Gordon Elliott

byhookorbycrook

RobertKK wrote: »

Still they will be getting a crack of the whip if not doing what the jockey wants.
They are expected to do what humans want and are trained to do it, they don’t have much of a choice.
They are not free animals to do as they please like wild horses.

You know the saying “ you can bring a horse to water?” That’s based on fact . I have a leisure horse . He’s only 15.1 so not very big . But I can categorically tell you that if he doesn’t want to do something, he won’t do it . Even the most basic things like not coming in from the field if it’s a nice day and there’s plenty fresh grass .
Your example of wild horses is somewhat ridiculous- what about domesticated dogs vs wild dogs ? Is it the thing and if so, should all dogs be allowed to roam free ?

JJs Left Hand

Shemale wrote: »

Is there a chance that this is the reason Gigginstown decided to leave racing in the first place?

People think the picture is 2 years old, Gigginstown decided to pull out in 2019 and now they are sticking with him as he continues to sell their remaining horses.

No. Not even a slight possibility.

The DayDream

Elliott had a treble at Punchestown today... Anyone thinking he'll be banned or lose horses is kidding themselves.

The Betfair thing is just a PR move and means nothing to either them or GE. They have almost every trainer writing a blog on there where they say nothing but useless cliche things about their runners for the day such as 'he'll take all the beating' (after which the horse usually gets beat), 'she's working well at home and will stay the trip' (then she ends up pushed along halfway) or 'he'll be one for the future' (and then that one wins at 20/1)

Neither he nor they need those puff pieces to keep the show on the road. Owners won't be moving their horses, and certainly not Cheveley Park Racing. They want the prize money and prestige of big race winners and that's the bottom line. You can't just 'move them all to Willie's' as was suggested. Certainly not possible this close to Cheltenham and sure after the festival hardly anyone will care or remember.

If you disagree with what he did and animal cruelty in general just don't bet on racing or watch it. Because they die every week in this sport. Suddenly it's a disgrace cuz a fat lad sat on one after?

I'm sorry but this is exactly what the industru thinks of these animals and people just don't want to admit it and are in denial like 'it's just this one guy.' yeah, okay... One of the top 2 biggest in the country and this attitude is an anomaly, pull the other one.

The Tetrarch

jakiah wrote: »

This idea that a horse has all the free will it would in a natural environment is silly. They are literally broken before they can be rode. Not saying I could go round the cross country course at Cheltenham myself now.

The Thoroughbred (race horse) is a breed that did not exist in the natural environment, "the wild", has never existed in the natural environment, so it is a true statement to say it silly to talk about the free will it would have in the natural environment.
It is a breed that started in Yorkshire around 1700 based on a few stallions imported from the Middle East (probably descended from Akhal-Teke horses from central Asia domesticated centuries earlier), Hobby and Galloway mares, and mares from earlier importations from Italy and the Middle east from around 1200.

Toetohand

RobertKK wrote: »

Still they will be getting a crack of the whip if not doing what the jockey wants.
They are expected to do what humans want and are trained to do it, they don’t have much of a choice.
They are not free animals to do as they please like wild horses.

Try getting them to do something they don’t want to do Robert. You’d be kicked into the middle of next week. 550 kgs of muscle and intelligence versus 75kg there would only be one winner. Do you want them set free as per the Danube Delta? They’d be dead in a week surely you see this....

The Mig

RobertKK wrote: »

Still they will be getting a crack of the whip if not doing what the jockey wants.
They are expected to do what humans want and are trained to do it, they don’t have much of a choice.
They are not free animals to do as they please like wild horses.

They’re thoroughbred horses that are bred to race with a man or woman on their back. And they do have a choice. They make their choice when they refuse to run or refuse to jump and obstacle. The care a thoroughbred would receive would be far greater than what a free wild horse would get. You wouldn’t need to go to the Danube either to see them. Finglas should do ya!

Fromvert

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you think one of the top trainers in Ireland and UKis a degenerate and a chance?

Hmm I think you read something else.

I said there are plenty of chancers and degenerates involved in racing.

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't read long meandering posts but he did imply that.

Edit: so you actually say you didn't read it as 200 odd words are long meandering but somehow did read some of it. Can only shrug the shoulders at that level of comprehension.

The Mig

realdanbreen wrote: »

Ask Labaik !

Mad Moose, Sariska. I’m sure there’s many more examples

bit of a bogey

The DayDream wrote: »

Elliott had a treble at Punchestown today... Anyone thinking he'll be banned or lose horses is kidding themselves.

