EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

But it's important to note that it's a vaccine passport, not a covid passport. So that could result in any and all vaccines being mandatory.

I guess the social credit system could be something along the lines of 'don't have the latest vaccine, or booster shot? Then no access to public transport for x number of days.' That's just a hypothesis. I really don't know whether that would ever happen.

No, it's a COVID vaccine passport, and it's not even a passport, the term "vaccine passport" is purely a media creation.

Again, sounds like we're fine as long as they don't add the flu vaccine to whatever certification system they use.

astrofool

drunkmonkey wrote: »

image

Are you planning on getting vaccinated drunkmonkey?

moonage

The only way these appalling passports can be stopped is if a majority of the non-vulnerable refuse the vaccine.

It's unlikey to happen, as the propaganda and brainwashing is too strong.

I think that having a digital ID that, at least initially, tracks your movements was the actual goal and that vaccine status is just a means to an end.

astrofool

moonage wrote: »

The only way these appalling passports can be stopped is if a majority of the non-vulnerable refuse the vaccine.

Incorrect, enough people have already taken a vaccine that their use in international travel is inevitable.

moonage wrote: »

It's unlikey to happen, as the propaganda and brainwashing is too strong.

Incorrect, there is no propaganda and brainwashing occurring (in fact the countries engaging in propaganda so far seem to be led by anti-vaxxers, such as Uguanda, and to a lesser extent Brazil).

moonage wrote: »

I think that having a digital ID that, at least initially, tracks your movements was the actual goal and that vaccine status is just a means to an end.

Incorrect, there will be no digital ID in Ireland as a result of the pandemic, there will be some way to certify that you had a vaccine but that will be the beginning and end of it.

moonage

astrofool wrote: »

Incorrect, enough people have already taken a vaccine that their use in international travel is inevitable.

Their use in international travel may be inevitable but their use domestically, in gyms, pubs, concerts etc is not inevitable if enough refuse the jab.

If a majority don't get vaccinated, then the system becomes unworkable and will collapse.

ExMachina1000

The United states president Joe Biden has just announced that the United states will NOT be introducing vaccine passports as the rights and privacy of individuals must be respected and protected

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-56657194

astrofool

moonage wrote: »

Their use in international travel may be inevitable but their use domestically, in gyms, pubs, concerts etc is not inevitable if enough refuse the jab.

If a majority don't get vaccinated, then the system becomes unworkable and will collapse.

Incorrect, as the majority will get vaccinated, levels of take up of the vaccines in Ireland is consistently above 90%

drunkmonkey

astrofool wrote: »

Are you planning on getting vaccinated drunkmonkey?

I'm on the fence i'd like to see how others get on over next winter with new variants, not in any rush for a foreign holiday so no real incentive there, it doesn't frighten me as I think I've had it at least twice.
My other half says she wants the J&J one, kids are young but the jabs they've had like the bcg and mmr are still in covid trials so neither of us are too hot on getting them vaccinated with the emergency use ones.

bucketybuck

Russman wrote: »

My own opinion at the moment is that it will likely be a relatively short term measure and I’ve no issue with some people being told “no” you can’t do something. I’d rather see businesses open quicker if they can, as opposed to staying shut til everyone is vaccinated.

But businesses don't need to stay shut until everybody is vaccinated. That is just what some people stated because they needed something to hang the "covid passport" hat upon. It isn't actually true, as demonstrated elsewhere in the world.

A short term measure that likely will already be redundant by the time our inefficient government get it implemented, best case scenario here is that it is just another meaningless gimmick within the wider covid hysteria.

Jim2007

moonage wrote: »

Their use in international travel may be inevitable but their use domestically, in gyms, pubs, concerts etc is not inevitable if enough refuse the jab.

If a majority don't get vaccinated, then the system becomes unworkable and will collapse.

Well you won’t need to worry about the gym then, dealing with the next couple of waves of the the virus should keep you occupied!

astrofool

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm on the fence i'd like to see how others get on over next winter with new variants, not in any rush for a foreign holiday so no real incentive there, it doesn't frighten me as I think I've had it at least twice.
My other half says she wants the J&J one, kids are young but the jabs they've had like the bcg and mmr are still in covid trials so neither of us are too hot on getting them vaccinated with the emergency use ones.

