Gordon Elliott photograph

Muahahaha

Bluwave wrote: »

So that’s another few things to add to the dislike about horse racing column.

The employees of the trainers are poorly paid and put in physical danger and this exploitation is excused because the people who are exploited love horses.

There is plenty of money in racing, so there is no need for anyone to be poorly paid.

Yeah would certainly seem so according to this article. The employees who work in the yards are classed as 'agricultural workers' and therefore they are not covered under employment and minimum wage legislation. Which means they are easily exploited because of their love for horses and the promise that one day they might get to be a jockey

At the time, O'Brien the elder was busy challenging a Workplace Relations Commission ruling against his Ballydoyle stable which said that employees worked 19-hour days and 28 days on the bounce. His retort wasn't that they didn't, rather it was an insight into the mindset. He argued training racehorses is exempt from working-hour rules because it is classed as an agricultural enterprise; Robbie Manton, head of the yard, talked of a telepathic bond with animals meaning it was hard for staff to stay away; Clem Murphy, the bloodstock consultant added, "They can have a rest, read a book, lie down [in the bunks in horseboxes]. There's plenty of downtime".

Racing had long traded on such attitudes and excuses. Somehow it still does.

Back in November that Ballydoyle appeal may have failed but all along there were those that were far too important with far too much at stake. It's a year since Minister for Agriculture, Fine Gael's Michael Creed, pushed on regardless for horse racing to be exempt from such workplace legislation around stable staff, and according to insiders the level of lobbying grew and then grew some more. Eventually, such was the weight and the pressure, that in December it led his party colleague, Minister for Employment Regina Doherty, to hand the industry right back its agricultural rights.

One showjumping trainer was reported to have had their stable staff sleeping in the stables with the horses at night time

Given that, if you want horror tales as the anecdotal behind the empirical, they aren't hard to unearth.

One leading trainer during end-of-day inspections expects a plat made of bedding straw, that takes about 30 minutes to complete, to be hung from each stable door. "It's to show who's in charge," says a source who knows well what seems punishment more than procedure. "He tears them apart to make sure you can't use it again the next day." Another trainer expects staff to show to church on Sunday mornings off as if they didn't, "you best not show on Monday".

"It's not just racing either," says a former stable worker who got out to become a farrier. "There is one prominent show-jumper - and this isn't uncommon in any equine field - and his staff start at six, get 20 minutes of a break where food is bought in for them as if to say this makes it okay, finish at 11 that night, and head up to a room above the stable with mold on the walls and a stink in the place before starting at six again. Lads at the bottom, they might have a claim, they want to be jockeys for instance. They are told that if you do this and then you do that, you'll get this ride but they don't. Next thing they're in their 40s, alcoholics, still chasing the dream."

This person concluded: "That's what the industry runs on. It'll never change."

https://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/ewan-mackenna-the-sport-of-kings-built-on-elitism-and-wealth-but-why-does-it-come-at-a-cost-for-staff-37839298.html

Kaybaykwah

waterfordwendy wrote: »

I'm sure it's been mentioned in the thread so far but as bad as this story is why has the hor$e racing community not been outraged by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum locking up two of his daughters against their will? Money really talks, even in cancel culture.

One doesn't cancel the other out. They are complimentary, like a bronze horse miniature and a Wedgewood porcelain girl on either side of the mantel.

xl500

This reaction to this photo is ott in the extreme and it's trial by social media

I know nothing about the circumstances of the pic as do most people but everyone of us have done something we are ashamed of at some time but to say the man's license etc should be taken is mad

It's like hanging someone before the trial let the horse racing board do its enquiry and if he has a case to answer then so be it take his punishment but this trial by media is crazy

And add for Jack Chambers getting involved it's mad

Kaybaykwah

xl500 wrote: »

This reaction to this photo is ott in the extreme and it's trial by social media

I know nothing about the circumstances of the pic as do most people but everyone of us have done something we are ashamed of at some time but to say the man's license etc should be taken is mad

It's like hanging someone before the trial let the horse racing board do its enquiry and if he has a case to answer then so be it take his punishment but this trial by media is crazy

And add for Jack Chambers getting involved it's mad

You win some, you lose some. This guy is nothing without the media, let him sweat it out.