The Betfair thing is just a PR move and means nothing to either them or GE. They have almost every trainer writing a blog on there where they say nothing but useless cliche things about their runners for the day such as 'he'll take all the beating' (after which the horse usually gets beat), 'she's working well at home and will stay the trip' (then she ends up pushed along halfway) or 'he'll be one for the future' (and then that one wins at 20/1)

Neither he nor they need those puff pieces to keep the show on the road. Owners won't be moving their horses, and certainly not Cheveley Park Racing. They want the prize money and prestige of big race winners and that's the bottom line. You can't just 'move them all to Willie's' as was suggested. Certainly not possible this close to Cheltenham and sure after the festival hardly anyone will care or remember.

If you disagree with what he did and animal cruelty in general just don't bet on racing or watch it. Because they die every week in this sport. Suddenly it's a disgrace cuz a fat lad sat on one after?

I'm sorry but this is exactly what the industru thinks of these animals and people just don't want to admit it and are in denial like 'it's just this one guy.' yeah, okay... One of the top 2 biggest in the country and this attitude is an anomaly, pull the other one.

Disagree with every paragraph

Morgans

CH3OH wrote: »

BHA ban Gordon Elliott horses pending investigation.


Owners will be able to move horses to other trainers

Or hand the running of the stable over to Keith Donoghue or Busty Amond.

Morgans

It doesn't matter what level of wrong is in the photo. The door was left open for those who are genuinely disgusted by the photo and for those looking to make hay over this due to personal animosity or some other agenda. If it was a permit holder with a couple of horses, there would plenty saying that he has no business training horses - that it was done by one of the biggest national hunt trainers in the world is unbelievably stupid. He has risked losing the lot over it, and he should have known when in the photo.

Ave Sodalis

jakiah wrote:

This idea that a horse has all the free will it would in a natural environment is silly. They are literally broken before they can be rode. Not saying I could go round the cross country course at Cheltenham myself now.

They are not "literally" broken. The term for teaching a horse to accept a rider is breaking, but it's not literal.

Motivator

famagusta wrote: »

BHA have banned gordos runners until the investigation is complete, what a joke, why punish the owners??

The only being punished here is Elliott. This is top class Shîthousery from the BHA because they’re trying to force the owners hand and get the horses out of the yard.

brooke 2

jakiah wrote: »

If you cant see why posing sitting gurning for a jokey picture on the carcass of an animal you've just worked to death for sport wouldn't be perceived as cruel, then I don't know what to tell you.

If someone prominent in the meat industry was pictured taking the piss with the carcasses of slaughtered beef coming off the line in a slaughterhouse they'd be sacked.

I have just seen this picture. It is appalling. Reminds me of similar pictures I have seen of dead horses abandoned at the side of the road, after they have been run to death in some sulky race. If we saw any of their riders straddling those horses like this scumbag Elliott is doing this one, there would be absolute uproar, and, rightly so.

Morgans

Motivator wrote: »

The only being punished here is Elliott. This is top class Shîthousery from the BHA because they’re trying to force the owners hand and get the horses out of the yard.

They do not want Gordon Elliot's name on the Cheltenham racecards and are pressuring the IHRB to come to a quick decision. I don't know what they are investigating. Gives Gordon time to come up with a PR plan.

The Mig

The Mig wrote: »

They’re thoroughbred horses that are bred to race with a man or woman on their back. And they do have a choice. They make their choice when they refuse to run or refuse to jump and obstacle. The care a thoroughbred would receive would be far greater than what a free wild horse would get. You wouldn’t need to go to the Danube either to see them. Finglas should do ya!

The argument that a horse co-operates with its ride solely out of some sense of goodwill or free choice is a bit bizarre tbh, and is not a plausible answer to the argument, which is also nonsense, that riding a horse is inherently cruel.

Lad GAGA

A sad and bad day for Gordon Elliot, I think it is the start of the end of the road for him. Can't see how Chevely Park will stay with him and over time he will lose more owners with few if any new owners coming on board. Sad that despite all his great training achievements and his undoubted skill as a trainer when people now think of GE they will straight away think of this photo and not pictures of Tiger Roll etc. God knows what he was thinking and his excuse/story makes it seem worse IMO.

Islander13

Sounds like he’s done as a trainer in the UK for good.

realdanbreen

Fromvert wrote: »

Hmm I think you read something else.

