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EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Yes I agree, and although the current government will never admit it, I'd wager that the reason that we have the longest most restrictive lockdown in Europe and the 4th longest in the world even though we are an island nation with a tiny population in comparison is directly linked to our failing healthcare system. Maybe the government implemented these draconian lockdowns because they were afraid the virus would expose years of neglect and mismanagement in healthcare.

    Agreed, though i dont think the virus has hidden the mismanagement... but actually exposed it and we're all paying the price for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    That restaurant / shop / hotel would be forced to stay closed for longer without this policy being used

    is that what you want??
    Why exactly should anywhere be "forced" to stay closed longer without this policy?

    Lets get the country open and forget the selfish attitudes. Getting people back to work or out spending where possible will help reduce the overall costs. I am all for that.

    We do not need vaccine passports to get the country back open.

    Seems like we are going to see a lot of people acting as if vaccine passports are an accepted necessity and arguing from there. Bit of a fallacy that.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    So a person who chooses not to get vaccinated, is unable to take part in certain activities or possibly go on their yearly family holiday abroad because they are not vaccinated and thats not a downside? Is that difficult for you to understand?

    scenario A:
    if these certs didnt exist... would that person who chooses not to be vaccinated get to go on their holiday any sooner??

    the answer to that is no.

    scenario B:
    if these certs do exist, and the person who chooses not to be vaccinated doesnt get to go on their family holiday any sooner than scenario A.. have the suffered in some way?

    the answer is still no.

    the person who chooses not to take part has not suffered any downside in either scenario


  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭BlaktainPicard


    hmmm wrote: »
    Yeah I think that's how it will be used. It mentions children in the document, but it could easily be extended to adults. It'd be a simple way to get tourism and business travel safely restarted. There are precedents - some countries require travelers to have certain vaccinations.

    No more foreign trips for anti-vaxers, I could live with that in these extraordinary times.

    And one day they will come for you.

    I am pro vaccine btw and can't wait to take this and just get on with life, but we are on a dangerous path when we have a tiered society like this - what about people that genuinely can't get the vaccine for health reasons ?

    My own personal opinion is this will be enforced at first, but when the globe reaches herd immunity and it won't be an issue anymore I don't think theyll give a crap at the borders and just wave people through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Antigen testing centres have already been set up for those travelling, it will prob just be a case of those without a V Passport having to pay for the test. Testing centres could pop up near venues too.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The idea of the vaccine passports is completely pointless for the likes of the UK and Ireland and going about your daily activities within the country such as going to the pub etc.

    Based on the UK dates, because they have set defined dates out already, social distancing restrictions are due to be lifted at the end of June. A first vaccination is currently expected to have been offered to the whole adult population around the end of July. Until everyone has been offered a first dose you can't bring in an internal vaccine passport requirement for going to the pub...but if all restrictions are expected to have been lifted a month before then (and probably 6 weeks before everyone actually gets their first jab, two months before everyone has any antibody response from their first jab and four months before everyone has had their second jab) what is the point in then asking people for proof of vaccination to have a pint if all restrictions have already been lifted?

    There is a very limited set of scenarios for which a proof of vaccination makes sense for international travel, but that it outside of the control of individual countries anyway as it's down to the destination country if such a thing is asked for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    So a person who chooses not to get vaccinated, is unable to take part in certain activities or possibly go on their yearly family holiday abroad because they are not vaccinated and thats not a downside? Is that difficult for you to understand?

    It's not a downside. If they are allowed to make choices the potentially increase the risk to other people's health then I don't want them near me, tbh. So as a menstruating woman* who would take O/AZ today if it was offered to me because it's in everyone's best interests, I'll be far happier if in the future, selfish people who pose a risk are kept the fück away from me.


    *The people with the highest risk of clotting after O/AZ.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Nozebleed


    iguana wrote: »
    It's not a downside. If they are allowed to make choices the potentially increase the risk to other people's health then I don't want them near me, tbh. So as a menstruating woman* who would take O/AZ today if it was offered to me because it's in everyone's best interests, I'll be far happier if in the future, selfish people who pose a risk are kept the fück away from me.


    *The people with the highest risk of clotting after O/AZ.

    if i dont get vaccinated..and as a result im not allowed to attend a gig or go shopping or have a pnt in my local...how do you thik that will effect my health?

    and out of curiosity...who's do you belive is going to police the non vaccinated? and how are they going to police the non vaccinated?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    if i dont get vaccinated..and as a result im not allowed to attend a gig or go shopping or have a pnt in my local...how do you thik that will effect my health?