JP Liz V1

Awful

anewme

[quote="xl500;116457797"

And add for Jack Chambers getting involved it's mad[/quote]

Is he the Minister of State for Sport?

zerosugarbuzz

xl500 wrote: »

This reaction to this photo is ott in the extreme and it's trial by social media

I know nothing about the circumstances of the pic as do most people but everyone of us have done something we are ashamed of at some time but to say the man's license etc should be taken is mad

It's like hanging someone before the trial let the horse racing board do its enquiry and if he has a case to answer then so be it take his punishment but this trial by media is crazy

And add for Jack Chambers getting involved it's mad

The vast majority of us have never straddled a dead animal and gave two fingers while on the phone and having our photo taken, smiling.

xl500

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

The vast majority of us have never straddled a dead animal and gave two fingers while on the phone and having our photo taken, smiling.

Doesn't matter the man is entitled to a fair hearing

anewme

xl500 wrote: »

Doesn't matter the man is entitled to a fair hearing

All entitled to due process.

The situation won’t change though.

There’s not some major piece of information missing that could make this any more palatable.

He’s made his own position untenable. Happened to loads of people in the past, that’s just the way it goes.

dickdasr1234

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

The vast majority of us have never straddled a dead animal and gave two fingers while on the phone and having our photo taken, smiling.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority who comment have never worked with horses much less managed a large, successful racing stable with all the demands that entails.

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

It was a dumb, thoughtless thing to do. No more, no less.

I can only be grateful that my actions have not been recorded and subjected to the same relentless scrutiny as, I imagine, should the majority of posters of the scathing and unjustified criticism.

Does no one consider the cruelty of their comments about a fellow human being?

The wanton speculation and gossip says much about the 'caring' society we live in.

You need to have a wee look at yourselves.

zerosugarbuzz

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority who comment have never worked with horses much less managed a large, successful racing stable with all the demands that entails.

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

It was a dumb, thoughtless thing to do. No more, no less.

I can only be grateful that my actions have not been recorded and subjected to the same relentless scrutiny as, I imagine, should the majority of posters of the scathing and unjustified criticism.

Does no one consider the cruelty of their comments about a fellow human being?

The wanton speculation and gossip says much about the 'caring' society we live in.

You need to have a wee look at yourselves.

Can only speak for myself but have owned horses including ex national hunt racers. I know what goes on.

Kaybaykwah

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority who comment have never worked with horses much less managed a large, successful racing stable with all the demands that entails.

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

It was a dumb, thoughtless thing to do. No more, no less.

I can only be grateful that my actions have not been recorded and subjected to the same relentless scrutiny as, I imagine, should the majority of posters of the scathing and unjustified criticism.

Does no one consider the cruelty of their comments about a fellow human being?

The wanton speculation and gossip says much about the 'caring' society we live in.

You need to have a wee look at yourselves.

Where does that holier-than-thou comment come from? High-horseism, maybe?

Mr.burgess

All trainers will now make sure you put all phones away while at work

BENDYBINN

Mr.burgess wrote: »

All trainers will now make sure you put all phones away while at work

All trainers will keep well away from a dead horse....

dickdasr1234

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Where does that holier-than-thou comment come from? High-horseism, maybe?

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

Shelby Foote

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

It's not the end of the world, what he did.

It looks very amateurish. You wouldn't see Jim Bolger or Willie Mullins up on a dead animal acting the clown. He's obviously a top trainer and treats his animals well. Just the sense of humour he has and the lads around him seem to be acting like teenagers.

I think he's going to get a worse punishment than he should get. Unfortunately sometimes you suffer more for being a clown than being seriously bad\evil. Like you have Michael Lowry in Tipp getting away with far worse and brazenly whoring it out. Like stealing 100,000s, maybe millions from the state is a lot worse.

Kaybaykwah

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

He is facing the court of public opinion. He can have his day in court and plead ignorance, or find another defence on the airwaves. He hasn't been shackled yet, nor has he been lynched by a mob.

To say that the naysayers are ignorant of context is just as bad as an accused person in civil or criminal court pleading ignorance of the law. It just doesn't bode well for anyone invoking this type of argument.

suicide_circus

He won't face a court because he committed no crime.

People who don't like sports involving animals will use this to the fullest obviously. Cynical but understandable.

What i don't understand are the people flat out eating ikea horse meatballs clutching their pearls over a tasteless photo.

Gregor Samsa

dickdasr1234 wrote: »

99% of the comments here are born of complete ignorance of the realities that pertain generally in such an environment never mind the specifics of the moment.

