Gordon Elliott photograph

J.O. Farmer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you'd be fine with someone posing for a photo op/laugh over a family member's dead body, then?

Can't love or respect a dead thing, right?

It was a bizzare thing to do but you do realise this was a horse and not a person or even the family pet.

Dead horses are sent are sent to the knackery while dead people receive a burial or cremation. Having been to both I can assure you there's no dignity in death in the knackery and when I go I'd much prefer a proper funeral and burial.

Racehorses are only 1 step removed from cattle and sheep in that in this country they are not seen as a food source but in other countries horse meat is often eaten.

There's a few places in the world where they eat dog and perhaps only a few cannibalistic tribes which eat human flesh to compare a dead horse with a family member is OTT.

Notmything

Allinall wrote: »

The horse was dead.

How can you show empathy to a dead horse?

Do the knackers arrive in a floral laden truck and say a decade of the rosary before taking it away? :rolleyes:

It was a horse, a horse that someone was paying him money to train and look after. I would imagine he charges a decent amount given his success. And when that client's horse dies this is his response. Says a lot.

RoryMac

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

It was a bizzare thing to do but you do realise this was a horse and not a person or even the family pet.

Dead horses are sent are sent to the knackery while dead people receive a burial or cremation. Having been to both I can assure you there's no dignity in death in the knackery and when I go I'd much prefer a proper funeral and burial.

Racehorses are only 1 step removed from cattle and sheep in that in this country they are not seen as a food source but in other countries horse meat is often eaten.

There's a few places in the world where they eat dog and perhaps only a few cannibalistic tribes which eat human flesh to compare a dead horse with a family member is OTT.

And if a picture came out from the local meat plant of Peter or Pavel sitting on a dead cow, smiling to his friends and he was easily recognisable he'd be sacked by now.

But there seems to be quite a few people trying to play down the actions of this idiot

J.O. Farmer

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

Would you pose over a photo of your dog if it died, sitting and laughing on it?

The owners of his horses pay thousands of euro a year too - if that was a small trainer or any other trainer I'd imagine they would be heartbroken - if anything else they've lost a client and money!

The owners don't pay all that money because they love the animal so much. They do it because they love horse racing.

If it's a successful racer they may love it for the success but if it's an old nag they probably wouldn't keep it to die of old age in some kind of horse sanctuary. There may be exceptions but for most it's business or a hobby.

If the horse is in Gordon Elliott's yard the owners are unlikely to be down mucking out the horse every evening so not exactly a beloved pet.

randd1

realdanbreen wrote: »

Wow, glad to see you don't believe in spreading wild gossip!

Well, almost always when a healthy racehorse has a heart attack, it's usually because the poor thing has been flogged and run to the point it's heart gives way.


It's not really wild gossip when it's the usual cause.

Shelby Foote

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm sure Elliot will be gutted to hear that you would be really worried. :rolleyes:

A fella with a username Real Dan Breen all into the horse industry.. The irony. You couldn't make it up.

Dan Breen was a labourer and hated elites. He'd no more be talking about his knowledge of the most elite sport out there. You're no Dan Breen.

enricoh

What a dope to do it n have a photo taken. I see michael o leary is sticking with him, he's never a man to waste a good crisis - I hope he bleeds him dry!

J.O. Farmer

RoryMac wrote: »

And if a picture came out from the local meat plant of Peter or Pavel sitting on a dead cow, smiling to his friends and he was easily recognisable he'd be sacked by now.

But there seems to be quite a few people trying to play down the actions of this idiot

Of course they'd be sacked, nobody wants that image associated with their business especially not in food production.

Do you think Larry Goodman cries himself to sleep in memory of all the cattle killed on any given day.

A more accurate analogy would be down the local knackery yard, you do realise the difference, meat plant live animals slaughtered and knackery dead animals brought for disposal.
Would they be sacked then, maybe or maybe not but image isn't as important there.

walshb

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

Are you vegetarian/vegan? If so I accept your opinion - if not then it's just not valid. All animals are beautiful and carefree that does not stop people from eating them after a few months of their lives.

Millions of people, probably billions are vegetarian without issue, so health reasons are just not good enough excuse to eat meat too (so much studies have shown how bad dairy and meat actually are for people too).

Not following your reply logic at all..

I am talking about the cruel and unnecessary pain humans deliver to these beautiful animals. whilst these animals are running their hearts out for human sport and pleasure..

Me being a vegetarian or not? No idea why this matters to my clear point.

buried

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Of course they'd be sacked, nobody wants that image associated with their business especially not in food production.

Do you think Larry Goodman cries himself to sleep in memory of all the cattle killed on any given day.

A more accurate analogy would be down the local knackery yard, you do realise the difference, meat plant live animals slaughtered and knackery dead animals brought for disposal.
Would they be sacked then, maybe or maybe not but image isn't as important there.

Horses are a totally different animal compared to cows in this scenario, you don't see the likes of Larry Goodman on TV go running over to a cow, petting the thing on the neck and telling the TV reporter how great the cow was for winning a race and being the first cow to win the race to be the first cow to get into the slaughterhouse to get Larry all that cash money.