I said there are plenty of chancers and degenerates involved in racing.




Edit: so you actually say you didn't read it as 200 odd words are long meandering but somehow did read some of it. Can only shrug the shoulders at that level of comprehension.

Well you said you know nothing about horse racing bar the odd trip to leopardstown so yeah I guess you should shrug your shoulders, but no posting right!

zpehtsfd

You could see this BHA announcement coming a mile out. What a mess.

Dwarf.Shortage

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Cheevley Park are everyone’s most likely to pull out candidate? Are the ownership particularly progressive or is there some reason it could badly affect the business side of their breeding operation?

Fromvert

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well you said you know nothing about horse racing bar the odd trip to leopardstown so yeah I guess you should shrug your shoulders, but no posting right!

I've no idea what you're talking about. Did I post something about Leopardstown years ago or are you reading something else?

bmc58

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

Incredible **** up which could have massive consequences for him especially in light of Gigginstown already pulling out of the game. Reputational damage will be massive and I can definitely see someone like Cheveley Park pulling their horses.

The timing of the release just before Cheltenham is very deliberate and done to maximise the impact.

Someone he sacked? And this is their revenge?

bmc58

Gordon Elliot might have NO runners at Cheltenham.Disaster for him.

Morgans

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Cheevley Park are everyone’s most likely to pull out candidate? Are the ownership particularly progressive or is there some reason it could badly affect the business side of their breeding operation?

Would have been seen as traditionally flat racing operation and not the three men and a dog sydnicate who might see having a few pints with Gordon as part of the package. Not the usual carry on from many of their semi-aristocratic type trainers.

zpehtsfd

Islander13 wrote: »

Sounds like he’s done as a trainer in the UK for good.

Don't be ridiculous. BHA want to be seen as doing something and this will force the IHRB to act expeditiously.

Labaik

realdanbreen wrote: »

Ask Labaik !

Or my good mate Mad Moose :pac:

zerosugarbuzz

brooke 2 wrote: »

I have just seen this picture. It is appalling. Reminds me of similar pictures I have seen of dead horses abandoned at the side of the road, after they have been run to death in some sulky race. If we saw any of their riders straddling those horses like this scumbag Elliott is doing this one, there would be absolute uproar, and, rightly so.

100% agree, Gordon Elliots behavior is pure scumbaggery. I was involved with Horses for a long time, a lot of cruelty from mild to extreme goes on not just in horse racing but in Show jumping, dressage and hunting too.

brooke 2

Motivator wrote: »

You know exactly who I’m talking about and it isn’t the Pipe duo.

Bottom line here is if the Irish Independent ran a front page article this morning with the photo except they changed Gordon to a tinker, the backdrop was a tInker’s yard and the tinker gave Gordon’s explanation, there would quite rightly be uproar from people from all walks of life in Ireland.

The people defending Gordon in all of this need to have a word with themselves. I’ve seen a few people come out today saying he trained horses and he’s not the type of man to do such a thing, cop on. Elliott wouldn’t give any of you the steam off his piss. If you’re a small owner in his yard you’re nothing more than a number in his secretary’s phone and a cheque in his pocket every month. Whether he trains your horse or not, right is right and wrong is wrong. And in this instance, Gordon is most definitely wrong.

You got there ahead of me!

If Elliott were a traveller posing on the dead carcass of a horse which had died during a sulky race, the airwaves would explode! :mad:

Nozebleed

what are the odds on Elliott to be top trainer at cheltenham? could well be worth a punt now...

bmc58

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposed to have been taken in July. Strange that it’s only now surfaced. According to the Daily Mail, it’s been digitally edited. Lets hope so.

He admitted the photo was of him.So there you go.

bmc58

Nozebleed wrote: »

what are the odds on Elliott to be top trainer at cheltenham? could well be worth a punt now...

He might have no runners at Cheltenham if the British HRB have anything to do with it.

chinguetti

The BHA have now forced the IHRB to make a call on this quick or he won't have a horse left for any race. You can forget Tiger Roll and three GNs being a thing now as well.

Whatever people think (and from reading this thread, its alot of different things), the photo looks dreadful and its a PR disaster for Elliott and racing. What in heaven's name was he thinking! New owners will avoid him and others will leave, probably in the summer time.

As i'm into horseracing, coworkers were able to show/send me videos/texts of stuff today from his stable so he really doesn't seem to have a clue that people have cameras on their phones in 2021. That shows a complete lack of sense and for that he's going to pay a high price I'd say.

