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Gordon Elliott photograph

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    #512
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,640 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    He'll be back ok. When all the lamenting and posturing has faded away, he's still a guy who can train horses to win Group 1 races including the biggest races of all, and that's what really matters.


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    #513
    Theworldisy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 50 ✭✭Theworldisy


    His punishment will be out of proportion imo. However with the money involved in racing and racing needing to be seen to be all about animal care its going to be that way. Hugh money involved here and the uk. I hope he can come back from this. The irish racing board should have acted quicker also GL hasn't helped himself either. Surely the racing board here could have acted quickly and gave him a ban and taken him out of the limelight a bit. Six months and maybe he can come back. Horses will leave but he i think with a six month ban and some good pr work he'll be back. That is unless its not an isolated incident. Whoever leaked the photo has an agenda and is there more to come.


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    #514
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    begbysback wrote: »
    It’s a couple of cracks down the backside, wasn’t so long ago it was good enough for kids in school.

    There's an argument to bring it back!


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    #515
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Theworldisy wrote: »
    His punishment will be out of proportion imo. However with the money involved in racing and racing needing to be seen to be all about animal care its going to be that way. Hugh money involved here and the uk. I hope he can come back from this. The irish racing board should have acted quicker also GL hasn't helped himself either. Surely the racing board here could have acted quickly and gave him a ban and taken him out of the limelight a bit. Six months and maybe he can come back. Horses will leave but he i think with a six month ban and some good pr work he'll be back. That is unless its not an isolated incident. Whoever leaked the photo has an agenda and is there more to come.
    Whether he comes back from it or not is almost irrelevant, another trainer/yard will pick up the slack and hopefully Elliots workers find employment elsewhere.
    There's agendas all over the place tbh, from the inital release of the photo, the the various reactions to it.
    If there are more pictures/videos to come out the nail will just be hammered deeper.


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    #516
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    The error was not sitting on the horse but rather allowing himself to be photographed.


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    #517
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    dickdasr1234 wrote: »
    Forgotten in a decade? Try a fortnight!
    Hah, we'll see what the IRHB has to say. This will be in the minds of the racing public when Elliot isn't at Cheltenham in a fortnight


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    #518
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    partyguinness wrote: »
    The error was not sitting on the horse but rather allowing himself to be photographed.

    That is what the people defending him are missing.

    The error was sitting on the horse in the first place. But that's down to bad character.

    Integrity is about doing the right thing when no one is looking. You have it, or dont. He clearly does not.


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    #519
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 12,309 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    biko wrote: »
    PETA have a statement to the opposite
    https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/petas-statement-bestiality/

    Your facts and actual references won't go over well with the pitchfork crowd. Good luck.

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



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    #520
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    anewme wrote: »
    That is what the people defending him are missing.

    The errror was sittting on the horse in the first place. But that's down to bad character.

    Integrity is about doing the right thing when no one is looking. You have it, or dont. He clearly does not.

    He does not have integrity because he sat on a dead horse. I mean if that's the bar I don't know a single person with integrity.

    Is sitting on a dead horse worse than:

    Cheating on a lover
    Dangerous driving
    Gossiping about others
    Lying


    In my opinion all of these things are worse than sitting on a dead horse.


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    #521
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    joseywhales wrote: »
    He does not have integrity because he sat on a dead horse. I mean if that's the bar I don't know a single person with integrity.

    Is sitting on a dead horse worse than:

    Cheating on a lover
    Dangerous driving
    Gossiping about others
    Lying


    In my opinion all of these things are worse than sitting on a dead horse.


    It is not Sesame Street.

    One of these things is not like the other...

    The person who said he should not have got caught is exactly summing up why he has no integrity.


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    #522
    Snugglebunnies
    Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Snugglebunnies


    I'd say a lot of the outrage coming from the racing crowd is because they don't want the spotlight shone on actual unsavory goings on in their industry.

    They're trying to avoid a "Running for their lives" style look at the behind the scenes of racing. Greyhound racing suffered a lot after that expose, and rightly so.


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    #523
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Snugglebunnies wrote: »
    I'd say a lot of the outrage coming from the racing crowd is because they don't want the spotlight shone on actual unsavory goings on in their industry.

    They're trying to avoid a "Running for their lives" style look at the behind the scenes of racing. Greyhound racing suffered a lot after that expose, and rightly so.

    What unsavory things are going on?


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    #524
    Snugglebunnies
    Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Snugglebunnies


    Allinall wrote: »
    What unsavory things are going on?

