EU Digital/paper! Certs, the Megathread - threadbans in OP

FileNotFound

rusty cole wrote: »

Can you imagine not wanting a vaccine and being totally coerced to get one for fear you say cannot visit your grandad anymore in a home as you're a threat to him, the staff, the florist you wanted to buy flowers from on the way to see him or even the Cafe owner who'm you've asked if you could used the toilet because you really need to go!! ALL off limits until you SEE SENSE and take the vaccine then get your passport to be show upon entry.

It's now been called a Vaccine BONUS..be a good person and you'll get a BONUS..that's physche speak think tank bull****, from the mouths of terry prone and the likes..it's not a passport guys or an ID, it' a Bonus....suffering Jesus!

I would have thought that non vaccination would merely mean that we have similar limits to what everyone had last year during the good period in the summer.

Then vaccinated people could be packed in tighter making businesses more viable etc.

To date I have seen nothing to say some new drastic totalitarian regime is coming, just that distancing and masks could be relaxed for the vaccinated.

I'll have to wait for my shot but see no issue with those who are vaccinated getting our economy going again. In the end when most of the population is vaccinated the few antivax will be let off as they will pose limited to no risk anymore.

rusty cole

rusty cole wrote: »

Can you imagine not wanting a vaccine and being totally coerced to get one for fear you say cannot visit your grandad anymore in a home as you're a threat to him, the staff, the florist you wanted to buy flowers from on the way to see him or even the Cafe owner who'm you've asked if you could used the toilet because you really need to go!! ALL off limits until you SEE SENSE and take the vaccine then get your passport to be show upon entry.

It's now been called a Vaccine BONUS..be a good person and you'll get a BONUS..that's physche speak think tank bull****, from the mouths of terry prone and the likes..it's not a passport guys or an ID, it' a Bonus....suffering Jesus!

Pure patronizing like you’d say to a child eat all your dinner and then you’ll get a treat. They’re even giving out badges to people after vaccine grown adults!! It’s like kindergarden.

All this nonsense will be quickly forgotten about once deaths and hospital numbers start falling across the globe.

And thank god!

I can’t wait to return to a world where it’s ok to stand outside with some friends and talk.

crossmolinalad

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My point is that nobody is upset about countries instituting vaccination requirements for crossing their borders. What they are concerned about is what Leo Varadkar envisions for Ireland:

https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-explains-how-vaccine-certificates-could-work-in-ireland-205432

Is he lying?

It's already happening anyway. We've learned today that fully vaccinated people starting in May will be able to get haircuts and use non-essential shops. They're going to have to prove that they're vaccinated somehow. If that "works," why wouldn't they extend it to indoor dining, pubs, etc.?

and what of all the shop owners and their employees??? are they all vaccinated or are they not allowed in their own shop because they are not vaccinated
It wont work before everyone had got a chance to get a vaccination

crossmolinalad

Lux23 wrote: »

I've had a vaccine passport since 2001.

nice for you but you dont need to show it for entering a pub , restaurant ,shop or concert ect

growleaves

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

Covid-19 vaccines are already proven effective, and my hope is that they're proven to be long-term safe. mRNA vaccines in particular have incredible potential for human medicine if so.

That said, nobody actually knows if they are long-term safe yet. It seems to me that institutions and governments, by making vaccines all but mandatory for anyone wanting to retrieve their freedoms, could be opening themselves up to the litigation that pharmaceutical companies have been given immunity to should any long-term safety issues arise.

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

Covid-19 vaccines are already proven effective, and my hope is that they're proven to be long-term safe. mRNA vaccines in particular have incredible potential for human medicine if so.

That said, nobody actually knows if they are long-term safe yet. It seems to me that institutions and governments, by making vaccines all but mandatory for anyone wanting to retrieve their freedoms, could be opening themselves up to the litigation that pharmaceutical companies have been given immunity to should any long-term safety issues arise.

In the EU under Conditional Marketing Approval that all COVID vaccines so far have approval under, the company making the medicine accepts liability, not the governments.

eeepaulo

AdamD wrote: »

What kind of society is it that locks their young away to protect their old, and then when their old are protected continues to lock their young away, unless of course they're needed to serve the older ones in restaurants they themselves aren't allowed attend?