Bodjhrjekekr

walshb wrote: »

Not following your reply logic at all..

I am talking about the cruel and unnecessary pain humans deliver to these beautiful animals. whilst these animals are running their hearts out for human sport and pleasure..

Me being a vegetarian or not? No idea why this matters to my clear point.

I am just trying to make the point that this industry is singled out completely, and if the discussion of the industry being banned is brought up then it HAS to lead to the discussion of other industries where cruel and unnecessary pain humans deliver to beautiful animals is done - IE all types of farming.

I agree this is off topic of the thread, but not any more off topic than your point, my point is also clear too.

walshb

Bodjhrjekekr wrote: »

I am just trying to make the point that this industry is singled out completely, and if the discussion of the industry being banned is brought up then it HAS to lead to the discussion of other industries where cruel and unnecessary pain humans deliver to beautiful animals is done - IE all types of farming.

I agree this is off topic of the thread, but not any more off topic than your point, my point is also clear too.

I don’t want horse racing banned

I would like to see a ban on the use of the whip. Absolutely.

Billgirlylegs

Girly Gal wrote: »

The way he's sitting on the horse, isn't exactly how you'd absent mindedly sit on anything let alone a dead horse. It really shows a lack of respect and empathy to the horse, I'm sure the owner is very impressed!
A lot of owners wouldn't be happy to see the likes of this carryon and I wouldn't be surprised if some owners withdraw their horses from his stables. He depends on horses for his livelihood, the least he should do is show them a little respect.

While people are getting a bit over the top about cruelty to or lack of respect to, a dead horse, it was a ridiculously stupid, callous thing for him to do.
I think he will be disciplined in some way, but I think he will also lose a bit of business over this.
He will pay a price for it. Just hard to know how big.

We don't know how or why the horse died - it looks like it is in a paddock, so speculation about him working it to death appears unfounded.

J.O. Farmer

buried wrote: »

Horses are a totally different animal compared to cows in this scenario, you don't see the likes of Larry Goodman on TV go running over to a cow, petting the thing on the neck and telling the TV reporter how great the cow was for winning a race and being the first cow to win the race to be the first cow to get into the slaughterhouse to get Larry all that cash money.

You don't see Gordon Elliot petting the horse that came last either telling the reporter they ran a great race. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the cash (prize money) and maybe the thrill of winning.
Maybe I'm being cynical but the love professed by trainers and owners isn't the same as some here would like to believe hence the outrage.

That cow you mentioned could have been the best cow on the farm for over a decade, most milk or always produced the best calf but in the end she's worth more in Larrys meat plant than dead in field. Larry gives you money, the knackery look for it to dispose of animal. It's a business decision in the end.

An Ri rua

Girly Gal wrote: »

The way he's sitting on the horse, isn't exactly how you'd absent mindedly sit on anything let alone a dead horse. It really shows a lack of respect and empathy to the horse, I'm sure the owner is very impressed!
A lot of owners wouldn't be happy to see the likes of this carryon and I wouldn't be surprised if some owners withdraw their horses from his stables. He depends on horses for his livelihood, the least he should do is show them a little respect.

The way he's sitting is a classic hunting pose. He's an utter clown, at best.

buried

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

You don't see Gordon Elliot petting the horse that came last either telling the reporter they ran a great race. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is the cash (prize money) and maybe the thrill of winning.
Maybe I'm being cynical but the love professed by trainers and owners isn't the same as some here would like to believe hence the outrage.

That cow you mentioned could have been the best cow on the farm for over a decade, most milk or always produced the best calf but in the end she's worth more in Larrys meat plant than dead in field. Larry gives you money, the knackery look for it to dispose of animal. It's a business decision in the end.

My point is that horse trainers, the jockeys and the whole industry tries to push a cutesy, ridiculous, personality driven narrative on everybody that theses horses themselves are their own comrades in arms, especially in interviews when these people win some money. Every race they win you hear them all say 'she's a great filly', 'she loves this track', 'he did what I wanted him to do', 'he loves this ground' 'shes been like this all week in the stables'. If you are constantly coming out with f**king $hite like that, whilst petting them on the neck to go with it, then the last thing you'd want to be doing when one of them end up dead on the ground is sit your fat thick f**king arse on the thing, whilst on your phone having a laugh about it giving the victory sign and get photographed doing it to go along with it.

Gregor Samsa

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

It's a business decision in the end.

You’re right, horse racing, farming, meat processing are all businesses. Such animals are treated different to pets, and that is a fact of life.

But I think any way you look at it, posing for a photograph on a dead horse you’re supposed to be looking after, while making a peace sign is a very poor business decision.

As is making up a frankly bizarre reason for it in what is supposed to be a “sincere apology”.