It sounds like you can afford to wait, J&J and AZ are very similar vaccines with a similar vector. There won't be any vaccines for kids for a while, I honestly doubt the use of any sort of vaccine certificate system past the summer, but I wouldn't bet against some sort of winter resurgence that might require a booster, or some sort of restrictions coming back in for a period of time.

edit: I would add that it'll likely be a hardened requirement for healthcare workers and those working with the elderly to be vaccinated, they will find it hard to stay employed if they refuse to get jabbed.

Jim2007

moonage wrote: »

The only way these appalling passports can be stopped is if ga majority of the non-vulnerable refuse the vaccine.

It's unlikey to happen, as the propaganda and brainwashing is too strong.

I think that having a digital ID that, at least initially, tracks your movements was the actual goal and that vaccine status is just a means to an end.

You need to grow up and start living in the real world. Either that or turn of your router, stop carrying a mobile phone and stop using a credit card. This is the biggest piece of nonsense I’ve heard in years. You clearly have not got the foggiest idea of how things work if you think you can be tracked by a vaccination card.

drunkmonkey

Yea it's winter is the real test, don't know how people are going to go back to normal flu season with everyone coughing and spluttering with trolleys all over the hospital corridors.
October/November is probably when to get a vaccine not now.

Beasty

moonage wrote: »

The only way these appalling passports can be stopped is if a majority of the non-vulnerable refuse the vaccine.

It's unlikey to happen, as the propaganda and brainwashing is too strong.

I think that having a digital ID that, at least initially, tracks your movements was the actual goal and that vaccine status is just a means to an end.

Take it to the Conspiracy Theories Forum

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

drunkmonkey

They're floating in the Indo&Times if you've had the vaccine

not being deemed a close contact
not having to wear a mask
allowed to matches, concerts
allowed to restaurants

It's hoped it would encourage those who may be hesitant of vaccines to sign up to the national vaccination programme.

How can they possibly manage those proposals at a practical level or more importantly how can centra, mcdonald's, the gaa etc manage them. Probably handiest stamp the permissions on our forehead.

SusanC10

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're floating in the Indo&Times if you've had the vaccine

not being deemed a close contact
not having to wear a mask
allowed to matches, concerts
allowed to restaurants

It's hoped it would encourage those who may be hesitant of vaccines to sign up to the national vaccination programme.

How can they possibly manage those proposals at a practical level or more importantly how can centra, mcdonald's, the gaa etc manage them. Probably handiest stamp the permissions on our forehead.

Any mention of under 16s in this proposal?

AdamD

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're floating in the Indo&Times if you've had the vaccine

not being deemed a close contact
not having to wear a mask
allowed to matches, concerts
allowed to restaurants

It's hoped it would encourage those who may be hesitant of vaccines to sign up to the national vaccination programme.

How can they possibly manage those proposals at a practical level or more importantly how can centra, mcdonald's, the gaa etc manage them. Probably handiest stamp the permissions on our forehead.

By the time the vast majority of concert goers have been received 2 doses of a vaccine, Ireland will have reached herd immunity, so what exactly would this passport be achieving at that point?

El_Duderino 09

arccosh wrote: »

I've seen this a few times in this thread..

Basic biology is the answer...

A virus needs a living host to live in, multiply and spread...that's it's natural programming.....

Being vaccinated doesn't mean a complete block on getting the virus, you will still get it, and while it multiplies in your body to a level that triggers an immune response, you can possibly become symptomatic (and asymptomatic) and become contagious..... this level will be different for everybody...
Having the vaccine means your body is prepped to attack and kill of the virus quicker than if you were to make the antibodies from nothing..... meaning less time to spread and/or mutate...

If you don't suppress a strain, it will eventually mutate into a version of the virus that is better adapted to surviving and transmitting in it's current environment.....

can it mutate into a weaker version, yes it can, hopefully it does.

can it mutate into a stronger version, yes it can and more likely does ....
this to circumnavigate a population sample's immunity factors (genetics, vaccines, general health etc.....)

Have a look over some junior cert science, it'll do wonders for your understanding.