Its absolutely mental.

All the young ones at the back of the queue are going to be applying to work in pubs.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

In the EU under Conditional Marketing Approval that all COVID vaccines so far have approval under, the company making the medicine accepts liability, not the governments.

Sure. But legal culpability can change if the government or institutional body compels or coerces people to take the medical treatment by, for example, making the medical treatment a pre-requisite to participating in a full and free life.

francogarbanzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGgvgKE0n8o

Famous anti-vax conspiracy theorist (obvious sarcasm) Russel Brand's take.

titan18

crossmolinalad wrote: »

nice for you but you dont need to show it for entering a pub , restaurant ,shop or concert ect

Ya, there's a big difference really. Vaccine passports for travelling internationally, I can actually understand. I know some will still be against that, but it's already the case for a lot of countries, it's just atm we've never needed it within the EU or the US so most would never have noticed they've always been there. Personally, I wouldn't mind needing to be vaccinated to travel internationally, especially later this year and next year as every country gets vaccinated.

For everyday life things like getting a haircut, going to a restaurant/bar or heading to a shop, it's far more restrictive. You can live your live without international travel, you can't really without the above.

Ashbourne hoop

titan18 wrote: »

Ya, there's a big difference really. Vaccine passports for travelling internationally, I can actually understand. I know some will still be against that, but it's already the case for a lot of countries, it's just atm we've never needed it within the EU or the US so most would never have noticed they've always been there. Personally, I wouldn't mind needing to be vaccinated to travel internationally, especially later this year and next year as every country gets vaccinated.

For everyday life things like getting a haircut, going to a restaurant/bar or heading to a shop, it's far more restrictive. You can live your live without international travel, you can't really without the above.

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure. But legal culpability can change if the government or institutional body compels or coerces people to take the medical treatment by, for example, making the medical treatment a pre-requisite to participating in a full and free life.

Legal culpability for administering an approved medicine cannot change by making it a pre-requisite. The only way it can change is if they withdraw the approval and approve under a different mechanism (all medicine applied up to that point would still have liability with the manufacturer).

titan18

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

Ya, I'd hope so, but it also just wouldn't surprise me at this stage. I'd be ok with for travel, particularly if it rules out needing tests (I'm hoping September/October for this) and then things like sporting/events this year or early 2022 as more vaccines happen and things get under control internationally again.

growleaves

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

I can see it happening for international travel, some countries already require vaccine passports for entry. Big sporting/music events possibly too, may be more short term too. For everyday things like going for a pint or a haircut ? I don't see it happening. It'll be a nightmare trying to police and admin for.

No one knows thus far. The important thing atm is to be opposed to a system of digital-ID control since we all help to create the world we live in by our choices and what we accept as moral.

ddarcy

growleaves wrote: »

Rutgers, Cornell and few other US universities are requiring vaccination for enrollment

Rutgers, Cornell mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students. Is this the new norm for college?

There are special exemptions for a few but this is still pretty bad.

The use of force and ultimatums seems to be the go-to for everything now.

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

Jim2007

AdamD wrote: »

What kind of society is it that locks their young away to protect their old, and then when their old are protected continues to lock their young away, unless of course they're needed to serve the older ones in restaurants they themselves aren't allowed attend?

Its absolutely mental.

We have no idea what so ever of the consequences of have had this virus are, it could be none or it could cause long term health issues. When you have no idea of the consequences, you take the minimum risk necessary not the maximum available.

Jim2007

ddarcy wrote: »

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

The first thing I got when I went to a Swiss doctor over 30 years ago was a vaccination card. Which has been updated every time I got a jab since then. And yes, vacations are required for school and college.

The amusing thing is that the Irish and UK government’s hold and widely share far more data about their citizens than most other countries do! They have to in order to accurately identify an individual. And that information needs to be available to even junior people in order to do their job. It can’t even be properly audited since it’s availability needs to be so wide spread.

arccosh

ddarcy wrote: »

Having gone to university in the US, every university requires a minimum vaccination in order to attend (hepatitis, measles,etc).This is nothing new. Just adding to the list. This has been going on for 50+ years. Same with going to any public school. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then you’re home schooled.

most visas for the US where you're staying over the normal "holiday period" require proof of vaccinations...

which was a real pain when I was applying for a visa, as the change from regional health boards to the HSE meant records were lost or didnt match up....

if I didn't have proof, I'd have to get them done again...

