of their own. BHA have already commented which is highly unusual but which shows the disgust.

If the IHRB dont conclude quickly, the BHA will ban Elliott's horses from Cheltenham and either Gigginstown wont have any runners or else they'll be forced to backtrack.

It is in everyone's interest that the IHRB state something substantial within the next week rather than stating the investigation in ongoing and pending.

dickdasr1234

I worked in a racing yard many moons ago and my prevailing sense of that experience is the respect accorded to the animals. They were not mollycoddled. They worked to earn their corn.

I have seen showjumpers abused during schooling but never a racehorse. The balance is too delicate in the battle of wills/minds. Abuse of a highly-strung thoroughbred could not have a good outcome.

This picture (which is more open to interpretation than many here are willing to acknowledge) reflects a harsh reality that casualties occur in the course of the training process. It is also reflective of a childish response to such an occurrence.

That this should photo should be taken as proof positive that racehorses are abused as a matter of course is, to me, utterly ridiculous.

Equally, the calls for Elliott to be banned are ridiculous.

There is no evidence of abuse or cruelty, merely a naivety in allowing such a photo to be taken and retained.

Which of us has not had a moment in our lives which, if recorded and publicly broadcast, would not have severely damaged one's reputation?

That he has brought the game into disrepute is beyond argument. The appropriate penalty would be a substantial financial slap on the wrist.

two wheels good

curioser wrote: »

Feel sorry for the person in the Dept of Ag who has to brief their Minister for the Dail tomorrow, and has to run it by the Green Minister of State. The backbench Greens will be screaming for blood, egged on by the usual suspects on the left. If this goes politically rabid the IHRB will be railroaded into making a speedy decision that won't be favourable to GE, whatever the rights or wrongs of the issue.

Within the horse racing and owning community the condemnation has been emphatic and widespread all day.
Why would you speculate about politicians who haven't made any comment on the matter so far? I doubt they will feel the need to comment. Lets wait a few days and see who's right.

Augme

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

I

That he has brought the game into disrepute is beyond argument. The appropriate penalty would be a substantial financial slap on the wrist.

For a outfit like Elliot's I'd be amazed if that is even possible according to their rules.

jakiah

The Tetrarch wrote: »

A warm welcome to out new Horse Racing fans
nsnoefc1878; jakiah; LollipopJimmy; JibJabWibWab

Any new posts by the above will abide by the Forum Charter.

Im not a new Horse Racing fan, Ive been following the sport for years. I signed up to discuss this incident because it interests me and its a big story in racing. Discussing Horse Racing is what this public forum is for is it not? Your aggressively attacking people on here is frankly weird.

two wheels good wrote: »

Within the horse racing and owning community the condemnation has been emphatic and widespread all day.

Good to hear, have any other trainers condemned this unequivocally?

dickdasr1234

Augme wrote: »

For a outfit like Elliot's I'd be amazed if that is even possible according to their rules.

Irish Times 09/01/2003
"... The two other trainers featured on the programme - Ferdy Murphy and Jamie Osborne - were each fined £4,000 for acting in a manner prejudicial to the good reputation of horse racing."

If the Brits can do it...

Yurt2

I think some of the responses in this thread are rather unfortunate. I'll start by saying that I'm aware that the vast majority in the horse racing industry treat their animals with care and respect.

That said, some of the responses here seem to reflect a view that people outside the industry should have nothing to say about this incident and that outsiders don't understand.

Horses are generally loved creatures in both Irish and British culture, so when people are upset at seeing someone gurning on the carcass of a beautiful animal, maybe those being reflexively defensive should listen.

It should not be forgotten that the industry is supported in various ways by tax breaks and grants from the Dep of Agriculture and that the greyhound industry is busy digging its own grave by turning a tin-ear to legitimate animal welfare concerns.

Knowing people working in breeding and the industry generally, I'm aware that standards are a great deal higher with horse racing generally. If I was a stakeholder, I'd be making it very clear that the picture is unacceptable.

jakiah

Yurt! wrote: »

I think some of the responses in this thread are rather unfortunate. I'll start by saying that I'm aware that the vast majority in the horse racing industry treat their animals with care and respect.

That said, some of the responses here seem to reflect a view that people outside the industry should have nothing to say about this incident and that outsiders don't understand.