    I really couldn't care less how it effects your health because it's a choice that you are making. Whereas if you carry the virus and infect someone who genuinely can't be vaccinated or who has a compromised immune system, you put them at risk against their will. You hurt them because of a choice you made. So if your ability to infect others is reduced by you being limited in where you go, then good. If you don't like not being allowed to endanger others, then make the choice not to endanger them. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to have things every which way while potentially fúcking innocent people over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Kumejima


    iguana wrote: »
    I really couldn't care less how it effects your health because it's a choice that you are making. Whereas if you carry the virus and infect someone who genuinely can't be vaccinated or who has a compromised immune system, you put them at risk against their will. You hurt them because of a choice you made. So if your ability to infect others is reduced by you being limited in where you go, then good. If you don't like not being allowed to endanger others, then make the choice not to endanger them. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to have things every which way while potentially fúcking innocent people over.


    But if you're one of hundreds who get thrombosis or a stroke and end up taking up an ICU bed away from a covid patient aren't you also endangering innocent people through your own choices? You know there's a risk but you're happy to take it anyway despite what unforeseen consequences that choice might have on others.


    How the hell are you any different from vaccine refusers?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    iguana wrote: »
    I really couldn't care less how it effects your health because it's a choice that you are making. Whereas if you carry the virus and infect someone who genuinely can't be vaccinated or who has a compromised immune system, you put them at risk against their will. You hurt them because of a choice you made. So if your ability to infect others is reduced by you being limited in where you go, then good. If you don't like not being allowed to endanger others, then make the choice not to endanger them. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to have things every which way while potentially fúcking innocent people over.




    As far as I'm aware the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting covid or transmitting it to other people. So how will getting the vaccine prevent you from accidently passing it on to someone who can't get vaccinated?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Nozebleed


    iguana wrote: »
    I really couldn't care less how it effects your health because it's a choice that you are making. Whereas if you carry the virus and infect someone who genuinely can't be vaccinated or who has a compromised immune system, you put them at risk against their will. You hurt them because of a choice you made. So if your ability to infect others is reduced by you being limited in where you go, then good. If you don't like not being allowed to endanger others, then make the choice not to endanger them. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to have things every which way while potentially fúcking innocent people over.



    Im quite aware that you could give a **** about my health judging by your post..but im glad you are willing to admit that honestly.
    however you clearly know very little about vaccines and covid 19.

    the vaccine does not stop you carrying the virus..its not a cure for covid 19. you as a moderator should know this..its wont stop you getting infected either.

    it may prevent life threatning illness from covid if you happen to be a high risk individual..but if you are at high risk from covid its in your interest to get the vaccine..and once you have the vaccine there no real need to worry about others in society who decide not to take the vaccine.

    you have no place moderating such a forum. you post above is an embarrasment.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,641 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    Im quite aware that you could give a **** about my health judging by your post..but im glad you are willing to admit that honestly.
    however you clearly know very little about vaccines and covid 19.

    the vaccine does not stop you carrying the virus..its not a cure for covid 19. you as a moderator should know this..its wont stop you getting infected either.

    it may prevent life threatning illness from covid if you happen to be a high risk individual..but if you are at high risk from covid its in your interest to get the vaccine..and once you have the vaccine there no real need to worry about others in society who decide not to take the vaccine.

    you have no place moderating such a forum. you post above is an embarrasment.

    I think you need to educate yourself on the vaccines


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    iguana wrote: »
    I really couldn't care less how it effects your health because it's a choice that you are making. Whereas if you carry the virus and infect someone who genuinely can't be vaccinated or who has a compromised immune system, you put them at risk against their will. You hurt them because of a choice you made. So if your ability to infect others is reduced by you being limited in where you go, then good. If you don't like not being allowed to endanger others, then make the choice not to endanger them. You have absolutely no right whatsoever to have things every which way while potentially fúcking innocent people over.

    Im quite aware that you could give a **** about my health judging by your post..but im glad you are willing to admit that honestly.
    however you clearly know very little about vaccines and covid 19.

    the vaccine does not stop you carrying the virus..its not a cure for covid 19. you as a moderator should know this..its wont stop you getting infected either.

    it may prevent life threatning illness from covid if you happen to be a high risk individual..but if you are at high risk from covid its in your interest to get the vaccine..and once you have the vaccine there no real need to worry about others in society who decide not to take the vaccine.

    you have no place moderating such a forum. you post above is an embarrasment.

    Iguana is the mod of Soap Operas :)

    Which this is in danger of becoming :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    The usual anti vaxxers, anti progression nutters out in force as usual I see. They seem to be de rigueur on boards now.