Shelby Foote

realdanbreen wrote: »

Look, theirs people trying to feel outraged here so no more common sense posts,,please.

It's more the majority are very much in agreement and there's a few posters going around with their shillelaghs from the 1820s.

By the way Dan Breen was a labourer, he fought against elites and cliques all his life..he wouldn't be a fan of the privileged horse racing set. You're very misnamed.

The usual oul whataboutery about 'trying to feel outraged', 'snowflakes' etc rather than say Elliott is a stupid fcuk.

Kauto

Shemale wrote: »

Is there a chance that this is the reason Gigginstown decided to leave racing in the first place?

People think the picture is 2 years old, Gigginstown decided to pull out in 2019 and now they are sticking with him as he continues to sell their remaining horses.

No

Nozebleed

bmc58 wrote: »

He might have no runners at Cheltenham if the British HRB have anything to do with it.

cant see that happening to be honest. Elliott is not guilty of a serious crime in relation to animal welfare. the optics certainly aren't great. but its typical of todays media standards to drag this out all over twitter etc. its just opportunism by some disgruntled former associate by the look of it..releasing a photo like that without giving its true context is dishonerable but thats the way media works.

Elliotts explaination while not great..appears truthfull.

I personally hope he goes on to have a good festival.

Anniepowaaa

2012 😂😂😂

Labaik

The BHA should get there own house in order first. I dont recall them banning Sheikh Mohammed from running horses in the UK after Princess Latifa's story broke. Stones and glass houses come to mind

leko99

Nozebleed wrote: »

Elliotts explaination while not great..appears truthfull.

I personally hope he goes on to have a good festival.

You honestly believe he was stood over the horse with his legs apart then got a call and accidentally without thinking sat down. Then looked up and smiled as he put up a peace sign to tell his team to wait for him?? Really??

The Mig

MOD NOTE

Don’t post in this thread again TimHorton

TimHorton

Mod edit

jakiah

There seems to be a lot of fellas on the internet fairly confident that the picture was fake, that Elliots business would be unaffected, that it's no big deal, that there would be no ban...

Yeah here we are, the picture is real, his shambolic statement made it worse, Betfair punted him, its on literally every news and sport bulletin/show, and hes got a BRHB ban, albiet a temporary one.

Hopefully he gets a lengthy ban now from the Irish board to restore a bit of faith in the sport.

Robson99

As a farmer, breeder and owner i am very disappointed in the carry on of one of the top trainers in the Country. It was stupid and brain dead for him to do that and by all accounts he has lost the run of himself.

I have seen all types of animals die here and even if it was a bad dog you were trying to get rid of you would not be laughing or posing over them when dead.

I cannot for the life of me understand why the horses should be banned from racing as that is punishing the Owners and Breeders of the horses in the yard as well when it's nothing to do with them.

He should be fined heavily and I'm sure come the end of season owners will make their decisions but for the good of racing and breeding don't ban the horses from racing or Cheltenham as that would be equally as brain dead.

I wouldn't like to be in his shoes this evening thinking about all the rumours and messages flying about....but maybe it's water of a ducks back

Labaik

Gordon Elliots statement here on TV3 news.

https://youtu.be/REpNTi-9oRQ

Nozebleed

leko99 wrote: »

You honestly believe he was stood over the horse with his legs apart then got a call and accidentally without thinking sat down. Then looked up and smiled as he put up a peace sign to tell his team to wait for him?? Really??

this controversy is more about cancel culture than anything else.

it doesnt matter what excuse elliott gives..you wont be satisfied.

i personally belive him. he's in the game a long time. horses die while at work. its part and parcel of the sport.

Larbre34

Just been told the whole back story. Hilarious.

Robson99

jakiah wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of fellas on the internet fairly confident that the picture was fake, that Elliots business would be unaffected, that it's no big deal, that there would be no ban...

Yeah here we are, the picture is real, his shambolic statement made it worse, Betfair punted him, its on literally every news and sport bulletin/show, and hes got a BRHB ban, albiet a temporary one.

Hopefully he gets a lengthy ban now from the Irish board to restore a bit of faith in the sport.

And what happens to the horses ???

realdanbreen

bmc58 wrote: »

Someone he sacked? And this is their revenge?

The dogs on the street know the name.

Anniepowaaa

Robson99 wrote: »

And what happens to the horses ???

They move yards

morphy87

Larbre34 wrote: »

Just been told the whole back story. Hilarious.

Is there more to come?