Gordon Elliott photograph

Natterjack from Kerry

BattleCorp wrote: »

It was bad taste to sit on the dead horse and pose for a photo but it's not something worthy of the man losing his livelihood. I would consider it a very minor incident that has been blown out of all proportion.

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

He stands to lose everything for some ill-conceived humour.
His business - the employment of many, his reputation, his income. Everything.

For sitting on a dead horse.

davetherave wrote: »

A caller on Liveline of all places had a very good point yesterday, what crime has he actually committed to face a trial by social media?

....and various others missing the point for the popular outrage on this topic....

The point is not that it is a crime, nor that his sole mistake is sitting on horse as such, nor a momentary lapse of judgement. These do suggest a trivial nature that does not merit the brouhaha.

But what raises the ire is what this simple act exposes. It reveals a callousness and lack of true empathy or caring for an animal. The mask may only have slipped for a moment, but it reveals the charater behind it. People in the horse industry are, quite rightly, assumed to care about and for their animals. So it is not about this instance - rather than assume that he cares about and for the animals he works with, it is now assumed from this insight, that he does not. And that that represents his general approach, how he has been working, and how he would work in the future. And people find that unacceptable. And want sanction.

JJayoo

Imagine being jealous off the attention a dead horse is getting.

TheMilkyPirate

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

....and various others missing the point for the popular outrage on this topic....

The point is not that it is a crime, nor that his sole mistake is sitting on horse as such, nor a momentary lapse of judgement. These do suggest a trivial nature that does not merit the brouhaha.

But what raises the ire is what this simple act exposes. It reveals a callousness and lack of true empathy or caring for an animal. The mask may only have slipped for a moment, but it reveals the charater behind it. People in the horse industry are, quite rightly, assumed to care about and for their animals. So it is not about this instance - rather than assume that he cares about and for the animals he works with, it is now assumed from this insight, that he does not. And that that represents his general approach, how he has been working, and how he would work in the future. And people find that unacceptable. And want sanction.

Are you actually serious? If I tried I could find one hundred photos of Gordon with horses hugging them kissing them caring for them but because one photo come out of him sitting on a dead horse arranging for it to be taken off the gallops now all of a sudden he doesn't care a jot about them?

It's true what they say you could do a million nice things but people will only ever remember you for the one bad thing you do. I really hope Gordon is taking this well last thing we want is another Caroline flack.

anewme

JJayoo wrote: »

Imagine being jealous off the attention a dead horse is getting.

Elliott is not jealous.

Just caught out for his lack of integrity.

That's what usually happens in situations like these.

tipptom

partyguinness wrote: »

I have absolutely zero interest in horse riding/traing etc. In fact my eyes just glaze over when any mention of it comes on the radio or TV. I don't dislike it- just complete indifference. He may as well have been a Mongolian national champion mud wrestler.

partyguinness wrote: »

Well, how many horses are likely to die at the upcoming Chelteham Festival or will need to be put down due to injuries?

All for what? Sport? But that's ok....just reeks to the high heavens.

First post is complete indifferance,next post 5 minutes later and its like you have just become the CEO of PETA,something reeks alright.

Natterjack from Kerry

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Are you actually serious? If I tried I could find one hundred photos of Gordon with horses hugging them kissing them caring for them but because one photo come out of him sitting on a dead horse arranging for it to be taken off the gallops now all of a sudden he doesn't care a jot about them?

It's true what they say you could do a million nice things but people will only ever remember you for the one bad thing you do. I really hope Gordon is taking this well last thing we want is another Caroline flack.

The one event reveals the lack of sincerity in the million. Thats the point. And people feel cheated and betrayed by the facade that previously deceived.

BattleCorp

anewme wrote: »

The mods removed your post as breaching standards , so I'm not sure why you want to continue questioning the moderation.

I don't agree with your interpretation of my post being misogynistic nor do I agree with the actions of the mod in censoring it. I believe both actions were mistaken but hey, I'll take my yellow card on the chin and move on.

As of today, theres no further clarity where the info came from, but hey, just keep trying to stir.

I've no proof that it was the ex who leaked it but reports are that it was. Time may or may not tell if it was her or not. I may yet be proved right.

odyssey06

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Are you actually serious? If I tried I could find one hundred photos of Gordon with horses hugging them kissing them caring for them but because one photo come out of him sitting on a dead horse arranging for it to be taken off the gallops now all of a sudden he doesn't care a jot about them?
It's true what they say you could do a million nice things but people will only ever remember you for the one bad thing you do. I really hope Gordon is taking this well last thing we want is another Caroline flack.

You don't sit on a dead creature you cared a jot about.
The act of it would horrify you.
Can you imagine a pet owner sitting on their dead dog?
Try to think about that for a second.

