Gordon Elliott photograph

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

That was a very strange interview.

Where was that on?

fryup

any jokes yet?

Doctors room ghost

kippy wrote: »

Where was that on?

Prime time

kippy

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Most of the non-horsey people here and on other media are going to forget about this in a couple of day's time. Move onto something else. That's human nature, regardless of the topic. You do it, I do it, we all do it.

But if it's all big nothing that the non-horsey set just don't understand, then why did Elliot apologise for it at all? Why did he call it an "indefensible moment of madness"? Why did he say "It is indefensible. Whether alive or dead, the horse was entitled to dignity." and "I just hope people can understand how truly sorry I am and find some way to forgive me for what I have done." Why would he be grovelling like this just to appease people with only a passing interest in the story who aren't going to remember his name in a few week's time?

It's from within the horse racing industry itself that the most vehement criticism seems to be coming from. You can't accuse them of "complete ignorance" of what goes in in their own industry. Why are they so vocal about condemning him?

Maybe it's self preservation, but the fact remains that it is them and their opinions that will make or break him - his peers in the industry, not random commenters on Boards. And at the moment, it looks like they're not happy with what he's done at all.

It appears to be self preservation - amongst all else.
And while this might be a cynical view, I deem it to be true.
Some of what goes on in Horse racing is beyong deplorable yet it goes on. Those in the sport condeming Elliot there while other acts, worse than this happen every day in the sport, is just mental gymnastic by them.
There's a bit possibly, from some angles, of wanting a highly successful trainer knocked down a bit as well in fairness - lots of vested interests there.

Kaybaykwah

xl500 wrote: »

Oh but he has been shackled his horses are not being allowed in Uk

Yes. It may be an unwritten law. Be wise to how you behave when it can end up on social media.

He is paying a price that would not have been an issue when smartphones and the internet weren't around, but that is what it is about.

I agree with those who say there are a lot worse things happening both within and outside that industry. The problem is wider than the image it presents, but it is indicative of the wanton disregard for animals, and even for caretakers of animals in that context.

I'm less worried about him, he'll be back to his old ways, or maybe his outlook will have improved. But animals will always have an uphill battle in this ever growing human environment.

theoneeyedman

The Racing Industry doesn't care about dumb animals, either horses or the people who throw away hard earned money to the likes of Paddy Power/Betfair backing the horses.

JJayoo

Anyone else seen the video circulating of the busy bar supposedly at his stables?

No idea when the video was actually taken but it's been 'reported' as a bar they set up because off the lockdown

But like I said could be taken a few years ago

Doctors room ghost

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Prime time

Anyone got a link to Davy Russell interview on Prime Time ?

Bluwave

The only real victims of this are Elliots employees, the ones that will shortly be his former employees when he doesn’t Have a need for them because of the lack of horses to train. These are people who work hard and are dedicated to their job. You would feel sorry for them.

Maybe they should have chosen a more scrupulous employer, maybe they will get work elsewhere but they are the ones that will lose the most in the short term.


Elliot is losing out in income, he will surely get a hefty fine and his reputation is damaged, but he’s not a victim, he’s the perpetrator and only has himself to blame.

A very serious and unsavoury incident for which Elliot is paying the price. Do I think his empire should fall over a single incident. No. If more things emerge with proof then I will change my mind.

What has taken me aback is the sheer level of vilification being aimed at him on social media. It is absolutely torrid stuff. People have lost all sense of reality as they dish out abuse at a single individual in their 10s of thousands.

Elliott posted a note to a person who passed over a week ago on his twitter. The same post now has a trail of comments on it "Did you sit on him".

It's far far too much. He has paid a heavy price and people need to cop on and back off.

Elliott is not a victim in this whole thing, it's of his own doing but really the mob need to calm down. They are collectively losing their minds to destroy a single individual.

ThewhiteJesus

Jason Victorious Tea wrote: »

A very serious and unsavoury incident for which Elliot is paying the price. Do I think his empire should fall over a single incident. No. If more things emerge with proof then I will change my mind.

What has taken me aback is the sheer level of vilification being aimed at him on social media. It is absolutely torrid stuff. People have lost all sense of reality as they dish out abuse at a single individual in their 10s of thousands.

Elliott posted a note to a person who passed over a week ago on his twitter. The same post now has a trail of comments on it "Did you sit on him".

It's far far too much. He has paid a heavy price and people need to cop on and back off.

Elliott is not a victim in this whole thing, it's of his own doing but really the mob need to calm down. They are collectively losing their minds to destroy a single individual.

it's such a stupid thing to do though, i can't think of anyone in the world that would be so stupid i mean it really boggles the mind

Bobeagleburger

JJayoo wrote: »

Anyone else seen the video circulating of the busy bar supposedly at his stables?

No idea when the video was actually taken but it's been 'reported' as a bar they set up because off the lockdown

But like I said could be taken a few years ago

The outraged clan on Twitter are probably all over it.

joseywhales

Jason Victorious Tea wrote: »

A very serious and unsavoury incident for which Elliot is paying the price. Do I think his empire should fall over a single incident. No. If more things emerge with proof then I will change my mind.

