EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

bucketybuck

Fighting Tao wrote: »

To protect people.

Those poor unprotected Americans, they are going to be doomed without their covid passports!

SusanC10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Then why are shops and hairdressers set to open to vaccinated people only next month: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html

This is going to used everywhere, in my opinion. As demonstrated in the promo video for Health Passport Ireland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFerXipG-t0

Watch from 1:19 on. The narrator explains how and where the passport could be used.

What about children?
If I as a Parent am vaccinated (whenever that happens), then I won't be able to bring my unvaccinated child into a non-essential shop ??

drunkmonkey

SusanC10 wrote: »

What about children?
If I as a Parent am vaccinated (whenever that happens), then I won't be able to bring my unvaccinated child into a non-essential shop ??

You as a parent should say no to this crap, if you tolerate it they're next. This is Coercion on an epic scale by Government.
It's turned from save the vunerable to screw them save children from tyranny.

titan18

Irish Aris wrote: »

I was thinking the same this morning.
Would a shop make a profit with very limited clientele allowed? It doesn't make much sense.
If the government actually goes for this, does this mean that they can stop financially supporting businesses and employees (I mean the grants, PUP etc.)?

Ya, you're basically limited to anyone who got Pfizer or Moderna in May as no one will have got both AZ doses really. Maybe a hairdresser opens for a day for old people or something, no way you'd have business to reopen properly

Fighting Tao

bucketybuck wrote: »

Those poor unprotected Americans, they are going to be doomed without their covid passports!

Did you read the article? No mention of Americans at all.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You as a parent should say no to this crap, if you tolerate it they're next. This is Coercion on an epic scale by Government.
It's turned from save the vunerable to screw them save children from tyranny.

Some shops banned kids at the start of this they had signs up and think the supermarkets had a kind of loose policy that kids were not welcomed etc. Don’t see those signs anymore at least thankfully. Kids going through enough without being seen as second class citizens.

bucketybuck

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Did you read the article? No mention of Americans at all.

Read this one and then weep for those poor Americans who are all going to be unprotected. Oh the humanity.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Then why are shops and hairdressers set to open to vaccinated people only next month.

They're not.
An examiner headline isn't government policy.

The headline doesn't even match anything said in the article.

There will be no concept of a "vaccine passport" for access to domestic services in general, in Ireland.

I know that right now for a fact because it took nearly a year to get mandatory hotel quarantine in place.

By the time the logistical, constitutional and legislative frameworks would be in place to have an internal "vaccine passport" operating - even on emergency basis - we will be well over the herd immunity threshold for vaccinations, rendering the passes obsolete.

There may be some limited circumstances where someone cannot enter a facility without vaccination - such as hospitals or nursing homes. But there is no chance whatsoever that you will be forced to show a vaccine cert to go and have a pint in your local.

Fighting Tao

bucketybuck wrote: »

Read this one and then weep for those poor Americans who are all going to be unprotected. Oh the humanity.

I read the one I replied to and it was in relation to the Irish government regulations. What the Americans do really isn’t much of a concern to me living in Ireland.

drunkmonkey

gansi wrote: »

Some shops banned kids at the start of this they had signs up and think the supermarkets had a kind of loose policy that kids were not welcomed etc. Don’t see those signs anymore at least thankfully. Kids going through enough without being seen as second class citizens.

I had no choice taking my kids sometimes as my other half was working, to see grown adults running and dodging from them is a sight to behold. We've created an open air lunatic asylum.
Had a customer in this morning giving out about people on a beach yesterday with no mask, I don't usually get thick but I unleashed on him, his own mask looked like he just wiped his ass with it. I'm really starting to see these crazy people as a threat to humanity.

bucketybuck

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I read the one I replied to and it was in relation to the Irish government regulations. What the Americans do really isn’t much of a concern to me living in Ireland.

All those unprotected people and nobody even cares, such a shame.

josip

What would probably happen is that (some) shops/hairdressers wouldn't bother checking for vaccinations and allow everyone in claiming "they said they were vaccinated".
Curtain twitchers/self appointed neighbourhood watch, would have difficulty policing it.
The fines would probably be less than the potential profit.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You as a parent should say no to this crap, if you tolerate it they're next. This is Coercion on an epic scale by Government.
It's turned from save the vunerable to screw them save children from tyranny.