Important to note that its only some responses. Plenty of us are racing fans and find this abhorrent. Others seem more intent on attacking other racing fans without a word of condemnation of Elliots actions themselves.

Hopefully the racing boards will act swiftly and decisively on this to protect the sport.

The Tetrarch

jakiah wrote: »

Im not a new Horse Racing fan, Ive been following the sport for years. I signed up to discuss this incident because it interests me and its a big story in racing. Discussing Horse Racing is what this public forum is for is it not? Your aggressively attacking people on here is frankly weird.

jakiah wrote: »

If you cant see why posing sitting gurning for a jokey picture on the carcass of an animal you've just worked to death for sport wouldn't be perceived as cruel, then I don't know what to tell you.

You posted a comment that was controversial, inflammatory.
I asked you had you any evidence to support your comment.
Coming along now saying you signed up to "discuss" it because it "interests" you is a welcome change of style.

You seem to have missed reading this part of The Forum Charter
Flaming
Posts containing personal attacks on another user will be edited/deleted.

I says

Yurt! wrote: »

I think some of the responses in this thread are rather unfortunate. I'll start by saying that I'm aware that the vast majority in the horse racing industry treat their animals with care and respect.

That said, some of the responses here seem to reflect a view that people outside the industry should have nothing to say about this incident and that outsiders don't understand.

Horses are generally loved creatures in both Irish and British culture, so when people are upset at seeing someone gurning on the carcass of a beautiful animal, maybe those being reflexively defensive should listen.

It should not be forgotten that the industry is supported in various ways by tax breaks and grants from the Dep of Agriculture and that the greyhound industry is busy digging its own grave by turning a tin-ear to legitimate animal welfare concerns.

Knowing people working in breeding and the industry generally, I'm aware that standards are a great deal higher with horse racing generally. If I was a stakeholder, I'd be making it very clear that the picture is unacceptable.

The greyhound industry is doing a good job repairing its reputational damage. Plenty been done the usual few bad apples have it ruined. No more than Elliot the gobsheen, an idiot who compounded it by his attempt at an apology.

Doctors room ghost

“Horse racing Ireland begin disciplinary action against Gordon Elliott” according to the wireless

Yurt2

jakiah wrote: »

Important to note that its only some responses. Plenty of us are racing fans and find this abhorrent. Others seem more intent on attacking other racing fans without a word of condemnation of Elliots actions themselves.

Hopefully the racing boards will act swiftly and decisively on this to protect the sport.

I'd acknowledge that. A pal of mine who has worked on the periphery of the horse racing industry all his life and has deep love for the animals was raging with this on a group Whatsapp earlier.

fawlty682

The BHA will be delighted to ban him from Cheltenham. Perfect timing. Some vindictive employee obviously. Flogging a dead horse!

jakiah

The Tetrarch wrote: »

You posted a comment that was controversial, inflammatory.
I asked you had you any evidence to support your comment.
Coming along now saying you signed up to "discuss" it because it "interests" you is a welcome change of style.

You seem to have missed reading this part of The Forum Charter
Flaming
Posts containing personal attacks on another user will be edited/deleted.

You are making a right fool of yourself here. If you want this forum to be a closed shop then mark it private. Otherwise jog on. Ive not been sanctioned or carded here at all. I stand over all my posts. Elliot worked the horse, it died, then he sat on it for the craic and posed for a picture. Those are the facts.

Not a single word of condemnation from you for Elliots carry on either, you are too busy trying to goad users into saying something you can ban them for. Spare us the moral outrage about violating your charter.

Anniepowaaa

envoi allen too de bromhead and quixillios to mullins is what im hearing

Shelby Foote

If a fella at a halting site was sitting on a dead horse posing like that you might make up some excuses for him, like lack of education etc.

When a top race horse trainer like Elliott poses on a dead horse and allows himself to be photographed the only conclusions are he's boorish, a thick **** and despite being good at training horses his IQ isn't the best and there's not a lot going on upstairs.

Yo won't find Willie Mullins doing something like that.

Labaik

mirwillbeback wrote: »

Good old Tracy, haven't seen much of her in ages.

I remember back in 1993 when I was a young lad only starting out in employment as a postman. Delivering to her fancy gaff in Killiney on a bright Summer morning, she was in the garden and I thought I'd use some charm so asked her had she any tips ?

She kindly told me if I wanted any tips to " buy a ****ing newspaper "

Should have told her only if your on page 3.