What has taken me aback is the sheer level of vilification being aimed at him on social media. It is absolutely torrid stuff. People have lost all sense of reality as they dish out abuse at a single individual in their 10s of thousands.

Elliott posted a note to a person who passed over a week ago on his twitter. The same post now has a trail of comments on it "Did you sit on him".

It's far far too much. He has paid a heavy price and people need to cop on and back off.

Elliott is not a victim in this whole thing, it's of his own doing but really the mob need to calm down. They are collectively losing their minds to destroy a single individual.

I just find it a stupid and silly incident. It's clearly a disproportionate reaction. You wouldn't see this reaction to the actual drugging of live horses in the past. At the end of the day, nothing criminal happened here, no evidence of cruelty, just some clown in a photo with a lump of dead meat. Nothing really should happen to him, if owners feel that their livestock is in jeopardy then by all means remove them from his care but I don't see any reason really to believe he mistreats his animals any more than other trainers. Surely this would be evidenced by his extensive history not managing horses. Like he probably has the volume to do a statistical analysis on risk of death and injury compared to other trainers. I wouldn't be using some photo and a social media storm to make big decisions on valuable assets.

I would use it to get a discount though!

Mob mentality and trial by social media are things I really really dislike. Outrage isn't always authentic. Those who display it can do so because it helps them feel superior, morally better people, underneath they don't really care about the issue. That photo though. It made me sad to see it. I can't square loving horses with sitting on their dead bodies. I can't square working closely with them and not caring for and respecting them.

How in the name of Jaysus did Gordon Elliott think it was ok to just sit on the animal. My OH and I were having a chat about this last night and he made the point that Gordon may see the horses as commodities. During their lives he treats them well but wouldn't have an emotional connection to them and when they die well that's that.

We agreed to disagree because its not a job I think you can do without feeling connected to the animals. They aren't objects. They are intuitive and intelligent creatures.

I don't think he is a bad man and I think the language used should be less hysterical. He is a person who is directly involved with horses though so I do think there should be some consequence for his action.

Foggy Jew

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone got a link to Davy Russell interview on Prime Time ?

It's on the RTE player. I watched it this morning. It's excruciating.

Foggy Jew

Foggy Jew wrote: »

It's on the RTE player. I watched it this morning. It's excruciating.

yeah i got it too, its awful stuff, he certainly wasn't very articulate

Guy does something silly and distasteful.
To a horse. That was dead.
Some time ago.

No one hurt, no one injured.

Guy now stands to lose everything.

Welcome to 21st century justice. Manufactured outrage. Appeasement of the mob.

blanch152

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Guy does something silly and distasteful.
To a horse. That was dead.
Some time ago.

No one hurt, no one injured.

Guy now stands to lose everything.

Welcome to 21st century justice. Manufactured outrage. Appeasement of the mob.

If he was a fireman or a doctor or a politician, or some other line or work, then you have a point.

However, he was in charge of looking after horses wellbeing. Losing his job if he is an employee, or his business if he is an businessman (who should know better) is the price you will pay in such situations.

dmc17

Foggy Jew wrote: »

It's on the RTE player. I watched it this morning. It's excruciating.

Excruciating is the only word for it. Just watched it there. Reminded me of this :pac:

joe40

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Guy does something silly and distasteful.
To a horse. That was dead.
Some time ago.

No one hurt, no one injured.

Guy now stands to lose everything.

Welcome to 21st century justice. Manufactured outrage. Appeasement of the mob.

It's not some random twitter mob it's the racing industry that is turning on him. They wouldn't be known for an overly PC attitude.

If the owners and bookies didn't mind then the feelings of people not connected to racing would have no bearing on this.

walshb

joe40 wrote: »

It's not some random twitter mob it's the racing industry that is turning on him. They wouldn't be known for an overly PC attitude.

If the owners and bookies didn't mind then the feelings of people not connected to racing would have no bearing on this.

An outraged mob is an outraged mob

No matter who is outraged here, it is simply OTT fake outrage.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think he is a bad man and I think the language used should be less hysterical. He is a person who is directly involved with horses though so I do think there should be some consequence for his action.

Agreed. It was distasteful and inappropriate and there should be consequences. But the consequences should be relative to the offence, like maybe a temporary ban from the racing Board. But I don't think it warrants the amount of outrage, or him and his employees and his business all going to the wall.

Violent assaults on living humans get a slap on the wrist or a suspended sentence every day of the week. That's not right either, but on balance I think Elliot's offence is minor.

joe40

walshb wrote: »

An outraged mob is an outraged mob

No matter who is outraged here, it is simply OTT fake outrage.

How do you know it is fake outrage.

I have zero interest in racing, but the industry seem to be taking this fairly seriously.

My personal opinion is it was a callous thing to do and I can understand the anger but losing his business and livelihood is too hefty a price to pay.

However if Horse owners no longer wish to use his services that is their choice.