I agree, but what can you do if you're not allowed in unless you have the Government approved app? It's like the muzzle. You can't go into a bank, to the supermarket, go on public transport without a mask.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I had no choice taking my kids sometimes as my other half was working, to see grown adults running and dodging from them is a sight to behold. We've created an open air lunatic asylum.
Had a customer in this morning giving out about people on a beach yesterday with no mask, I don't usually get thick but I unleashed on him, his own mask looked like he just wiped his ass with it. I'm really starting to see these crazy people as a threat to humanity.

That’s it people didn’t have a choice and some were made to feel desperate for bringing their children with them. Unfortunately the last year has created so many divisions in our society and brought to the fore the wanna be dictators out there of which your guy above is, and there are plenty more like him. The filthy mask thing is something I have seen as well.Ugh..

Ashbourne hoop

seamus wrote: »

They're not.
An examiner headline isn't government policy.

The headline doesn't even match anything said in the article.

There will be no concept of a "vaccine passport" for access to domestic services in general, in Ireland.

I know that right now for a fact because it took nearly a year to get mandatory hotel quarantine in place.

By the time the logistical, constitutional and legislative frameworks would be in place to have an internal "vaccine passport" operating - even on emergency basis - we will be well over the herd immunity threshold for vaccinations, rendering the passes obsolete.

There may be some limited circumstances where someone cannot enter a facility without vaccination - such as hospitals or nursing homes. But there is no chance whatsoever that you will be forced to show a vaccine cert to go and have a pint in your local.

Exactly, it's never going to happen. There may be restrictions on international travel, but there won't on domestic services, completely unworkable.

I get the impression that some moaning about it on here, actually want it to happen so they can have something else to piss and moan about.

Ashbourne hoop

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Exactly, it's never going to happen. There may be restrictions on international travel, but there won't on domestic services, completely unworkable.

I get the impression that some moaning about it on here, actually want it to happen so they can have something else to piss and moan about.

It's happening in Israel. And the UK is set to trial it at concerts, football matches, theatre performances etc. And Health Passport Ireland wasn't developed for no reason either: https://www.healthpassportworldwide.com/

It was formerly Health Passport Ireland, then it became Health Passport Europe, and now it's Health Passport Worldwide.

But it's still called Health Passport Ireland on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthpassportireland/?hl=en

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

It's happening in Israel. And the UK is set to trial it at concerts, football matches, theatre performances etc.

None of that at all contradicts what I have said. Israel and the UK are two different jurisdictions with very different legal and social environments to ours.
Israel has for some reason seemed to have decided to slow down its vaccine rollout and open up its economy instead.

And Health Passport Ireland wasn't developed for no reason either: https://www.healthpassportworldwide.com/

It's a private venture that has received no traction in Ireland. The existence of a privately-operated app doesn't address the logistical and legal provisions that would be required to make it a thing in Ireland.

As I say, simply vaccinating 70% of the population is easier and quicker than making vaccine certificates mandatory. So that's what will happen.

Ashbourne hoop

Deleted User wrote: »

It's happening in Israel. And the UK is set to trial it at concerts, football matches, theatre performances etc. And Health Passport Ireland wasn't developed for no reason either: https://www.healthpassportworldwide.com/

It was formerly Health Passport Ireland, then it became Health Passport Europe, and now it's Health Passport Worldwide.

But it's still called Health Passport Ireland on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthpassportireland/?hl=en

Just had a look at the website. It also includes a negative test not just proof of vaccination. They may well be needed for travel or attending large sporting/cultural events, but for everyday services ? Can't see it to be honest.

It's far from ideal that they may be needed for concerts etc, but nothing in the past year has been far from ideal. If it meant that I could go to Tallaght and watch Rovers, I'd do it.

crossmolinalad

Deleted User wrote: »

Then why are shops and hairdressers set to open to vaccinated people only next month: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40260956.html

This is going to used everywhere, in my opinion. As demonstrated in the promo video for Health Passport Ireland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFerXipG-t0

Watch from 1:19 on. The narrator explains how and where the passport could be used.

shops and hairdressers open for vaccinated ones , okay are the employees and owners vaccinated also or are they allowed to open up unvaccinated ???

Ashbourne hoop

crossmolinalad wrote: »

shops and hairdressers open for vaccinated ones , okay are the employees and owners vaccinated also or are they allowed to open up unvaccinated ???

Which is why it'll be unworkable.....