Most of the non-horsey people here and on other media are going to forget about this in a couple of day's time. Move onto something else. That's human nature, regardless of the topic. You do it, I do it, we all do it.

But if it's all big nothing that the non-horsey set just don't understand, then why did Elliot apologise for it at all? Why did he call it an "indefensible moment of madness"? Why did he say "It is indefensible. Whether alive or dead, the horse was entitled to dignity." and "I just hope people can understand how truly sorry I am and find some way to forgive me for what I have done." Why would he be grovelling like this just to appease people with only a passing interest in the story who aren't going to remember his name in a few week's time?

It's from within the horse racing industry itself that the most vehement criticism seems to be coming from. You can't accuse them of "complete ignorance" of what goes in in their own industry. Why are they so vocal about condemning him?

Maybe it's self preservation, but the fact remains that it is them and their opinions that will make or break him - his peers in the industry, not random commenters on Boards. And at the moment, it looks like they're not happy with what he's done at all.

anewme

suicide_circus wrote: »

What i don't understand are the people flat out eating ikea horse meatballs clutching their pearls over a tasteless photo.

Weird as bejaysus.

Didn’t even know there was such a thing as horse meatballs in IKEA.

JJayoo

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

But if it's all big nothing that the non-horsey set just don't understand, then why did Elliot apologise for it at all? Why did he call it an "indefensible moment of madness"? Why did he say "It is indefensible. Whether alive or dead, the horse was entitled to dignity." and "I just hope people can understand how truly sorry I am and find some way to forgive me for what I have done." Why would he be grovelling like this just to appease people with only a passing interest in the story who aren't going to remember his name in a few week's time?
.

Have you been hibernating for the past few years? The braying mob is demanding his head and he is gonna roll on his belly, like every other individual who twitter decends on, and beg for mercy because his career is now in the hands of social media justice.

Fake outrage paired with fake apologies is the new norm

I really can't

caveat emptor

Davy Russel blaming camera phones for it.

tom1ie

caveat emptor wrote: »

Davy Russel blaming camera phones for it.

That was a very strange interview.

caveat emptor

tom1ie wrote: »

That was a very strange interview.

Yeah fairly weird. Either terrified of what he might say or very sad. Could of course be both.

Normal One

caveat emptor wrote: »

Davy Russel blaming camera phones for it.

Isn't he the strange midget who punched a horse?

Mr.burgess

caveat emptor wrote: »

Davy Russel blaming camera phones for it.

There a curse back to the nokia 3310 days i say

Gregor Samsa

JJayoo wrote: »

Have you been hibernating for the past few years? The braying mob is demanding his head and he is gonna roll on his belly, like every other individual who twitter decends on, and beg for mercy because his career is now in the hands of social media justice.

Fake outrage paired with fake apologies is the new norm

I really can't

The fact remains that it's his own peers that have condemned him - what Twitter or Boards says really doesn't matter. Even Michel O'Leary - while saying he'd stick with him, described it as a "grievous but momentary lapse of judgement" and "unacceptable". They're strong words for something a few people here are saying is a nothing event. You can hardly call O'Leary one of the snowflake twitterati now, can you?

lucernarian

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

The fact remains that it's his own peers that have condemned him - what Twitter or Boards says really doesn't matter. Even Michel O'Leary - while saying he'd stick with him, described it as a "grievous but momentary lapse of judgement" and "unacceptable". They're strong words for something a few people here are saying is a nothing event. You can hardly call O'Leary one of the snowflake twitterati now, can you?

With the logic of some eejits here apparently you can.

Wasn't that an awful interview on primetime too.

CB19Kevo

The industry cares because as always its about money..
Bad PR leads to less money coming through, The betting companys, the sponsors, Gordon.. They dont give a damn.
I'm not for one second saying the majority of assistants on the ground are doing anything wrong,thats important to say..

Having worked at racecourses, time and time again you see the bluecross pullup and bullet in the head.. Like it was just part of racing.
These beautful animals and thats the level that they are pushed to.

Well f**k the industry and maybe those betting on races should have a think about what they are supporting....

xl500

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

He is facing the court of public opinion. He can have his day in court and plead ignorance, or find another defence on the airwaves. He hasn't been shackled yet, nor has he been lynched by a mob.

To say that the naysayers are ignorant of context is just as bad as an accused person in civil or criminal court pleading ignorance of the law. It just doesn't bode well for anyone invoking this type of argument.

Oh but he has been shackled his horses are not being allowed in Uk