    Young healthy horses being sent to off to the abbatoir because they don't make the grade or won't ever be at their best again after treatable injuries. That for one.


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    #525
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,291 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    begbysback wrote: »
    It’s a couple of cracks down the backside, wasn’t so long ago it was good enough for kids in school.

    It was never "good enough."

    It was always sadistic, no matter what era.

    Violence against children by adults in power......

    Same with inflicting violence and pain o animals.


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    #526
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    partyguinness wrote: »
    The error was not sitting on the horse but rather allowing himself to be photographed.

    i have to disagree, sitting on a dead horse is just wrong, it may be an animal but it deserves respect, dead or alive.
    Would you sit on your dead dog if he died ? Come on there is no excuse the chap clearly is not very intelligent and has been shown up as such.


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    #527
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    There’s hardly even a story in it, now if the horse decided to sit on a dead Gordon Elliott whilst taking a phone call, that would be worth printing.


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    #528
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    anewme wrote: »
    That is what the people defending him are missing.

    The error was sitting on the horse in the first place. But that's down to bad character.

    Integrity is about doing the right thing when no one is looking. You have it, or dont. He clearly does not.

    Just following on my point. IMO there is no way that was the first time he did it...just look at this mug..it was no big deal. Also guaranteed he is not the only trainer etc who has done the same thing.

    IMO he is not sorry for sitting on the horse as such but rather he got caught. My comment was purposely cynical- it is not a defence of any sort.

    Is it any better or worse integrity than breeding and riding a horse at speed to near exhaustion specifically for human sport/fun? Forced out to stud? Then to the knackers yard and a slaughter house for dog food? That's if they even make it that far...break a leg or a bone jumping over a fence and the horse is put down quite often by the side of the track.

    What does the horse get out for it?

    Just so we are clear I am not defending him at all...there is nothing to defend. I never heard of him up to a few days ago and have no opinion on the guy. But there is an awful lot of pearl clutching going on which I find a little weird. But I am a deeply cynical person.


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    #529
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    anewme wrote: »
    It is not Sesame Street.

    One of these things is not like the other...

    The person who said he should not have got caught is exactly summing up why he has no integrity.

    I don't understand this, surely the person who says that he should not have been caught has no integrity because he believes that hiding things is the appropriate way to maintain your status.

    Gordon Elliot didn't say he should not have got caught, some person defending him did, so why does Gordon Elliot have no integrity?


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    #530
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Definitely not the first time it was done by him or someone else. Anyone else who did this is probably currently bricking it in case it gets out.


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    #531
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    i have to disagree, sitting on a dead horse is just wrong, it may be an animal but it deserves respect, dead or alive.
    Would you sit on your dead dog if he died ? Come on there is no excuse the chap clearly is not very intelligent and has been shown up as such.

    No I agree sitting on a dead horse is wrong. Perhaps my deep cynicism was not clear.

    I grew up in the countryside and while I am not from a farming background it was a farming community and with a sprinkling of horses. "We" definitely have a more 'pragmatic' attitude toward animals than the city folk. If you spend your life rearing animals for profit then you view animals as a commodity- that is what they are and that is how they end up in supermarket shelves.

    Horses are also commodities- horse breading and racing is all about profit and making money. Big money. So to that end I am struggling to see the outrage between this and slaughtering animals and eating them.

    I know fishermen and they purposely go on seal killing expeditions off the west coast...why? because seals compete for fish with fishermen. That is straight from the fishermans mouth...bet that will shock some people. In fact I bet some posters will accuse me of making up such a horror story.

    Yes he was absolutely wrong but I don't think anyone is in a position to throw stones- when we are sitting down to a meat dinner..are we really any better? Was the picture a bit too real for some people's tastes?


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    #532
    Silly Gilly
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Silly Gilly


    It's amazing the commonality between the posts of those defending Elliott both here and in the Horse Racing forum. Barely literate, ill thought out analogies with terrible logic involved. Although I'm not sure what I was expecting from regular "punters". Most of them would not exactly be troubling Mensa for admittance.


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    #533
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    partyguinness wrote: »
    No I agree sitting on a dead horse is wrong. Perhaps my deep cynicism was not clear.

    I grew up in the countryside and while I am not from a farming background it was a farming community and with a sprinkling of horses. "We" definitely have a more 'pragmatic' attitude toward animals than the city folk. If you spend your life rearing animals for profit then you view animals as a commodity- that is what they are and that is how they end up in supermarket shelves.