SusanC10

seamus wrote: »

None of that at all contradicts what I have said. Israel and the UK are two different jurisdictions with very different legal and social environments to ours.
Israel has for some reason seemed to have decided to slow down its vaccine rollout and open up its economy instead.

It's a private venture that has received no traction in Ireland. The existence of a privately-operated app doesn't address the logistical and legal provisions that would be required to make it a thing in Ireland.

As I say, simply vaccinating 70% of the population is easier and quicker than making vaccine certificates mandatory. So that's what will happen.

I would be interested in your take on non-essestial travel within the EU without fines or MHQ. When is that likely ?

is_that_so

crossmolinalad wrote: »

shops and hairdressers open for vaccinated ones , okay are the employees and owners vaccinated also or are they allowed to open up unvaccinated ???

Kids are screwed as well! If today were a week ago you'd laugh at it.

Fighting Tao

Deleted User wrote: »

It's happening in Israel. And the UK is set to trial it at concerts, football matches, theatre performances etc. And Health Passport Ireland wasn't developed for no reason either: https://www.healthpassportworldwide.com/

It was formerly Health Passport Ireland, then it became Health Passport Europe, and now it's Health Passport Worldwide.

But it's still called Health Passport Ireland on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthpassportireland/?hl=en

Health passport Ireland was discussed in length in the conspiracy theory forum...it really does belong there. It is someones idea for a business. A year into the pandemic in Ireland and it still hasn't gotten off the ground as part of the Irish system, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for it.

seamus

SusanC10 wrote: »

I would be interested in your take on non-essestial travel within the EU without fines or MHQ. When is that likely ?

I expect it'll remain weird and slightly complicated within the EU at least until the middle of 2022.

Fines for non-essential travel will be gone by the end of June 2021, if not sooner.

The "green list" concept will continue to be used, and since practically all EU countries will be "green list" towards the end of the year, then travel within the EU will be largely unhindered by mid-late Summer 2021. However, until all EU countries have achieved herd immunity, there will still be caution.

So I expect to avoid quarantine, you will have to

- Have started your journey in a green list country, and
- Have proof of vaccination OR proof of recent negative PCR tests. Probably two tests a few days apart.

If someone comes from outside of a green list country (say coming from Brazil to Dublin via Frankfurt), then you will have to quarantine unless you have proof of vaccination that is recognised within the EU.

By early 2022, all EU member states will be functionally finished their vaccination programme, so the requirement for a vaccine passport will be eventually be dropped for intra-EU travel. But only where you start your journey in the EU.

Travellers from outside the EU will still need to show proof of vaccination, but the pool of countries that it doesn't apply to will expand quickly as the likes of the US, UK, Switzerland, etc., will all be vaccinated too and we don't want to hurt tourism.

If there are still virus hotspots in Summer 2022 that don't have it under control, the focus will be on controlling travel to and from these countries rather than trying to control ALL travel in and out.

We got fvcked so badly with this because the big hotspot was slap bang in the middle of the EU and nobody wanted to close down internal travel. If it had been Chile instead of Italy, everyone would have just cut Chile out of the loop without a second thought and it would never have spread. If there are virus hotspots in 2022, they will be poorer countries that will get cut off from the rest of the world without debate.

SusanC10

seamus wrote: »

I expect it'll remain weird and slightly complicated within the EU at least until the middle of 2022.

Fines for non-essential travel will be gone by the end of June 2021, if not sooner.

The "green list" concept will continue to be used, and since practically all EU countries will be "green list" towards the end of the year, then travel within the EU will be largely unhindered by mid-late Summer 2021. However, until all EU countries have achieved herd immunity, there will still be caution.

So I expect to avoid quarantine, you will have to

- Have started your journey in a green list country, and
- Have proof of vaccination OR proof of recent negative PCR tests. Probably two tests a few days apart.

If someone comes from outside of a green list country (say coming from Brazil to Dublin via Frankfurt), then you will have to quarantine unless you have proof of vaccination that is recognised within the EU.

By early 2022, all EU member states will be functionally finished their vaccination programme, so the requirement for a vaccine passport will be eventually be dropped for intra-EU travel. But only where you start your journey in the EU.

Travellers from outside the EU will still need to show proof of vaccination, but the pool of countries that it doesn't apply to will expand quickly as the likes of the US, UK, Switzerland, etc., will all be vaccinated too and we don't want to hurt tourism.

If there are still virus hotspots in Summer 2022 that don't have it under control, the focus will be on controlling travel to and from these countries rather than trying to control ALL travel in and out.

