Gordon Elliott photograph

Shelby Foote

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

They're still calves though.

This is going to go around in circles. There's no technical end date. I would imagine you're not from a farming background.

When does a heifir become a cow, if you can answer without googling I might respect your opinion

LawBoy2018

Shelby Foote wrote: »

This is going to go around in circles. There's no technical end date. I would imagine you're not from a farming background.

When does a heifir become a cow, if you can answer without googling I might respect your opinion

Who would consider a puppy a dog after 6 months? Or a kitten a cat? I don't see why there'd be a special distinction for cattle, despite what 'people from a farming background' think.

Gaoth Laidir

Some of the posts on this thread are laughable. "Make him donate to animal cruelty"..."the beginning of the end"... Jesus, people really need to learn what perspective is.

He hasn't been cruel to any animal. The animal was dead. Just stop and think...no, really think...about the photo for a second. How was he cruel to the horse? And none of this respect crap. Is that the same respect that gets paid to people after they die, when there wasn't a good word to say about them when they were alive? Respect was shown to the animal when it was alive, when it was pampered like an A-list celebrity and given the very best of veterinary care. Like it or not, these animals are not buried in some plush equine cemetery with flowers 'n all. They're either sent to slaughter or incinerated. Thousands are slaughtered every year just because they're finished their racing careers. Anyone here up in arms about that? Nope.

Shelby Foote

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Who would consider a puppy a dog after 6 months? Or a kitten a cat? I don't see why there'd be a special distinction for cattle, despite what 'people from a farming background' think.

Apples and oranges.

A lot of your so called calves are as big as their mothers at 8 months. The term calf is generally used to describe much younger animals. That's how things are described among farmers in Ireland. I'm merely pointing that out, you can take the hump all you like but knowledge of the naming of cattle, male and female, at various stages of their lives is not something you've any knowledge of.

joseywhales

Shelby Foote wrote: »

Apples and oranges.

A lot of your so called calves are as big as their mothers at 8 months. The term calf is generally used to describe much younger animals. That's how things are described among farmers in Ireland. I'm merely pointing that out, you can take the hump all you like but knowledge of the naming of cattle, male and female, at various stages of their lives is not something you've any knowledge of.

They are basically obese teenagers, delicious teenage cattle.

LawBoy2018

Shelby Foote wrote: »

Apples and oranges.

A lot of your so called calves are as big as their mothers at 8 months. The term calf is generally used to describe much younger animals. That's how things are described among farmers in Ireland. I'm merely pointing that out, you can take the hump all you like but knowledge of the naming of cattle, male and female, at various stages of their lives is not something you've any knowledge of.

Sham you're talking ****. Dairy bull calves in Ireland are either exported or slaughtered as calves.

LawBoy2018

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Some of the posts on this thread are laughable. "Make him donate to animal cruelty"..."the beginning of the end"... Jesus, people really need to learn what perspective is.

He hasn't been cruel to any animal. The animal was dead. Just stop and think...no, really think...about the photo for a second. How was he cruel to the horse? And none of this respect crap. Is that the same respect that gets paid to people after they die, when there wasn't a good word to say about them when they were alive? Respect was shown to the animal when it was alive, when it was pampered like an A-list celebrity and given the very best of veterinary care. Like it or not, these animals are not buried in some plush equine cemetery with flowers 'n all. They're either sent to slaughter or incinerated. Thousands are slaughtered every year just because they're finished their racing careers. Anyone here up in arms about that? Nope.

'Beginning of the end' of public funding.

Shelby Foote

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Sham you're talking ****. Dairy bull calves in Ireland are either exported or slaughtered as calves.

Sham?

They're weaned and older than what us farmers call a calf.

I presume you're into law, I wouldn't challenge you on your area of expertise. I'm over 40 years in this business and know what's called what around the country, with regards to cattle. Regardless of officialdom and what they say.

LawBoy2018

Shelby Foote wrote: »

Sham?

They're weaned and older than what us farmers call a calf.

I presume you're into law, I wouldn't challenge you on your area of expertise. I'm over 40 years in this business and know what's called what around the country, with regards to cattle. Regardless of officialdom and what they say.

But you're missing the point. How farmers define a calf is irrelevant. Unless farmers somehow change the meaning of calf in respect of the english language, they would still be deemed calves by everyone else's standards.

If a group of famers decided to rebrand potatoes as turnips, would their stance automatically be correct by virtue of their 'expertise'?

Shelby Foote

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

But you're missing the point. How farmers define a calf is irrelevant. Unless farmers somehow change the meaning of calf in respect of the english language, they would still be deemed calves by everyone else's standards.

If a group of famers decided to rebrand potatoes as turnips, would their stance automatically be correct by virtue of their 'expertise'?

The point is there's a massive difference between a smaller weaker 1-3 month calf. And the 8/9 mth version that is covered by the official label.

I can see your keen legal mind for arguing the point. That definition of 'calf' is too broad. We have many cases of descriptions termed 'what's known in the industry'.

And for Christ sake don't call me 'Sham'!! I've never been called that before.

I actually have to go calves a cow now. Where hopefully mam and calf will be well. She's 30 days over her gestation period, a massive amount, so there's a fair chance it'll be a 3 hr cesarean. But better now than 3 in the morning. I love my animals and would never see any wrong done to them. I don't send on live trade. I made a pet out of one calf I kept until he was 7, not economically viable but he was the most docile, gentle bovine I ever had.

