EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

Jinglejangle69

virginmediapls wrote: »

Good, hope its brought in sooner

There is no way this is fair though.

We know 1000s of people scammed the system to get a vaccine.

Us honest plebs will be still at home unable to go to a hotel or the pub in September while the scam artists will be living it up laughing all the way.

Totally unfair

Nozebleed

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Well Bahrain is now the first country to 'ban' the unvaccinated. From the 1st day of Eid only those who are vaccinated or have recently had covid will be allowed access to cinemas, restaurants, gyms, spas etc!

sure they dont allow women do fck all over there so that doesnt surprise me.

Beechwoodspark

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Well Bahrain is now the first country to 'ban' the unvaccinated. From the 1st day of Eid only those who are vaccinated or have recently had covid will be allowed access to cinemas, restaurants, gyms, spas etc!

Human rights Cess pit

giveitholly

virginmediapls wrote: »

Good, hope its brought in sooner

Do you think it's fair that people who jumped the queue for vaccines will have access to cinemas,pubs etc while some people might have to wait til Sept to be fully vaccinated

Beechwoodspark

giveitholly wrote: »

Do you think it's fair that people who jumped the queue for vaccines will have access to cinemas,pubs etc while some people might have to wait til Sept to be fully vaccinated

Very good point

It appears there was been “cheating” where ppl pretended to be in healthcare etc and jumped the queue

How widespread it is, has to be confirmed

Personally I find that so so selfish and quite disgusting

But To further reward such miscreants would be completely wrong

arccosh

francogarbanzo wrote: »

"Your decision to act as a petri dish for the virus and give it more potential vectors for mutation that might change vaccine efficacy also affects vaccinated people."

Can you expand on this? What evidence is there that variants don't mutate in vaccinated people but do mutate in non-vaccinated people?

I've seen this a few times in this thread..

Basic biology is the answer...

A virus needs a living host to live in, multiply and spread...that's it's natural programming.....

Being vaccinated doesn't mean a complete block on getting the virus, you will still get it, and while it multiplies in your body to a level that triggers an immune response, you can possibly become symptomatic (and asymptomatic) and become contagious..... this level will be different for everybody...
Having the vaccine means your body is prepped to attack and kill of the virus quicker than if you were to make the antibodies from nothing..... meaning less time to spread and/or mutate...

If you don't suppress a strain, it will eventually mutate into a version of the virus that is better adapted to surviving and transmitting in it's current environment.....

can it mutate into a weaker version, yes it can, hopefully it does.

can it mutate into a stronger version, yes it can and more likely does ....
this to circumnavigate a population sample's immunity factors (genetics, vaccines, general health etc.....)

Have a look over some junior cert science, it'll do wonders for your understanding.

faceman

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have a look at what's happening in Chile, I can't figure out what's going on, Chile is in a mess and Israel is saying everything is going swimmingly. Something has gone very wrong with the vaccine program.

Nothing has gone wrong with Chile’s vaccine programme. They’re ahead of most countries but not Israel, U.K. or the UAE. Only 1/3 of the Chilean population has received the first dose of the vaccine. It’s not enough to hit the desired 70% required. Plus Chile had really high transmission rates at the time of rollout.

is_that_so

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Well Bahrain is now the first country to 'ban' the unvaccinated. From the 1st day of Eid only those who are vaccinated or have recently had covid will be allowed access to cinemas, restaurants, gyms, spas etc!

Hmm Bahrain, that bastion of democracy.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/bahrain

giveitholly

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Very good point

It appears there was been “cheating” where ppl pretended to be in healthcare etc and jumped the queue

How widespread it is, has to be confirmed

Personally I find that so so selfish and quite disgusting

But To further reward such miscreants would be completely wrong

Plus its very unfair on someone who gets the AZ jab and has to wait 3 months for a second jab compared to the person who gets the one dose J&J

SnuggyBear

I presume the vaccine passport would need to be updated every 6 months?

Going by how slow the Irish government have been through this I don't see it happening here. Nothing to with them thinking it would be unfair more so cos they are too crap to get it going.

Beechwoodspark

SnuggyBear wrote: »

I presume the vaccine passport would need to be updated every 6 months?