RobertKK

I see the picture and I read the horse died of a heart attack.
I assume the horse was disposed of in a proper manner.
People eat horse meat, but is sitting on a dead horse really something worse?
Is it disrespectful to sit on a live horse and make it jump fences or hurdles and maybe lead to it being killed from a fall?
The horse would feel nothing as it is dead but somehow it is deemed worst than what the horse had to do when alive for human pleasure.

Shelby Foote

RobertKK wrote: »

I see the picture and I read the horse died of a heart attack.
I assume the horse was disposed of in a proper manner.
People eat horse meat, but is sitting on a dead horse really something worse?
Is it disrespectful to sit on a live horse and make it jump fences or hurdles and maybe lead to it being killed from a fall?
The horse would feel nothing as it is dead but somehow it is deemed worst than what the horse had to do when alive for human pleasure.

It just feels wrong. If I had a dead farm animal the last thing I'd be inclined to do is sit on it and have someone take a photo of me on it.

Like what's that about, is it supposed to be humour? Who likes sitting on a dead carcass. Making a peace sign? It makes me question his mentality more than any respect for a dead animal. Though there is respect for any dead animal on a farm. You'd tell a child if they were poking at a dead calf with a stick to leave the poor beast alone.

cadaliac

Yurt! wrote: »

I think some of the responses in this thread are rather unfortunate. I'll start by saying that I'm aware that the vast majority in the horse racing industry treat their animals with care and respect.

That said, some of the responses here seem to reflect a view that people outside the industry should have nothing to say about this incident and that outsiders don't understand.

Horses are generally loved creatures in both Irish and British culture, so when people are upset at seeing someone gurning on the carcass of a beautiful animal, maybe those being reflexively defensive should listen.

It should not be forgotten that the industry is supported in various ways by tax breaks and grants from the Dep of Agriculture and that the greyhound industry is busy digging its own grave by turning a tin-ear to legitimate animal welfare concerns.

Knowing people working in breeding and the industry generally, I'm aware that standards are a great deal higher with horse racing generally. If I was a stakeholder, I'd be making it very clear that the picture is unacceptable.

While I agree with your post, I must say that the Greyhound industry are making changes and they value animal welfare a lot higher that the general public are led to believe.
Being a stakeholder shouldn't bias your decision either.

Yurt2

RobertKK wrote: »

I see the picture and I read the horse died of a heart attack.
I assume the horse was disposed of in a proper manner.
People eat horse meat, but is sitting on a dead horse really something worse?
Is it disrespectful to sit on a live horse and make it jump fences or hurdles and maybe lead to it being killed from a fall?
The horse would feel nothing as it is dead but somehow it is deemed worst than what the horse had to do when alive for human pleasure.

Let me know how you'd feel if someone sat on your pet dog and took selfies with a dumb across their face after it expired.

Apart from racing, horses have helped humans plough fields; have been in wars of liberty and survival with humans; transported people before smarter people than animal abusers invented the steam engine or the internal combustion engine; and have been a source of comfort and pride for millions of human owners across centuries.

They are not just an insentient resource like a barrel of oil. They are accorded respect in ancient cultures like Mongolian or Arab, or modern ones like American or our's, and with good reason.

Sorry not sorry to be saccharine, but they are not dumb animals there simply for our pleasure. 99.9% of horse owners know this and mistreatment and disrespect of them even in death is taboo for very good reason.

RobertKK

Shelby Foote wrote: »

It just feels wrong. If I had a dead farm animal the last thing I'd be inclined to do is sit on it and have someone take a photo of me on it.

Like what's that about, is it supposed to be humour? Who likes sitting on a dead carcass. Making a peace sign? It makes me question his mentality more than any respect for a dead animal. Though there is respect for any dead animal on a farm. You'd tell a child if they were poking at a dead calf with a stick to leave the poor beast alone.

The thing is you would not have been putting the farm animal into situations in its life that put the farm animal’s life intentionally in danger for human pleasure.
This is why I don’t really understand the outrage, sit on a live horse and risk that animal’s life so people can gamble and get pleasure while putting the animal’s life at risk.
Sit on a dead horse and nobody seems to care that this is not the actual worst time in the horse’s life cycle.
Not like it isn’t bad taste putting the horse’s life in danger by racing it for gamblers and horse racing fans.
I am not against horse racing per se, but I think there is a hypocrisy in the outrage, if offended by the photo, then be offended what the horse had to do when alive with a human on its back.

jakiah

cadaliac wrote: »

While I agree with your post, I must say that the Greyhound industry are making changes and they value animal welfare a lot higher that the general public are led to believe.