Tig98

I think the racing industry turning on him is largely to appease the masses, and improve the odds of their own horses.

When you work with animals day in day out theres no mystique to them. The horse was dead, he's an overweight adult, what else would he do if he wants to take the weight off his feet, sit on the grass? There was no harming that horse anymore. If people are upset about a man sitting on a horse that can't feel it maybe they should refocus their energies on actual racing where they feel every kg of it and get whipped.

joe40

Tig98 wrote: »

I think the racing industry turning on him is largely to appease the masses, and improve the odds of their own horses.

When you work with animals day in day out theres no mystique to them. The horse was dead, he's an overweight adult, what else would he do if he wants to take the weight off his feet, sit on the grass? There was no harming that horse anymore. If people are upset about a man sitting on a horse that can't feel it maybe they should refocus their energies on actual racing where they feel every kg of it and get whipped.

I can agree with most of that, but horse racing doesn't depend on the masses. It is a niche industry that only makes money from people willing to attend race meetings or gamble.
Why would the horse racing industry care what I think about Gordon Elliot, i had never heard of him before this.

Former Former Former

Tig98 wrote: »

I think the racing industry turning on him is largely to appease the masses, and improve the odds of their own horses.

When you work with animals day in day out theres no mystique to them. The horse was dead, he's an overweight adult, what else would he do if he wants to take the weight off his feet, sit on the grass? There was no harming that horse anymore. If people are upset about a man sitting on a horse that can't feel it maybe they should refocus their energies on actual racing where they feel every kg of it and get whipped.

See, this is the problem that the racing industry created for itself.

To counter the negative side of what it takes to get a horse to the top of the sport, they insist that they love horses, the horse's welfare is paramount, nothing but the utmost respect for these majestic animals yadda yadda yadda. They want us to think that there IS a mystique to it.

Except, when a horse has literally just keeled over from an aneurysm and this guy thinks that its warm corpse will make a grand chair, it makes a mockery of that whole line.

Like, if this was a cattle farmer astride a dead cow, part of an industry that makes no apology for looking at animals as a commodity, I don't think anyone would give a f**k.

But the racing crowd need to be able to claim that they are horse lovers first, animal floggers and gambling facilitators second and this has really created an issue for that image. If we don't believe they love the horses, then maybe more focus falls on the whips, the doping, the massive tax breaks...

granturismo

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Guy does something silly and distasteful.
To a horse. That was dead.
Some time ago.

No one hurt, no one injured.

Guy now stands to lose everything.

Welcome to 21st century justice. Manufactured outrage. Appeasement of the mob.

The horse more than likely didnt belong to him. Someone is paying Gordon Elliott a substantial training fee, if that was me I wouldnt be impressed with Elliott. Horses die on race days and training thats a fact, I was told that approx 100 die every year at Irish races.

The photo says a lot about his attitude to his clients and as several posters have pointed out, some yard staff will probably lose their jobs as owners move their horses elsewhere.

davetherave

A caller on Liveline of all places had a very good point yesterday, what crime has he actually committed to face a trial by social media?

I was in the string him up camp but when you look at it: Yes, he was sitting on a dead horse, but was it as a result of negligent, malicious, or violent behaviour on his or his staffs part, or is it just a photo of someone absentmindly sitting on a horse gesturing for someone to "hold on a minute" while he is concentrating on a phonecall? Bad optics aside.

FileNotFound

davetherave wrote: »

A caller on Liveline of all places had a very good point yesterday, what crime has he actually committed to face a trial by social media?

I was in the string him up camp but when you look at it: Yes, he was sitting on a dead horse, but was it as a result of negligent, malicious, or violent behaviour on his or his staffs part, or is it just a photo of someone absentmindly sitting on a horse gesturing for someone to "hold on a minute" while he is concentrating on a phonecall? Bad optics aside.

He won't face a real trial by anyone but his own sport.

Public face gets backlash from the public. Simple reality.

He will be judged by his sport based on the damage his actions have done. Then we will all move on.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

If he was a fireman or a doctor or a politician, or some other line or work, then you have a point.

However, he was in charge of looking after horses wellbeing. Losing his job if he is an employee, or his business if he is an businessman (who should know better) is the price you will pay in such situations.

If he was a fireman who sat on the smouldering corpse of a victim, you might have a point.

Are you saying that horses' welfare under his charge is an issue? That's a very serious charge. Are you saying he mistreated this particular horse? Or others.

Surely equine welfare inspectors would have flagged concerns.
He was obviously good at what he did. Horses seemed to have done ok under him.
(Pardon the pun)

He's "guilty" of "disrespecting" a dead horse.
Thats it. Being thrown under the bus by the horsey crowd to appease the mob, and divert the spotlight. Everyone falling over themselves in their efforts to distance themselves from him.

He stands to lose everything for some ill-conceived humour.
His business - the employment of many, his reputation, his income. Everything.

For sitting on a dead horse.

Really? "The price you pay" is everything. Is this the pound of flesh we're extracting now?
For disrespecting dead animals.