Going by how slow the Irish government have been through this I don't see it happening here. Nothing to with them thinking it would be unfair more so cos they are too crap to get it going.

True. They’d spend so long developing it that when it launches it wouldn’t be required any longer

arccosh

it's going to be with your monthly Windows 10 update

astrofool

giveitholly wrote: »

Plus its very unfair on someone who gets the AZ jab and has to wait 3 months for a second jab compared to the person who gets the one dose J&J

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is no way this is fair though.

We know 1000s of people scammed the system to get a vaccine.

Us honest plebs will be still at home unable to go to a hotel or the pub in September while the scam artists will be living it up laughing all the way.

Totally unfair

People complaining about it being unfair sound like babies, life is unfair, some people, mostly vulnerable, are going to be able to enjoy life before you, suck it up. Those who skipped the queue are awful people, if you have friends or colleagues who skipped the queue, ignore them and treat them with disdain, karma will pay them back.

The second dose of AZ (and most vaccines) is for increased efficacy and longevity of the protection, most vaccine passports will only be applied for first dose + a couple of weeks (depending on which vaccine).

Beechwoodspark

astrofool wrote: »

People complaining about it being unfair sound like babies, life is unfair, some people, mostly vulnerable, are going to be able to enjoy life before you, suck it up. Those who skipped the queue are awful people, if you have friends or colleagues who skipped the queue, ignore them and treat them with disdain, karma will pay them back.

The second dose of AZ (and most vaccines) is for increased efficacy and longevity of the protection, most vaccine passports will only be applied for first dose + a couple of weeks (depending on which vaccine).

The ppl who cheated and jumped the queue should at the very least get a 1k fine. At the very least

Economics101

Some sort of EU-wide (or even wider) vaccine passport will be needed for international travel. Like conventional passports there will have to be a high degree of international agreement.

This whole discussion seems obsessed with much wider questions about using passports for admission to restaurants, pubs, etc. Maybe this will be part of the Ts and Cs for admission, but the Government need not get involved in making anything compulsory, unless there are new localised outbreaks.

As for the arguments that passports would not be fair because cheats might benefit while the honest un-vaccinated are deprived of any benefits. Given that the "cheats" are likely to be a very low number compared with those who have been vaccinated in compliance with the rules, are you going to deprive the many just to stick it to the few?

I find it strange that people seem willing to put up with an immense level of deprivation of basic liberties in a prolonged lockdown, but start complaining just because not everyone can benefit immediately when a vaccine offers hope for improvement. Egalitarianism gone mad.

Jinglejangle69

astrofool wrote: »

People complaining about it being unfair sound like babies, life is unfair, some people, mostly vulnerable, are going to be able to enjoy life before you, suck it up. Those who skipped the queue are awful people, if you have friends or colleagues who skipped the queue, ignore them and treat them with disdain, karma will pay them back.

The second dose of AZ (and most vaccines) is for increased efficacy and longevity of the protection, most vaccine passports will only be applied for first dose + a couple of weeks (depending on which vaccine).

They will be rewarded for the dishonesty.

Don't believe in karma sorry.

When something is unfair its unfair.

ExMachina1000

In the United states voter id are racist but vaccine passports are freedom apparently.

astrofool

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

In the United states voter id are racist but vaccine passports are freedom apparently.

Because vaccine passports aren't racist? Go on, say what you really mean here instead of thinly veiling it.

astrofool

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They will be rewarded for the dishonesty.

Don't believe in karma sorry.

When something is unfair its unfair.

So no vaccine passports because some babies think that life shouldn't be unfair?

Jinglejangle69

astrofool wrote: »

So no vaccine passports because some babies think that life shouldn't be unfair?

Well yes I'd like to think life shouldn't be unfair to anyone.

Logical no?

Especially seems were all meant to be in this together?

Noone should be able to do things others can't because they scammed the system.

SnuggyBear

astrofool wrote: »

So no vaccine passports because some babies think that life shouldn't be unfair?

Going by your logic we should open everything now with no restrictions at all. **** the vulnerable, life isn't fair.

drunkmonkey

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Going by your logic we should open everything now with no restrictions at all. **** the vulnerable, life isn't fair.