Cant say I follow the dogs particularly closely (I'd have gone to Shelbourne Park once in a blue moon) but this is news to me? I was under the impression that RTE doc had killed the industry stone dead as a long term prospect. What changes have they made?

RobertKK

Yurt! wrote: »

Let me know how you'd feel if someone sat on your pet dog and took selfies with a dumb across their face after it expired.

Apart from racing, horses have helped humans plough fields; have been in wars of liberty and survival with humans; transported people before smarter people than animal abusers invented the steam engine or the internal combustion engine; and have been a source of comfort and pride for millions of human owners across centuries.

They are not just an insentient resource like a barrel of oil. They are accorded respect in ancient cultures like Mongolian or Arab, or modern ones like American or our's, and with good reason.

Sorry not sorry to be saccharine, but they are not dumb animals there simply for our pleasure. 99.9% of horse owners know this and mistreatment and disrespect of them even in death is taboo for very good reason.

Did the horses have any choice what to do?

Humans have used horses, horses are very intelligent animals but what choice are these animals given by humans?
They have to do what the human wants.

I hope to see horses in the wild in the Danube Delta either later this year or next, depending if allowed to travel.
No one sitting on them alive or dead.
Just free animals.

I says

jakiah wrote: »

Cant say I follow the dogs particularly closely (I'd have gone to Shelbourne Park once in a blue moon) but this is news to me? I was under the impression that RTE doc had killed the industry stone dead as a long term prospect. What changes have they made?

They have listened to their detractors and while rehoming dogs was always done they are now more public in their efforts check out their Facebook page. It regards adopting ex racers and those that are regimes in other Eu countries. They are doing a better job at educating people to the industry. There will always be a perception that it’s all cruelty and all dogs are exported to be eaten. I can tell you we have some of the most stringent measures to protect against that in place. Leave all assumptions about it aside and look up the work that’s been done now, who knows you might adopt an ex racer sometime. Loyal friendly and very easily cared for dogs all the want is a comfy bed and a daily walk. One of the easiest breeds to mind.

The Mig

RobertKK wrote: »

Did the horses have any choice what to do?

Humans have used horses, horses are very intelligent animals but what choice are these animals given by humans?
They have to do what the human wants.

I hope to see horses in the wild in the Danube Delta either later this year or next, depending if allowed to travel.
No one sitting on them alive or dead.
Just free animals.

Horses 100% have their own minds and can refuse to do what a jockey wants them to do

RobertKK

The Mig wrote: »

Horses 100% have their own minds and can refuse to do what a jockey wants them to do

Still they will be getting a crack of the whip if not doing what the jockey wants.
They are expected to do what humans want and are trained to do it, they don’t have much of a choice.
They are not free animals to do as they please like wild horses.

Justin10

RobertKK wrote: »

Still they will be getting a crack of the whip if not doing what the jockey wants.
They are expected to do what humans want and are trained to do it, they don’t have much of a choice.
They are not free animals to do as they please like wild horses.

Jump up on a horse with a whip and see if you can get an animal that size to do what you want it to do.

Let us know how you get on.

realdanbreen

Fromvert wrote: »

If you're a sport that has a large and vocal group of detractors you need to be as squeaky clean as you can be. And when your response to that criticism or cruelty is we all love and care for these horses and then pictures come out like this you're going to get hammered for it and they need to actually punish him with something substantial.

Horse racing has lots of people that do care for the horses but there is a large enough group of chancers, degenerates, people that don't particularly care for the horses etc. involved in horse racing that will always take away from any good that is done.

I'm a horse racing fan (don't post about it much though) but if they don't hammer him for this I'll be pissed off. If they drag their feet and let Cheltenham, Aintree and Punchestown pass before doing anything then **** them. 

The horse racing industry gets millions every year from the tax payers and if enough people contact local officials or are vocal about this the government will be forced to step in and then who knows how it goes from there. They need to show that the industry does not stand for this or risk losing the control they have.

So you think one of the top trainers in Ireland and UKis a degenerate and a chance?

jakiah

RobertKK wrote: »

Did the horses have any choice what to do?