To try to suggest it's some sort of numbers game is absolutely absurd.

The mask slipped. The true character was revealed and it was not a pretty sight.

TheMilkyPirate

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The one event reveals the lack of sincerity in the million. Thats the point. And people feel cheated and betrayed by the facade that previously deceived.

People feel cheated? Spare me.. There is no facade. Horse people love horses. I'm more concerned with how the horses are treated when they are actually alive tbh and I have no doubt they are treated well.

Natterjack from Kerry

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

People feel cheated? Spare me.. There is no facade. Horse people love horses. I'm more concerned with how the horses are treated when they are actually alive tbh and I have no doubt they are treated well.

Its not a question of sparing you. I am just explaining how this strike with the wider public and how it is making such waves.

anewme

BattleCorp wrote: »

I don't agree with your interpretation of my post being misogynistic nor do I agree with the actions of the mod in censoring it. I believe both actions were mistaken but hey, I'll take my yellow card on the chin and move on.



I've no proof that it was the ex who leaked it but reports are that it was. Time may or may not tell if it was her or not. I may yet be proved right.

You clearly dont agree as you made the comment in the first place, as well as the off topic judgemental comments on Hazel Chu and her speaking out about racism she has experienced, saying she is imagining stuff. You are not taking it on the chin as you are constantly trying to make digs about your deleted post, which is not in the spirit of boards.

Reports' that an ex leaked it. There are no reports whatsoever. Only social media low level twitter gossip which has no basis in fact.

JJayoo

anewme wrote: »

Elliott is not jealous.

Just caught out for his lack of integrity.

That's what usually happens in situations like these.

I wasn't on about Elliott......

anewme

odyssey06 wrote: »

The mask slipped. The true character was revealed and it was not a pretty sight.

Ted Walsh and Ger Walsh have spoken out about concerns over Elliotts mental health. I suppose it is how far a person can be pushed and is a valid point.

I believe your comment above surmises why there is an outcry. People can forgive mistakes, sometimes fairly easily. How many stars have come back from drugs, drink and erratic behaviour. Ant mc Partlin for example. But this is not a mistake, people realise this is the true character and no apology can take that back. To forgive, people need a reason, a justification, a repentance. But here there is none. That's why it's so unpalatable.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

You don't sit on a dead creature you cared a jot about.
The act of it would horrify you.
Can you imagine a pet owner sitting on their dead dog?
Try to think about that for a second.

To try to suggest it's some sort of numbers game is absolutely absurd.

The mask slipped. The true character was revealed and it was not a pretty sight.

Your first point I completely get. Not in a million years could I see myself sitting on any dead animal let alone one that is a loved pet.

His true character is something I don't think we can truly know based on one image but I do believe that certain actions or inaction can give us glimpses. My feeling is that he's a man who isn't cruel to his horses but at the end of the day they are "just" animals and when they are dead they are dead.

Abuse towards him and witch hunting needs to end though. He is still a person with feelings.

anewme

JJayoo wrote: »

I wasn't on about Elliott......

Well not sure who else you would be on about as this is the topic under discussion.

More social media gossip? His ex was jealous of the horse maybe?

wicklowstevo

odyssey06 wrote: »

You don't sit on a dead creature you cared a jot about.
The act of it would horrify you.
Can you imagine a pet owner sitting on their dead dog?
Try to think about that for a second.

To try to suggest it's some sort of numbers game is absolutely absurd.

The mask slipped. The true character was revealed and it was not a pretty sight.

Mask slipped ? sweet jebus


a race horse is not a pet . it is a working animal

there is a gulf of understanding between people who live and work with animals as a way of life and a living and people who have a pet at home on the sofa

anewme

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Mask slipped ? sweet jebus


a race horse is not a pet . it is a working animal

there is a gulf of understanding between people who live and work with animals as a way of life and a living and people who have a pet at home on the sofa

Theres not. That's why there is this backlash.

wicklowstevo

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Mask slipped ? sweet jebus


a race horse is not a pet . it is a working animal

there is a gulf of understanding between people who live and work with animals as a way of life and a living and people who have a pet at home on the sofa

If I had horses I would like the person/s who looked after them to be kind and respectful to them. It would hurt if I saw them sitting on their dead body and I would remove any other horses I had from their care. I do think though that Gordon saw them as you describe, purely a working animal.

odyssey06

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Mask slipped ? sweet jebus

a race horse is not a pet . it is a working animal

there is a gulf of understanding between people who live and work with animals as a way of life and a living and people who have a pet at home on the sofa

I thought he was supposed to "love horses"?
That's the point I responded to.

