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Just where does this end?

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2

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    #32
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Huh?


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    #33
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Ah come on. This story is rumbling in the media for last few days, maybe a week. Not because it's so important but because it's bonkers.

    There is another story about Megan Three Stallion Harper Bazaar cover which was styled by black stylist.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/music/2021/feb/22/harpers-bazaar-megan-thee-stallion-cover

    This kind of stuff is a proof that Twitter makes people stupid. It's not about white vs black it's about morons getting disproportionate amount of attention.


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    #34
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Maybe if you had tried shouting STOP when black people were routinely being shot or choked by US police forces, perhaps you wouldn't need to be so concerned about racial division arising from poetry translation policies?
    How is it even possible to draw a line from police violence to forcing translators to have the same skin colour (only when black of course) as an author?


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    #35
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    Barack Obama's memoir A Promised Land was translated into Dutch by Rebekka W. R. Bremmer, Bep Fontijn, Frans Reusink and Edzard Krol. Surprise, surprise ... none of these translators is black, either. And I doubt that either President Obama or any readers of his book actually cared.


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    #36
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    biko wrote: »
    How is it even possible to draw a line from police violence to forcing translators to have the same skin colour (only when black of course) as an author?

    You didn't feel the need to question how it was possible to draw a line from poetry translation in Netherlands to " the white "allies" are going to be so alienated and persecuted "?


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    #37
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »

    Sorry I can't stay around for the full discussion. There's a theatre company in southern Albania getting funded for diversity initiatives that I need to get all riled up about today.

    Ok have fun.


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    #38
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Ah come on. This story is rumbling in the media for last few days, maybe a week. Not because it's so important but because it's bonkers.

    .

    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.


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    #39
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.

    Whose 'riled up'? It's more of a rolling of the eyes. Do you think it's OK for someone to be pressured into standing down for a particular role based solely on their skin colour?

    The people doing the pressuring are racists, and as it's not the violent type of racism such as you posted earlier, and because it's direcylted at a certain skin colour, it largely gets a free pass. Racism is racism and in my opinion should always be challenged, regardless of what form it comes in.


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    #40
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.

    Im not making an argument or anything here, I genuinely don't fully get what your objection is. You feel its unfair for people to talk about an event or story if they haven't been talked about or has interaction with the subjects involved, before the events took place ?


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    #41
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.

    Maybe stick to something else for your news but Boards or Twitter. Both The Times and Guardian covered it in UK media.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/01/amanda-gorman-white-translator-quits-marieke-lucas-rijneveld

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-wont-translate-amanda-gormans-work-insists-white-author-0xzsdfmtn


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    #42
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Maybe stick to something else for your news but Board or Twitter. Both The Times and Guardian covered it in UK media.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/01/amanda-gorman-white-translator-quits-marieke-lucas-rijneveld

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-wont-translate-amanda-gormans-work-insists-white-author-0xzsdfmtn

    Indeed, the Guardian is were I first came across it aswell.


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    #43
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.

    Well, let's see -- the Guardian, the Independent, the Times, the Associated Press and multiple international newspapers have all covered the story.

    Maybe you need to read more broadly?


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    #44
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Im not making an argument or anything here, I genuinely don't fully get what your objection is. You feel its unfair for people to talk about an event or story if they haven't been talked about or has interaction with the subjects involved, before the events took place ?

    I didn't say that it is unfair.

    I did say that it is a good indication that the people really aren't that bothered about poetry translation protocols in the Netherlands.


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    #45
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Whose 'riled up'?

    Most of the posters on this thread.


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    #46
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    I did say that it is a good indication that the people really aren't that bothered about poetry translation protocols in the Netherlands.

    People are bothered that an International Booker Prize–winning author was pressured to step down from a high-profile translation assignment because their skin was the wrong colour.

    You'd like to pretend that this is all about "poetry translation protocols" when it's really about racial discrimination.


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    #47
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Most of the posters on this thread.

    Oh I didn't know you yourself were riled up. I'm perfectly calm. I simply think it's a bit ridiculous tis all.


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    #48
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The only place I come across these issues is from the usual triggered suspects on Boards getting all riled up about topics they never had any interest in before.

    Yeah it’s all well and good dismissing this as mindless twitter noise but it isn’t. That’s just a fact. A lot of this stuff is pumped out via prominent media sources. Even left wing academics are now pointing out a stifling of freedom of expression and hounding of staff on spurious grounds, many large corporations now push things like critical race theory and privilege theory in mandatory training sessions. Here in England we had a Labour shadow minister arguing for this stuff to be put on the curriculum thus making the party look like muppets when a black Tory minister rubbished the idea.

    Your points about the horrible grinding racism in the USA and other places aren’t wrong, but acknowledging that doesn’t mean we have to embrace this other nonsense either. Pretending that swathes of the liberal left have hamstrung themselves with this crap helps nobody.