This post should be stickied to the top each page in the thread. The people who don’t want to know the answer will ignore it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the same question asked again in the next few pages.

El_Duderino 09

AdamD wrote: »

By the time the vast majority of concert goers have been received 2 doses of a vaccine, Ireland will have reached herd immunity, so what exactly would this passport be achieving at that point?

All the concert goers will have been vaccinated if they need a passport to get in. Others who want to go to the concert but haven’t been vaccinated, won’t be able to get in.

But I have to point out that we don’t know at what point herd immunity will be achieved. We have estimates of 70-90%. And we can’t achieve any of that without including children. So until we can vaccinate children (or carry out mass testing to determine how many children are already immune) then it not likely be achieved within the next year.

So vaccine passports would be very useful to encourage the vaccine hesitant to get the finger out and get the vaccines and help the country achieve herd immunity

drunkmonkey

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any mention of under 16s in this proposal?

No didn't mention anything about them, I'd say the indo made up the matches and restraunts, the close contacts and masks came from NPHET.
It's all only a distraction i'd say, the close contact proposal will take health care workers out of the loop so they can stay in work and the masks well they didn't make much of an impact in the first place.
These are more of a bonus to the HSE rather then the elderly.

arccosh

astrofool wrote: »

Incorrect, as the majority will get vaccinated, levels of take up of the vaccines in Ireland is consistently above 90%

thankfully correct...

Being in the echo chamber of Boards and social media would make you think differently.... but again it will the the majority who do get the vaccine (and want).
It will be the majority who are the contributing factor who get us out of this mess...

unfortunately, there'll be the people who didn't get it who will feel justified that they didn't get it, and because they and their mates didn't get it, it will feed into their own narrative that all of this was a crock of ****, because "they resisted the government and see it fixed itself" and they will continue their circle jerk about how they were right.

francogarbanzo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

All the concert goers will have been vaccinated if they need a passport to get in. Others who want to go to the concert but haven’t been vaccinated, won’t be able to get in.

But I have to point out that we don’t know at what point herd immunity will be achieved. We have estimates of 70-90%. And we can’t achieve any of that without including children. So until we can vaccinate children (or carry out mass testing to determine how many children are already immune) then it not likely be achieved within the next year.

So vaccine passports would be very useful to encourage the vaccine hesitant to get the finger out and get the vaccines and help the country achieve herd immunity

So it’s coercion.

is_that_so

arccosh wrote: »

thankfully correct...

Being in the echo chamber of Boards and social media would make you think differently.... but again it will the the majority who do get the vaccine (and want).
It will be the majority who are the contributing factor who get us out of this mess...

unfortunately, there'll be the people who didn't get it who will feel justified that they didn't get it, and because they and their mates didn't get it, it will feed into their own narrative that all of this was a crock of ****, because "they resisted the government and see it fixed itself" and they will continue their circle jerk about how they were right.

I believe in heroes but only my kind of heroes! I definitely wouldn't consider a career on the motivational speech circuit, though.

arccosh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This post should be stickied to the top each page in the thread. The people who don’t want to know the answer will ignore it. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the same question asked again in the next few pages.

It'll be definitely asked again...

The lack of basic science, math and statistics understanding is this thread, along with people making arguments based on their false understanding of them is tragically comical....

NPHET are getting all the flak, when they actually predicted this would happen last year.... they recommended to the government to make the original lockdowns longer so they didn't get to a point where they had to jump in and out of extended lockdowns...

They proposed one longer lockdown to fix elements of the health service and set up a fully functioning track and trace service.... LAST YEAR

The government ignored their advice.

They have been cherry picking ever since on the back of "balancing the economy"

The fundamental problem though is, Ireland's health service is in ****... yes we have lower COVID numbers now, and if there was a decent health service, there could be a tangible exit strategy in place...

But because there is still a virus out there, that takes 2 to 3 weeks after infection before hospitalisations occur, at which point is past containment stage, this can easily max out resources in the health service if enough people get sick to a point where hospital care is needed...

This latency is always overlooked, as people seem to think infection means they'll be sick tomorrow and in hospital the following day...