    It's like masks all over again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Nozebleed


    The usual anti vaxxers, anti progression nutters out in force as usual I see. They seem to be de rigueur on boards now.

    It's like masks all over again.

    im no anti-vaxxer. im pro-choice....is that a problem for you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭SnuggyBear


    Anti progression? lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,433 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    im no anti-vaxxer. im pro-choice....is that a problem for you?

    That's fair enough.


    But what if there is many like you who don't take the vaccine and end up getting very sick and needing hospitalisation and more lockdowns has to be brought in to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

    Do you think that's fair on all of us who want to get our lives back and living again?


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,645 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    im no anti-vaxxer. im pro-choice....is that a problem for you?

    no one is taking away your right to make a choice....

    the result of you choosing not to take the vaccination is EXACTLY the same whether they introduce these green certs or not...

    you are not being put out in any way.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    I'm pro choice as it's your own life, and as someone who hasn't left the country in 15 years the passport for foreign travel isn't a big thing to me,
    but i'll still get the vaccine to see my elderly parents guilt free, and be able to go back to pubs, restaurants and public transport ect


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    That's fair enough.


    But what if there is many like you who don't take the vaccine and end up getting very sick and needing hospitalisation and more lockdowns has to be brought in to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

    Do you think that's fair on all of us who want to get our lives back and living again?

    But there isn't many people not taking the vaccine, high take up among those offered so far and those offered come from the groups which make up the vast majority of hospitalisations and deaths.

    Lockdowns have only ever been about saving the health services from collapsing so that they can still treat other conditions, not so much about trying to save every covid death. If 99% of deaths from covid are prevented by 70% of the population being vaccinated then we'll just be back to normal relatively quickly. A vaccine passport to try and force that remaining 30% of the population to get a jab is a waste of time and money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,205 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    faceman wrote: »
    I think you need to educate yourself on the vaccines

    Have a look at what's happening in Chile, I can't figure out what's going on, Chile is in a mess and Israel is saying everything is going swimmingly. Something has gone very wrong with the vaccine program.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    robinph wrote: »
    Lockdowns have only ever been about saving the health services from collapsing so that they can still treat other conditions, not so much about trying to save every covid death. If 99% of deaths from covid are prevented by 70% of the population being vaccinated then we'll just be back to normal relatively quickly. A vaccine passport to try and force that remaining 30% of the population to get a jab is a waste of time and money.

    The issue is that that 30% could be more susceptible to creating variants of covid that the vaccines might not be effective against.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    All I know is that people that work part time in the back of pharmacys and HSE employees that work from home have been given tha vaccine irregardless of age or risk profile which is blatant favouritism.
    If they now get to live a fuller life then we will know that that favouritism wasn't for health reasons which I can sort of forgive but for simple access to recreation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo


    The issue is that that 30% could be more susceptible to creating variants of covid that the vaccines might not be effective against.

    Uh. What are you basing this on?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    All I know is that people that work part time in the back of pharmacys and HSE employees that work from home have been given tha vaccine irregardless of age or risk profile which is blatant favouritism.
    If they now get to live a fuller life then we will know that that favouritism wasn't for health reasons which I can sort of forgive but for simple access to recreation.

    Would say it was more ineptitude than any favouritism.

    No point crying over spilled milk.. Time to look forward and get the nation open fast as we can. Reduce the cost to the exchequer. Better for everyone


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    im no anti-vaxxer. im pro-choice....is that a problem for you?


    When your pro-choice impacts the rest of society you will find that it is a very big problem for you, because people are not going to accept you making choices for them too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    im no anti-vaxxer. im pro-choice....is that a problem for you?

    And you can feel free to make your own choice. But don't be surprised when other people choose not to be in a building with you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    When your pro-choice impacts the rest of society you will find that it is a very big problem for you, because people are not going to accept you making choices for them too.

    Why not, sure we've had a year of it now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Have a look at what's happening in Chile, I can't figure out what's going on, Chile is in a mess and Israel is saying everything is going swimmingly. Something has gone very wrong with the vaccine program.

    I believe Chile is using the Chinese vaccine Sinovac and this is where the issue is. So there could be issues there.

    On the passport front, something I’ve identified on other threads is that for instance the US gives less restrictions when you use FDA approved vaccines (so Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson and Johnson). Meaning of they don’t approve Sputnik (doubt it will even be submitted), sinovac (China vaccine), AstraZeneca you’ll have to get one of the approved ones to be able to travel. This could be a right mess


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