We got fvcked so badly with this because the big hotspot was slap bang in the middle of the EU and nobody wanted to close down internal travel. If it had been Chile instead of Italy, everyone would have just cut Chile out of the loop without a second thought and it would never have spread. If there are virus hotspots in 2022, they will be poorer countries that will get cut off from the rest of the world without debate.

Thank you for this. My head was hurting trying to make sense of everything.

One of my sisters lives in France having relocated there from the Middle East pre-Pandemic. We have not seen her and her family for 2 years.

spaceHopper

I'm an out and out tinfoil privacy hat wearer.
I think the Passport is bull, we don't need it, it's simply a way to grab information and set up a social credit control.

I believe in vaccines and I'll get vaccinated but ask yourself, why do we need this for covid.

If you chose not to get vaccinated ok I think you are an idiot but it's your body your right.
If you go to a festival, travel.... and get covid, your problem not mine. If you have it and spread it you are spreading it to other unvaccinated fools again your or their problem not mine.

The corner case is where there are people who can't take the vaccine. Come on really there are at least 4 affective vaccines, surely one of them will be suitable for you. If not well, wear a mask wash your hands because a vaccine pass port won't change that, life dealt you a bad card.

But think of the children, if they move they might miss one. Well it is up to their parents to make sure their kids get vaccinated and any way herd immunity will protect them so calm down and is it more than 0.1% of children?

If you think no the state wouldn't do such a thing!
Garda bugged their own phone lies to listen to calls between solicitors and suspects.
GSOC was bugged.
The scope of the PSC was expanded and changed till the DPC stepped in and found against them.
The Dept of Health build files on children with Autism in secret.

The concern from my perspective is that a COVID passport, Health ID or whatever name you want to call it is really just another name for mandatory ID. The fact that this is being driven by private companies and Governments rather than by public health is also a cause for concern considering how they have used private data in the past.

The real question should be, do Vaccine passports reduce transmission of the virus and the incidence of CV-19?

spaceHopper

spaceHopper wrote: »

I'm an out and out tinfoil privacy hat wearer.
I think the Passport is bull, we don't need it, it's simply a way to grab information and set up a social credit control.

I believe in vaccines and I'll get vaccinated but ask yourself, why do we need this for covid.

If you chose not to get vaccinated ok I think you are an idiot but it's your body your right.
If you go to a festival, travel.... and get covid, your problem not mine. If you have it and spread it you are spreading it to other unvaccinated fools again your or their problem not mine.

The corner case is where there are people who can't take the vaccine. Come on really there are at least 4 affective vaccines, surely one of them will be suitable for you. If not well, wear a mask wash your hands because a vaccine pass port won't change that, life dealt you a bad card.

But think of the children, if they move they might miss one. Well it is up to their parents to make sure their kids get vaccinated and any way herd immunity will protect them so calm down and is it more than 0.1% of children?

If you think no the state wouldn't do such a thing!
Garda bugged their own phone lies to listen to calls between solicitors and suspects.
GSOC was bugged.
The scope of the PSC was expanded and changed till the DPC stepped in and found against them.
The Dept of Health build files on children with Autism in secret.

How does the vaccine prevent transmission, I thought that a vaccine only prevents you from getting sick but you can still get infected and spread the virus?

Fighting Tao

brenbrady wrote: »

The concern from my perspective is that a COVID passport, Health ID or whatever name you want to call it is really just another name for mandatory ID. The fact that this is being driven by private companies and Governments rather than by public health is also a cause for concern considering how they have used private data in the past.

The real question should be, do Vaccine passports reduce transmission of the virus and the incidence of CV-19?

My 1 year old has a vaccine passport. It is a booklet that specifies that they received vaccines at specific dates.

Some countries specify that you need to be vaccinated against certain diseases to protect their population. All that is, is a piece of paper.

The number of people extrapolating more than it is likely to be (if it even comes into play!) is a bit crazy.

francogarbanzo

Fighting Tao wrote: »

My 1 year old has a vaccine passport. It is a booklet that specifies that they received vaccines at specific dates.

Some countries specify that you need to be vaccinated against certain diseases to protect their population. All that is, is a piece of paper.

The number of people extrapolating more than it is likely to be (if it even comes into play!) is a bit crazy.

Does your 1 year old have to show their vaccine passport to go to a restaurant or get a haircut?