A lot of countries have this in place, we don't see in in Europe as much as it's part of being in the Union that it's assumed you are vaccinated as per EU health requirements for free travel..... and even if you're not, there's heard immunity which will help suppress any outbreaks of anything....

the UK after leaving the EU actually have a similar vaccine requirement for some of their new Visas

Seanachai

iguana wrote: »

And you can feel free to make your own choice. But don't be surprised when other people choose not to be in a building with you.

Maybe we need to look at segregation? I only want to socialise with my close friends anyway, so I don't really care who's in the background.

FileNotFound

Hopefully if the program is delayed, the gov can bring in some kind of system to identify vaccinated people.

At least then indoor seating in a restaurant can be capacity etc, meaning businesses can be viable again. Same with hotels and other hospitality.

Really need to get the economy moving and reduce the support payments as soon as we can.

is_that_so

FileNotFound wrote: »

Hopefully if the program is delayed, the gov can bring in some kind of system to identify vaccinated people.

At least then indoor seating in a restaurant can be capacity etc, meaning businesses can be viable again. Same with hotels and other hospitality.

Really need to get the economy moving and reduce the support payments as soon as we can.

A simpler approach would be to race through vaccinations to that promised 80%.

FileNotFound

is_that_so wrote: »

A simpler approach would be to race through vaccinations to that promised 80%.

Oh I entirely agree, thus i specified if the vaccine rollout is delayed.

I am all for just get it done, but sadly reality doesn't always comply with my wishes and wants.

If there is to be any major delay, I feel as a non vaccinated, not a hope of being vaccinated any time soon person that it would be important to get the economy up and running as soon as possible.

I wouldn't hold it against someone that they can sit in a tighter packed location if it meant less future tax take is needed to recover from this. It would only be for a few months anyway.

Spanish Eyes

Sorry if this has been already covered, but IF vax certs are required are they secure and verifiable? In the back of my mind I can see a lucrative trade in bogus certs.

But I am probably overthinking it, I am sure the documents will be bulletproof evidence that you have been vaccinated.

FileNotFound

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry if this has been already covered, but IF vax certs are required are they secure and verifiable? In the back of my mind I can see a lucrative trade in bogus certs.

But I am probably overthinking it, I am sure the documents will be bulletproof evidence that you have been vaccinated.

There will be some scamming but like dodgy tv boxes the numbers will be small so hardly worth considering.

At least that would be my thoughts.

FileNotFound

FileNotFound wrote: »

Hopefully if the program is delayed, the gov can bring in some kind of system to identify vaccinated people.

At least then indoor seating in a restaurant can be capacity etc, meaning businesses can be viable again. Same with hotels and other hospitality.

Really need to get the economy moving and reduce the support payments as soon as we can.

What difference will a vaccine, or identifying who is vaccinated, make to indoor dining?

FileNotFound

brenbrady wrote: »

What difference will a vaccine, or identifying who is vaccinated, make to indoor dining?

As Vaccines - based on whats happening in the UK at least exponentially reduce transmission then restriction on distancing would not required.

That way a restaurant could fill to standard capacity - which would make them viable.

scamalert

brenbrady wrote: »

What difference will a vaccine, or identifying who is vaccinated, make to indoor dining?

none, at best if its implemented it will be used as a green pass for travel, then again if you think about logistics creating manually database of 3mill people securing it, then handing over details to other eu states to use, its very unlikely, that any viable option will be created before its more likely to be scrapped as need will diminish in a year or two anyway.


since this can only work if other countries reach herd immunity and their vaccination targets on top, which at this rate is still months away, like ourselves.


better hope would be to use rapid tests and bring their cost down making traveling easier, say while one awaits at airport or can purchase in any store, eliminating massive money waste on something that will be eventually not needed.

is_that_so

Seems certs/passports won't be needed for a haircut!