Why not, it worked for Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGtS-Prtxvs

bigbadpat

I have a vaccine passport for over 15 years -

without it I could not have travelled to so many countries & continents.

Covid-19 Passport - bring it on - a.s.a.p.

ExMachina1000

astrofool wrote: »

Because vaccine passports aren't racist? Go on, say what you really mean here instead of thinly veiling it.

Neither voter id or vaccine passports are racist.

One is to verify identity before voting and the other to prove vaccination before departure.

Anyone who says different has an irrelevant opinion. To be disregarded and not taken seriously or in good faith.

Back to the passports

hmmm

A fine of 10k for fake vaccine passports will sort out the bravado pretty quickly. Because it potentially puts some people at risk of serious disease it should also come with a prison sentence.

As for vaccine passports, it's obvious and it needs to happen while we are still in a pandemic. Words cannot express how little I care about the "rights" of those who don't want to get vaccinated, we need to be protected from the health risks of their choice.

jam_mac_jam

I think the practicalities of this are going to get a bit awkward. You already have shop workers police people about masks and now you are going to have to be policing people's vaccines in entertainment settings.

A lot of organisations in the UK have raised concerns about the effects on business. Reducing custom increased costs.

I can't imagine this will be in place before things open up. We opened up last year without them, plentyof other places are open
how are you going to get this set up.

It took three months to organise quarantine.

I won't be getting one unless I have to travel. I don't care how much that makes me a conspiracy theorist. I will be getting the vaccine. It's being told I am compelled to that is annoying me.

bucketybuck

astrofool wrote: »

So no vaccine passports because some babies think that life shouldn't be unfair?

I'm with this guy. People whinging about covid are just being babies, life is unfair, they need to suck it up and stop holding everybody else back.

Maybe it is unfair that a tiny percentage of people die from covid, but like astro says, the world cant stop just because some babies think that life shouldn't be unfair.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

A fine of 10k for fake vaccine passports will sort out the bravado pretty quickly. Because it potentially puts some people at risk of serious disease it should also come with a prison sentence.

As for vaccine passports, it's obvious and it needs to happen while we are still in a pandemic. Words cannot express how little I care about the "rights" of those who don't want to get vaccinated, we need to be protected from the health risks of their choice.

Are you confident vaccine passports would be got rid of post-pandemic?

astrofool

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Neither voter id or vaccine passports are racist.

One is to verify identity before voting and the other to prove vaccination before departure.

Anyone who says different has an irrelevant opinion. To be disregarded and not taken seriously or in good faith.

Back to the passports

Vaccine passports don't target any particular race and aren't being brought in to make it harder for a particular race to be vaccinated, the opposite is true for voter ID being a new requirement in the states, hence why people think it's racist (there should always have been ID for voters, but bringing it in after a loss to target a community who don't vote for you is racist). Although it is interesting how you feel safe to bring up race issues here and not in other forums on boards.

Interesting that people are only worried about fairness of vaccine passports, when reality is that by June, the majority of adults will be vaccinated anyway, they'll definitely be needed for travel internationally (at least 1 dose), they might be needed domestically.

Any anti-vaxxers here that are worried about the system? I mean once everyone has been offered a vaccine and people don't need to whine about fairness anymore.

hmmm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I think the practicalities of this are going to get a bit awkward. You already have shop workers police people about masks and now you are going to have to be policing people's vaccines in entertainment settings.

A lot of organisations in the UK have raised concerns about the effects on business. Reducing custom increased costs.

I don't agree that it will reduce custom.

For one thing, it will allow businesses open indoors sooner if they can guarantee they only admit vaccinated people. I'll be waiting a while for a vaccine myself, but I wouldn't begrudge any restaurant or pub or gym being allowed to open if they can only admit vaccinated people.

Similarly there has been some interesting findings in the airline sector. The flight routes which have had some of the most stringent restrictions (e.g. Hawaii from the US) have also had the highest load as people know that everyone on board was tested & likely to be Covid free. I wouldn't underestimate how much comfort it will give people, and how likely they are to want to return to indoor locations if they know that they will almost certainly not get Covid.

There's a lot more to consider here than the small minority who are going to refuse vaccines.