JustJoe7240

Shelby Foote wrote: »

The point is there's a massive difference between a smaller weaker 1-3 month calf. And the 8/9 mth version that is covered by the official label.

I can see your keen legal mind for arguing the point. That definition of 'calf' is too broad. We have many cases of descriptions termed 'what's known in the industry'.

And for Christ sake don't call me 'Sham'!! I've never been called that before.

I actually have to go calves a cow now. Where hopefully mam and calf will be well. She's 30 days over her gestation period, a massive amount, so there's a fair chance it'll be a 3 hr cesarean. But better now than 3 in the morning. I love my animals and would never see any wrong done to them. I don't send on live trade. I made a pet out of one calf I kept until he was 7, not economically viable but he was the most docile, gentle bovine I ever had.

Calves are exported live. Sent 14 day old fresian bulls for the boat on Friday. And your dates are more than likely wrong if your cow is carrying 317 days.

Beasty

I've no idea how this thread turned to discussing calves, but back on topic everyone

Montage of Feck

Did anyone ask why the horse died, has it animal cruelty or incompetence? Very unlikely as the man is at the top of his game, but anyway who cares when there's a macguffin to loss the rag about.

I'll agree the photo was in bad taste, but taste is objective. We are sleep waking into a social credit system.

gozunda

touts wrote: »

The callous disrespect for the animal after it had apparently been ridden to a heart attack is a window into the wider approach to horses in the industry. The top 5-10 stud horses like Galileo are treated like royality. Luxurious stables. Dedicated paddocks. The best vets and grooms and jockeys. All for the €200k a pop stud fees.

For the rest of the poor horses many are ridden to a heart attack just like this poor animal.

On that. Do you have the vets report on the dead horse?

Horses just like people may have heart conditions. Though not "many" by any stretch of the imagination. Where the horse died - was an area used to exercise horses to ensure they are kept fit and thus reduce the chance of risk of injury from same.

That said horses by their physiology are natural athletes who have an inate ability to run and will even gallop like loons around fields all by themselves - no rider involved. Do horses sometimes drop dead both ridden and otherwise? Yes they do. So no a horse does not have to "ridden to a heart attack" at all. Did it happen in this case? Afaik all we know is horse died of an apparent heart attack according to news stories. Not that it was killed by excessive galloping or any evident ill treatment.

https://youtu.be/6qKxG4a0e4U

Gordon has accepted his punishment. He didn’t appeal it. He didn’t make excuses. His life will never be the same again.

Shelby Foote

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gordon has accepted his punishment. He didn’t appeal it. He didn’t make excuses. His life will never be the same again.

Do you know him personally Maryanne?

The social media trial some get today is frightening.

Shelby Foote

Shelby Foote wrote: »

Do you know him personally Maryanne?

The social media trial some get today is frightening.

I don’t know him personally, but am a racing fan. I can’t help wondering about the mentality of the person who took the photo, held on to it and then released it when it was guaranteed to cause the most harm, in the leadup to Cheltenham.

Ellie2008

Shelby Foote wrote: »

Do you know him personally Maryanne?

The social media trial some get today is frightening.

Some? Trial by social media is the way things seem to be done nowdays. Whatever happened to let he without sin. If we all had the worst things we’ve ever done published I don’t think many would come out unscathed.

tipptom

touts wrote: »

The callous disrespect for the animal after it had apparently been ridden to a heart attack is a window into the wider approach to horses in the industry. The top 5-10 stud horses like Galileo are treated like royality. Luxurious stables. Dedicated paddocks. The best vets and grooms and jockeys. All for the €200k a pop stud fees.

For the rest of the poor horses many are ridden to a heart attack just like this poor animal.

Every sentance you have written is pure uninformed rubbish,even down to Galileos nomination fee

The only thing you were right on is Galileo having the best jockey at stud,Ryan Moore comes over to ride him every weekend.

Some window you have into the industry lolz,

batman75

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t know him personally, but am a racing fan. I can’t help wondering about the mentality of the person who took the photo, held on to it and then released it when it was guaranteed to cause the most harm, in the leadup to Cheltenham.

Could it not say something about the wrong/hurt he may have caused someone, to cause that someone to act as they did? He might be a brilliant trainer but sitting on a deceased horse is not something most people would find acceptable.

Beatty69

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Horse owner here. I've had to have two (leisure) horses destroyed (1st shattered leg in the stable, aged 22, 2nd chronically lame and in pain) Yes, I may be a sap, but if the man who runs the yard where my current horse lives appeared in a photo like this, with either corpse,I would remove any animals from his care.

When the 1st horse had to be destroyed, the vet actually thought the yard owner was the owner of my horse, such was his distress. Second horse, yard owner insisted I leave and he sat stroking the horse as the vet injected him.

Can I ask a question that may be a stupid one but I've never owned a horse and don't know that much about them but do they have to be put down when their legs are broken? They can't just wear a plaster, recover and be put out to pasture?

Sorry if it's an ignorant question but it's always struck me as strange as a lot of smaller animals survive with only 3 legs.

BattleCorp

Beatty69 wrote: »

Can I ask a question that may be a stupid one but I've never owned a horse and don't know that much about them but do they have to be put down when their legs are broken? They can't just wear a plaster, recover and be put out to pasture?

Sorry if it's an ignorant question but it's always struck me as strange as a lot of smaller animals survive with only 3 legs.

It's very difficult to fix a broken leg on a horse. Often euthanasia is the only option.

A horse has a large body and relatively fragile legs. They can't manage on three legs.