2021 Irish EV sales

Padraig Mor

Kramer wrote: »

A brand new, 211 reg Leaf 40 is €25k from Nissan, with scrappage.

If someone pays €24k for a 2 year old one, well, they're not a very savvy shopper .

gary29428 wrote: »

Was only asking as my sister is after a Leaf 2019ish....nothing out there below 23k....also not everyone has a scraper...my wife has a leaf and it's been brilliant, great car.

unkel wrote: »

That's pretty sweet if you don't mind the drawbacks of the car like it being an old design with an inefficient drivetrain, problems with fast charging on longer journeys and an obsolete fast charging technology. Still a very capable and reliable car for most people who don't care about the above.

Where did you come across that deal?

Really don't know what people have against the Leaf in this forum, and of course the usual apples and oranges comparison on pricing!

The Leaf (headline prices anyway) isn't "€25k" - that's the usual misleading advertising. Add in delivery and metallic (I've seen very few white L40s) and the cheapest model is ~€26300......and that's if you have a car to scrap (which most people don't), which then precludes you from the cheap rate finance (and the 0% isn't available on the cheapest XE model anyway). In my experience, these offers tend to have fairly strict conditions from the manufacturer - i.e. you ain't getting the scrappage if you don't have a qualifying car and if 'computer says no' for the 0%.....well, tough. Are there discounts available? More than likely, but that can be said for any model in the range for a number of years.

The earlier poster also specified the SV model which is higher spec and thus more expensive again. So it's not simply a case of "why would you buy a 2 year old at €25k when you can get a new one for the same price". I have a 182 SVE model with 50k km - PCP due up August but I'm vaguely considering an early exit to grab an ID4 1st model while still available. Having carefully looked at what's online currently over the last few days, I reckon there's every chance of getting €23k for it as a private sale (including Nissan extended warranty) and I'd be aiming for even more.

As for the usual inefficient / obsolete comments..... the Leaf seems to be in and about average on efficiency as far as I can see. Are some manufacturers better (I'm looking at you Hyundai)...well yes, but certainly not all. And fast charging? I've had mine since August 2018 and it's only ever been fast charged when in for a service or whatever - I've literally never fast charged it myself, and I'd say there's plenty like me. Do some competitors have better fast charging etc? Yes, but it's not an issue for many drivers.

I do agree that the L62 pricing ain't at the races though!

Padraig Mor

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Really don't know what people have against the Leaf in this forum, and of course the usual apples and oranges comparison on pricing!


As for the usual inefficient / obsolete comments.....

This thread is 6 days old and only 4 pages of replies ,
could you imagine if it was Tesla #1?
There would be 20 pages of back slapping

The only EV in our house is a L40 and its been fast charged twice ever.
Also the ID3 is in the 20/25 KW/100 (from the id3 thread here) and I havent seen anyone harping on about that.
Or the Hyundi ioniq/kona recall, hardly a mention.
If that was a leaf recall you wouldn't hear the end of it.

innrain

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

VRT
Cancelling the EV grant for business purchases
Not extending the zero BIK for company cars

I think it not only this. Is the whole hesitant policy making and implementation.
If you want to look at the BIK aspect first announced in 2017 for one year then extended in 2018 for 3 years and another year in 2019. I mean come on would you make up your mind already? It is not a phone to buy it for a year. And even now is not clear if new cars in 2021 still qualify for BIK exemption.

Then the 20M investment announced in April 2019 turned out to be window dressing. More than 50 high power charging hubs are being funded on motorway and national road sites. 2 years later we have one planned and we talk about "upgrading" 22kW AC to the already dated 50kW DC.
The 1000 On street chargers announced in August 2019 delivered ... nothing. LAs take their time in installing some sockets.


I found this website https://www.eafo.eu/ which gathers info about how others in EU are doing it.
We can see Germany committing up to 2030 at some levels while the Will's Ferrel nemesis, Norway has written beside it: A clear, stable policy framework and political commitment has been crucial to create a long-term reliable EV market conditions. We don't need to compare to them as they've started the whole EV incentives back in 1990, but we can learn from them. Unfortunately the policy around EVs is ambiguous at best. Announcing ban of new ICE sale by 2030 with no clear path how to get there is one example. Nobody believes it.