Humans have used horses, horses are very intelligent animals but what choice are these animals given by humans?
They have to do what the human wants.

I hope to see horses in the wild in the Danube Delta either later this year or next, depending if allowed to travel.
No one sitting on them alive or dead.
Just free animals.

You are in the Horse Racing forum. This is a sport which is hundreds of years old and dates from maybe less enlightened times. Everyone who follows racing is aware that the animals are commodities first and foremost. People come from backgrounds where animals are also commodified in other ways. You accept that as part of racing (for better or worse).

The outrage here stems from the idea you are sold that outside the actual racing the animal is treated well. This picture gives the lie to that idea. When I saw the doc on the greyhounds I said welp that's me done with the dogs. This is making me think twice about racing too. Its easy for me though, Im just a joe punter, the closest I get to the animal is the parade ring at Leopardstown a couple of times a year.

D9Male

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you think one of the top trainers in Ireland and UKis a degenerate and a chance?

Did you actually read his post? And if so, is that really the main thing you took from it?

jakiah

This idea that a horse has all the free will it would in a natural environment is silly. They are literally broken before they can be rode. Not saying I could go round the cross country course at Cheltenham myself now.

realdanbreen

Anniepowaaa wrote: »

envoi allen too de bromhead and quixillios to mullins is what im hearing

And you believe that's going to happen with 2 weeks to Cheltenham?

th hen

Just been announced by bha can't have any runner in uk until irish investigation over

Anniepowaaa

jakiah wrote: »

This idea that a horse has all the free will it would in a natural environment is silly. They are literally broken before they can be rode. Not saying I could go round the cross country course at Cheltenham myself now.

there are no thoroughbred horses in the wild

realdanbreen

D9Male wrote: »

Did you actually read his post? And if so, is that really the main thing you took from it?

I don't read long meandering posts but he did imply that.

Anniepowaaa

realdanbreen wrote: »

And you believe that's going to happen with 2 weeks to Cheltenham?

why not ? envoi and monkfish should not be in the same yard and sames goes for quixillios and honeysuckle

Joe_ Public

RobertKK wrote: »

Did the horses have any choice what to do?

Humans have used horses, horses are very intelligent animals but what choice are these animals given by humans?
They have to do what the human wants.

I hope to see horses in the wild in the Danube Delta either later this year or next, depending if allowed to travel.
No one sitting on them alive or dead.
Just free animals.

Thing is, though, wild feral horses in the Danube are not equivalent to the thoroughbreds that are purely bred for racing. So we are summoning a false dichotomy where it seems to be a choice between a life in a stable and on the racetrack or a free life roaming the savannah like the delta horses. In reality, its a choice between a life racing or never been born at all. There isnt really any other purpose to the thoroughbred.

Kauto

realdanbreen wrote: »

And you believe that's going to happen with 2 weeks to Cheltenham?

It's long odds on that the CP horses are gone and it's long odds on that Envoi Allen is going to De Bromhead.

realdanbreen

RobertKK wrote: »

I see the picture and I read the horse died of a heart attack.
I assume the horse was disposed of in a proper manner.
People eat horse meat, but is sitting on a dead horse really something worse?
Is it disrespectful to sit on a live horse and make it jump fences or hurdles and maybe lead to it being killed from a fall?
The horse would feel nothing as it is dead but somehow it is deemed worst than what the horse had to do when alive for human pleasure.

Look, theirs people trying to feel outraged here so no more common sense posts,,please.

famagusta

BHA have banned gordos runners until the investigation is complete, what a joke, why punish the owners??

Shemale

Is there a chance that this is the reason Gigginstown decided to leave racing in the first place?

People think the picture is 2 years old, Gigginstown decided to pull out in 2019 and now they are sticking with him as he continues to sell their remaining horses.

realdanbreen

The Mig wrote: »

Horses 100% have their own minds and can refuse to do what a jockey wants them to do

Ask Labaik !

TheMilkyPirate

realdanbreen wrote: »

And you believe that's going to happen with 2 weeks to Cheltenham?

Why wouldn't it?

CH3OH

BHA ban Gordon Elliott horses pending investigation.


Owners will be able to move horses to other trainers

BHA Statement:

https://www.britishhorseracing.com/press_releases/british-horseracing-acts-over-gordon-elliott-image/