I know hindsight is great, but I think NPHET is getting a lot more flak when it should be with the decision makers

iguana

SnuggyBear wrote: »

We are not talking about travelling we are talking about going to restaurants etc. That alone is heading to a social scoring system.

The fact is that these kinds of measures have already existed. Between the times when we understood viral/bacterial infection but before there were mass vaccination programmes, there were types of restrictions and requirements for medical certificates. It can be seen in books written from the 30s-60s contemporaneous to their times. In Enid Blyton's Malory Towers books about a girls boarding school, for example, at the start of every book which depicts a new term, the girls either have to present a medical certificate stating they had not been around any infectious diseases or spend the first two weeks of term in the sanitarium. There are also mentions throughout the series of some characters not being present because they are quarantining due to exposure to certain viruses.

Vaccine passports/certificates of the kind mentioned here are not new. Not in the slightest, we just haven't been exposed to them because mass vaccination of existing viruses have existed since most of us were young children/all our lives. What's different here is that it's the first time ever that we have created vaccines during a pandemic serious enough to have drastically altered our lifestyles. And that we have the technology available to us to be able to prove whether or not we have been vaccinated, thus ending the pandemic as quickly as possible. This isn't new and insidious. It's old and it's new and it's fücking brilliant!

is_that_so

arccosh wrote: »

It'll be definitely asked again...

The lack of basic science, math and statistics understanding is this thread, along with people making arguments based on their false understanding of them is tragically comical....

NPHET are getting all the flak, when they actually predicted this would happen last year.... they recommended to the government to make the original lockdowns longer so they didn't get to a point where they had to jump in and out of extended lockdowns...

They proposed one longer lockdown to fix elements of the health service and set up a fully functioning track and trace service.... LAST YEAR

The government ignored their advice.

They have been cherry picking ever since on the back of "balancing the economy"

The fundamental problem though is, Ireland's health service is in ****... yes we have lower COVID numbers now, and if there was a decent health service, there could be a tangible exit strategy in place...

But because there is still a virus out there, that takes 2 to 3 weeks after infection before hospitalisations occur, at which point is past containment stage, this can easily max out resources in the health service if enough people get sick to a point where hospital care is needed...

This latency is always overlooked, as people seem to think infection means they'll be sick tomorrow and in hospital the following day...

I know hindsight is great, but I think NPHET is getting a lot more flak when it should be with the decision makers

NPHET get flak because of their mode of communication, which has been very ropey at times gyrating from alarm to imploring people to direct finger pointing. It's also very clear that the own narrow remit is what drives everything somewhat blindly.

Can I say how nice it is to have yet another poster telling other posters how stupid they are. We just don't have enough of those!

Multipass

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're floating in the Indo&Times if you've had the vaccine

not being deemed a close contact
not having to wear a mask
allowed to matches, concerts
allowed to restaurants

It's hoped it would encourage those who may be hesitant of vaccines to sign up to the national vaccination programme.

How can they possibly manage those proposals at a practical level or more importantly how can centra, mcdonald's, the gaa etc manage them. Probably handiest stamp the permissions on our forehead.

Hah, if they do that my mask will be gone in a flash - great!

ednwireland

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're floating in the Indo&Times if you've had the vaccine

not being deemed a close contact
not having to wear a mask
allowed to matches, concerts
allowed to restaurants

It's hoped it would encourage those who may be hesitant of vaccines to sign up to the national vaccination programme.

How can they possibly manage those proposals at a practical level or more importantly how can centra, mcdonald's, the gaa etc manage them. Probably handiest stamp the permissions on our forehead.

not going to happen , impossible to manage/police and too many interest groups and civil liberties groups would be up in arms about it

arccosh

is_that_so wrote: »

Can I say how nice it is to have yet another poster telling other posters how stupid they are. We just don't have enough of those!

If people want to ignore fundamental math and science, then base arguments on it..

Yes, that is stupid

El_Duderino 09

francogarbanzo wrote: »

So it’s coercion.

Not really. Well maybe its coercion in the way that any quid pro quo is coercion. Working in exchange for money or buying a Twix. It's certainly an incentive.

It's ultimately a choice. A choice between being a martyr or just wanting to get back to normal life