Yeah the mask slipped if it is claimed he loved horses and what we saw was not "love for horses" or some other absolute gibberish along those lines.
It wasn't respect, or compassion or sympathy or any kind of recognition of them as living creatures.

It was the actions of someone who saw horses as well nothing really, just a tool.
They may as well have been sitting on a wall or a vehicle.

If horse people "love horses" then Gordon Elliott ain't horse people.
Or maybe that's just absolute BS.

wicklowstevo

kippy wrote: »

Not a good analogy.

What happens the horses that aren't in that bracket?

actually it is , a Thoroughbred race horse is bread going back many many generations for one sole purpose and are not suited much else

they are reused
breeding stock,
end up with small trainers some times
some end up in Tesco burgers
sometimes they are mistreated too

the same is true of most domestic animal

wicklowstevo

anewme wrote: »

Theres not. That's why there is this backlash.

Social media backlash from people who aren't familiar or don't understand a topic or subject ,

that's hardly happened before now has it ?

wicklowstevo

Deleted User wrote: »

If I had horses I would like the person/s who looked after them to be kind and respectful to them. It would hurt if I saw them sitting on their dead body and I would remove any other horses I had from their care. I do think though that Gordon saw them as you describe, purely a working animal.

if you did you might understand more about the animals and the industry

see above post also

wicklowstevo

odyssey06 wrote: »

I thought he was supposed to "love horses"?
That's the point I responded to.

Yeah the mask slipped if it is claimed he loved horses and what we saw was not "love for horses" or some other absolute gibberish along those lines.
It wasn't respect, or compassion or sympathy or any kind of recognition of them as living creatures.

It was the actions of someone who saw horses as well nothing really, just a tool.
They may as well have been sitting on a wall or a vehicle.

If horse people "love horses" then Gordon Elliott ain't horse people.
Or maybe that's just absolute BS.

again see above

the phrase horse people is a defining factor here .

this isn't the pony club with a load of teenage girls plating there manes because they like the image

people who spend 24 7 with horses and other animals all seem to have similar views and statements on this


but then what would they know ...

celt262

Has anyone asked the other horses in the yard if they were ok with what GE did?

It's hardly the crime of the century now it was a dead horse.

buried

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Mask slipped ? sweet jebus


a race horse is not a pet . it is a working animal

there is a gulf of understanding between people who live and work with animals as a way of life and a living and people who have a pet at home on the sofa

The whole industry relies on ordinary people, a lot of them with pets at home, the same sort of ordinary people who place bets and watch the industries races. Races where at the end of them in the winners paddock, trainers like Elliot will talk and treat these animals, not only like they were a pet but as if the animal were as adored akin to a Golden God. That's what your public sees, that's what your industry conveys to the cameras, the wider public who fund your business. So don't be surprised or act bamboozled to discover the ordinary people ain't going to like it or start asking questions when seeing a trainer/owner/jockey sitting on top of a dead horse as they smile, laugh and give the two finger victory sign whilst on the phone.

BringBackMick

Give this chap a break I say.

It was a stupid situation and picture but by god there are more important things to deal with.

The animal was dead, ....do people know what happens next for the carcass? Yeah...you don't want to see it.

zerosugarbuzz

wicklowstevo wrote: »

actually it is , a Thoroughbred race horse is bread going back many many generations for one sole purpose and are not suited much else

they are reused
breeding stock,
end up with small trainers some times
some end up in Tesco burgers
sometimes they are mistreated too

the same is true of most domestic animal

Not true. I had an ex point to point horse that I used for minor show jumping and dressage for many years. Many others have done this too there is an organisation called Race Horse to Riding horse that promotes this.
I would never dispute that the winning race horses are treated like royalty. However, they are in the minority. Brood mares are pregnant year in year out producing foals that are raced as yearlings or two year olds, you'd be familiar with the races. Their backs aren't fully grown and get irrevocably damaged by being ridden too young. The ones that fail, which is the vast majority are shipped to the knackers yard, terrified, and killed there. The race yards for the most part wouldn't spend the money on the bullet. They certainly are not going to spend money on feed and shelter for horses that wont be winning or breeding. That is a small bit of the unpalatable story regarding horses. Trainers say they love horses, they actually love the buzz of the race and the money that goes with it.

anewme

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Social media backlash from people who aren't familiar or don't understand a topic or subject ,

that's hardly happened before now has it ?

Sorry, it's not social media backlash.

Its backlash in the mainstream media-especially from those in the industry.

People understand kindness, respect, integrity. They are values not unique to any industry, class or profession. Dont try to belittle people by saying they dont understand these core values; they do, that's what is at the crux of this.

wicklowstevo

wicklowstevo wrote: »

if you did you might understand more about the animals and the industry

see above post also

I know I would love them and I would want those caring for them to treat them with dignity and kindness.