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    #49
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Yeah it’s all well and good dismissing this as mindless twitter noise but it isn’t. That’s just a fact. A lot of this stuff is pumped out via prominent media sources. Even left wing academics are now pointing out a stifling of freedom of expression and hounding of staff on spurious grounds, many large corporations now push things like critical race theory and privilege theory in mandatory training sessions. Here in England we had a Labour shadow minister arguing for this stuff to be put on the curriculum thus making the party look like muppets when a black Tory minister rubbished the idea.

    Your points about the horrible grinding racism in the USA and other places aren’t wrong, but acknowledging that doesn’t mean we have to embrace this other nonsense either. Pretending that swathes of the liberal left have hamstrung themselves with this crap helps nobody.

    Tis all a bit strange, the last time Ireland had this sort of stuff eminent in it's society it could be argued that those that were left-wing were the ones to mostly fall foul of it. The most prominent example being the disgraceful decision by RTE to not have SF politicians appear on the station. We should know better, and I hope, as a result of how things were up to even 30 years ago, we don't properly import this ****e from America (of the left or right kind).


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Maybe if you had tried shouting STOP when black people were routinely being shot or choked by US police forces, perhaps you wouldn't need to be so concerned about racial division arising from poetry translation policies?

    I don't see the connection - can you elaborate?

    Also - you need to look up the definition of the word "routinely".


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    #51
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Invidious wrote: »
    Well, let's see -- the Guardian, the Independent, the Times, the Associated Press and multiple international newspapers have all covered the story.

    Maybe you need to read more broadly?

    Isn't it amazing though out of all of the things happening in the world reported in all those newspapers, this is the issue deemed worthy of its own thread on Boards?


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    #52
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don't see the connection - can you elaborate?

    Also - you need to look up the definition of the word "routinely".

    Are you for real? You jumped from poetry translation protocols in Netherlands to victimised white people having to shout STOP, and you ask ME to explain the connection?

    white people are going to have to eventually shout "STOP" to the constant demands, or else the white "allies" are going to be so alienated and persecuted that they will switch sides and join the "Far Right". Then there will be a completely racially divided America along racial and ideological lines. A scary prospect.


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    #53
    francois
    Registered Users Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭francois


    Oh goody another culture wars thread


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Person with most posts in a thread tells everyone else they're all riled up.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Are you for real? You jumped from poetry translation protocols in Netherlands to victimised white people having to shout STOP, and you ask ME to explain the connection?

    white people are going to have to eventually shout "STOP" to the constant demands, or else the white "allies" are going to be so alienated and persecuted that they will switch sides and join the "Far Right". Then there will be a completely racially divided America along racial and ideological lines. A scary prospect.

    Where is the connection from poetry to supposed police brutality? What I am referring to is this discrimination in the name of equality, i.e. insisting on white people making way for black people, based solely on the colour of their skin.

    That's got nothing to do with police brutality.


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    #56
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,115 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Where is the connection from poetry to supposed police brutality? What I am referring to is this discrimination in the name of equality, i.e. insisting on white people making way for black people, based solely on the colour of their skin.

    That's got nothing to do with police brutality.
    Where is the connection between poetry translation in Netherlands and a "completely racially divided America along racial and ideological lines. A scary prospect" as you set out above?


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    #57
    Dave0301
    Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Dave0301


    I hadn't picked up on this in the media and was enjoying the first few posts of this thread and went and did my own reading as well.

    It is a pity that people that can't defend this behaviour then try to deflect and strawman the thread to shut down any sort of debate. Not interested in right or wrong, just reasoned and logical debate.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Where is the connection between poetry translation in Netherlands and a "completely racially divided America along racial and ideological lines. A scary prospect" as you set out above?

    Because the first thing is a symptom of a wider trend, and thinking logically about where that trend leads to is to the second outcome.


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    #59
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Isn't it amazing though out of all of the things happening in the world reported in all those newspapers, this is the issue deemed worthy of its own thread on Boards?

    Mod:

    If you don't like the topic, don't post in the thread, it really is that simple. Do not derail the thread like this again


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    #60
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/10/not-suitable-catalan-translator-for-amanda-gorman-poem-removed?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Another writer removed as they are not black and female. More racism and sexism by the very people who would proclaim to be fighting against it.


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    #61
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/10/not-suitable-catalan-translator-for-amanda-gorman-poem-removed?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Another writer removed as they are not black and female. More racism and sexism by the very people who would proclaim to be fighting against it.

    It seems that this is going to play out on translations of her work everywhere, regardless. Those wanting to do so are seeking out some of the best in their field. That said she may or may not actually turn out to be a good poet long-term and the translations could be poor but if it even encourages people to read poetry that is a good thing. More's the pity another layer of exclusivity has been added to the generally little read genre.


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