Doctors room ghost

“Horse racing Ireland begin disciplinary action against Gordon Elliott” according to the wireless

J.O. Farmer

buried wrote: »

My point is that horse trainers, the jockeys and the whole industry tries to push a cutesy, ridiculous, personality driven narrative on the everybody that theses horses themselves are their own comrades in arms, especially in interviews when these people win some money. Every race they win you hear them all say 'she's a great filly', 'she loves this track', 'he did what I wanted him to do', 'he loves this ground' 'shes been like this all week in the stables'. If you are constantly coming out with f**king $hite like that, whilst petting them on the neck to go with it, then the last thing you'd want to be doing when one of them end up dead on the ground is sit your fat thick f**king arse on the thing, whilst on your phone having a laugh about it giving the victory sign and get photographed doing it to go along with it.

I'm sure they care to a point but as I said they're the ones that win. Nobody asks or cares what they think of the one that came last.

It was bizzare and stupid, no idea what he was thinking. Most people would be at least a little annoyed. At a minimum you've to ring the knackery and get the horse to where it can be collected and probably ring the owner to tell them. Hardly high on the list of fun things to do.

buried

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I'm sure they care to a point but as I said they're the ones that win. Nobody asks or cares what they think of the one that came last.

It was bizzare and stupid, no idea what he was thinking. Most people would be at least a little annoyed. At a minimum you've to ring the knackery and get the horse to where it can be collected and probably ring the owner to tell them. Hardly high on the list of fun things to do.

All the animals are the tools of his job, he bought the animal. He didn't buy the thing knowing it was going to die exhausted on his track. The onus is on him to treat it with the same respect he would show a winning one. The fact he didn't just shows him up, and the industry itself to go with it.

Shelby Foote

If a fella at a halting site was sitting on a dead horse posing like that you might make up some excuses for him, like lack of education etc.

When a top race horse trainer like Elliott poses on a dead horse and allows himself to be photographed the only conclusions are he's boorish, a thick **** and despite being good at training horses his IQ isn't the best and there's not a lot going on upstairs.

YoshiSays

I think we should plant some fine and strong mighty oak and ash tree forests on the race courses of Ireland.
Something that would last generations, remind people of what is beautiful and what we lost and give us hope and courage for the future.
Alternatively your kids can watch a man with a mobile phone sit on a dead horse and aspire to that.

J.O. Farmer

buried wrote: »

All the animals are the tools of his job, he bought the animal. He didn't buy the thing knowing it was going to die exhausted on his track. The onus is on him to treat it with the same respect he would show a winning one. The fact he didn't just shows him up, and the industry itself to go with it.

It's unlikely he owned it, and I don't know whether the horse that died won anything or not. Apart from sitting on it all are probably shown the same respect dead and there might not be much dignity there.

My point was he's only ever asked about the ones that win when he's professing love. I hope if the horse was still alive but sick he'd have treated it as best it could be treated regardless of performance or value.

There's a poem death the leveller and all horses are worth the same dead regardless of what they did or didn't win.

buried

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

There's a poem death the leveller and all horses are worth the same dead regardless of what they did or didn't win.

They should write a new verse to have the dead horse on the ground winning and the owner's career dying instead

Muahahaha

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn’t know that they were allowed to take sponsorship from betting companies either. Surely there’s a conflict of interest here?

yeah I dont follow horse racing myself so was surprised to learn that a bookie (Betfair) are allowed to sponsor a horse trainer (Elliot), its clearly a massive conflict of interest.

Im not saying anything dodgy is going on but its more about bad optics and perception. If I were a bookies customer the idea that they could be getting information from horse trainers wouldnt sit well at all so Im not sure why they would have a sponsorship like that. Its hardly going to make their customers trust them when theyre sponsoring people in trainers yards who are a source of valuable information for the betting markets.

ShyMets

Whatever happens I just hope this story isnt all over the media furlong

dontmindme

If anything, Gordon Elliot could have been sitting on that horse due to his affection and attachment to the dead animal.

The fact that he was on the phone, and then his name being called for someone taking a photo, he may have been so distracted that he raised his hand in a peace sign gesture for the photo and thought no more about it.

I see no evidence of disrespect for the dead animal. This man has given his life to looking after and training horses, I think it's his possible over familiarity and genuine natural behaviour with the animals that has been wholly misinterpreted by the snowflake culture so pervasive in modern society - "shock horror, man sits on dead horse, oh the outrage!!" - without any knowledge of the context. That whatsapp video that was doing the rounds where the Dad was dropping off his teenage daughters and friends to the shops springs to mind - demonstrating that things aren't always as first appears...

Kermit.de.frog

ShyMets wrote: »

Whatever happens I just hope this story isnt all over the media furlong

Very under-rated post in my considered opinion.

Well done sir

Gregor Samsa

dontmindme wrote: »

If anything, Gordon Elliot could have been sitting on that horse due to his affection and attachment to the dead animal.

The fact that he was on the phone, and then his name being called for someone taking a photo, he may have been so distracted that he raised his hand in a peace sign gesture for the photo and thought no more about it.

Yeah. That’s really on the same level of credulity as those blokes that turn up at A&E with a bottle of ketchup stuck up their arse, claiming that they slipped and fell on it while innocently eating chips naked (because it was so warm) on the wet kitchen floor having just cleaned it.

joseywhales

Sitting on a dead horse is hardly a crime, no evidence he hurt the horse in any way. I mean people go out and actually shoot wild animals and then pose for photographs with them.