    Horses are also commodities- horse breading and racing is all about profit and making money. Big money. So to that end I am struggling to see the outrage between this and slaughtering animals and eating them.

    I know fishermen and they purposely go on seal killing expeditions off the west coast...why? becasue seals compete for fish with fishermen. That is straight from the fishermans mouth...bet that will shock some people. In fact I bet some posters will accuse me of making up such a horror story.

    Yes he was absolutely wrong but I don't think anyone is in a position to throw stones- when we are sitting down to a meat dinner..are we really any better? Was the picture a bit too real for some people's tastes?

    Yes i get your point for sure knowing some farmers ect,even trout fishermen killing all the pike is another example, but this guy is the poster boy of racing in ireland not some local joe down the end of the road, he's a "professional"
    there has to be punishment and a decent one at that, i saw a 6 month ban mentioned earlier and i'd agree with that and i'd be fairly certain it wouldn't happen again


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    #534
    Silly Gilly
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Silly Gilly


    Anyway poor Gordy got too big for his boots and forgot that without horses like Morgan he would likely be working as a panel beater in some garage as his father and lots of his family did.

    Horses have afforded him the opportunity for fame, success and riches beyond his wildest imagination. He should be down on bended knees thanking them not using them as props for juvenile jokes.

    His industry will likely crucify him tomorrow and he has no-one to blame but himself. Thems the breaks, Gordo!


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    #535
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    Yes i get your point for sure knowing some farmers ect,even trout fishermen killing all the pike is another example, but this guy is the poster boy of racing in ireland not some local joe down the end of the road, he's a "professional"
    there has to be punishment and a decent one at that, i saw a 6 month ban mentioned earlier and i'd agree with that and i'd be fairly certain it wouldn't happen again


    I 100% agree. He was a complete wanker to act like that and he deserves everything he gets. Unbecoming. As you said it was not the 16 apprentice stable boy. Bet there is quite a few others nervously thinking about similar pics they may have posed for.

    Not sure if this is out there but who owned the horse? Was it his or somebody else?


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    #536
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Silly Gilly wrote: »

    Horses have afforded him the opportunity for fame, success and riches beyond his wildest imagination. He should be down on bended knees thanking them not using them as props for juvenile jokes.


    So...what do the horses have to say about this?


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    #537
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    partyguinness wrote: »
    I 100% agree. He was a complete wanker to act like that and he deserves everything he gets. Unbecoming. As you said it was not the 16 apprentice stable boy. Bet there is quite a few others nervously thinking about similar pics they may have posed for.

    Not sure if this is out there but who owned the horse? Was it his or somebody else?

    think it was MichaelOLeary who has stood by him for now anyway


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    #538
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭piplip87


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    think it was MichaelOLeary who has stood by him for now anyway

    O'Leary will stand by him. Saying that O'Leary is getting out of the game and with I'd say he will take a fairly big paycut from the day job this year. The likes of Samcro, Farclas, Abracadabras could get him good money if Elliott did get a long ban.


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    #539
    dickdasr1234
    Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭dickdasr1234


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    Yes i get your point for sure knowing some farmers ect,even trout fishermen killing all the pike is another example, but this guy is the poster boy of racing in ireland not some local joe down the end of the road, he's a "professional"
    there has to be punishment and a decent one at that, i saw a 6 month ban mentioned earlier and i'd agree with that and i'd be fairly certain it wouldn't happen again
    But why would you worry about it happening again? There has been no animal killed or injured in the process.

    Or do you mean that no one will allow a picture to be taken? For sure, that would make it a better world!


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    #540
    ThewhiteJesus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    dickdasr1234 wrote: »
    But why would you worry about it happening again? There has been no animal killed or injured in the process.

    Or do you mean that no one will allow a picture to be taken? For sure, that would make it a better world!

    i think the act of sitting on a dead animal is totally wrong, total lack of class, total lack of respect why can't people understand that ?
    Would you pull out your dead pet and sit on him ?
    Also, this guy is only a trainer it's not even his so this opens up even more debate, he's supposed to be a professional.


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    #541
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,291 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dickdasr1234 wrote: »
    But why would you worry about it happening again? There has been no animal killed or injured in the process.

    Or do you mean that no one will allow a picture to be taken? For sure, that would make it a better world!

    You could hardly call it normal run of the mill behavior from Elliot, now

    Unless we just want to erode the remaining standards we have in society?


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