Busman Paddy Lasty

^^ 100%. Erratic commitments create uncertainty and companies won't invest under these conditions. The twelve EVs cancelled in our place would be doing over 50,000 kms per year. Now it's all done on ice.

Government should be opening the door for company purchases of vans as they use far more fuel than a car per km and total per year. A round about way to create a second hand market too.

Orebro

ELM327 wrote: »

You can now get a L62 for 700 p/m with no deposit, or an L40 for 550.
https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/offers/subscribe-and-drive.html

They are giving them away, and you've got a nationwide FCP network exclusively for leafs!

Since Kearys closed their Nissan dealership in Carrigrohane (or the Straight Road as it's known locally :-) ) the handy FCP is now behind closed gates - real shame to see it there gathering dust.

slave1

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Really don't know what people have against the Leaf in this forum....

I do agree that the L62 pricing ain't at the races though!

I don't think we are against the Leaf, just the L62 for the main reason you point out. We want to share our knowledge for the benefit of others, unfortunately the way it works is usually listing the disadvantages of the car so folk know what they are letting themselves in for and can make a more informed decision

BrownFinger wrote: »

This thread is 6 days old and only 4 pages of replies ,
could you imagine if it was Tesla #1?
There would be 20 pages of back slapping

The only EV in our house is a L40 and its been fast charged twice ever.
Also the ID3 is in the 20/25 KW/100 (from the id3 thread here) and I havent seen anyone harping on about that.
Or the Hyundi ioniq/kona recall, hardly a mention.
If that was a leaf recall you wouldn't hear the end of it.

A great advantage of the Leaf, it's bulletproof, well proved tech that's a decade on the road, we owe Nissan a debt of gratitude...

KCross

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Really don't know what people have against the Leaf in this forum, and of course the usual apples and oranges comparison on pricing!


As for the usual inefficient / obsolete comments..... the Leaf seems to be in and about average on efficiency as far as I can see. Are some manufacturers better (I'm looking at you Hyundai)...well yes, but certainly not all. And fast charging? I've had mine since August 2018 and it's only ever been fast charged when in for a service or whatever - I've literally never fast charged it myself, and I'd say there's plenty like me. Do some competitors have better fast charging etc? Yes, but it's not an issue for many drivers.

BrownFinger wrote: »

The only EV in our house is a L40 and its been fast charged twice ever.
Also the ID3 is in the 20/25 KW/100 (from the id3 thread here) and I havent seen anyone harping on about that.
Or the Hyundi ioniq/kona recall, hardly a mention.
If that was a leaf recall you wouldn't hear the end of it.

+1

Most of the anti-Leaf stuff on this forum is from a few vocal posters who have a specific viewpoint where the stats are all that matter... 0-100km/h, charge speed, etc. They'll talk about battery cooling, rapidgate and coldgate and any other internet buzzword but those things dont matter for the majority of people in this country.

Most people just couldnt care less about those things. They want to jump in and drive and as long as the range suits your needs then it doesnt matter. Being honest about the range is the most important thing.


I find commentary about "old tech" in the Leaf amusing too. Its got much the same tech as the competitors.... a Li-ion battery, a motor, app support, and 4 wheels that go round and round!

If the car suits your needs and the price is right then buy it.

Summer8181

Any ID4's in Ireland yet? Heard they were due in this week.

Looking forward to seeing them in the flesh.

ewj1978

Seen my first id3 in the flesh the other day. A grey paint job on it. Nice alloys, Pro edition on the side. Looked well spacious inside. Very nice looking tbh.

PaulRyan97

Summer8181 wrote: »

Any ID4's in Ireland yet? Heard they were due in this week.

Looking forward to seeing them in the flesh.

https://twitter.com/vwvinny/status/1369239127326130182

Started being delivered to dealers today from the looks of it.

Phil.x

ewj1978 wrote: »

Seen my first id3 in the flesh the other day. A grey paint job on it. Nice alloys, Pro edition on the side. Looked well spacious inside. Very nice looking tbh.

Also very spacious inside.

Black_Knight

March numbers, all numbers from https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

11.28% of new cars sold in March were electric bringing us to 5.87% for the year to date.

Rank|Make|Model|March 2021 Units|Total
1|NISSAN|LEAF|156| 445
2|VOLKSWAGEN|ID.4|411| 411
3|VOLKSWAGEN|ID.3|61|377
4|TESLA|MODEL 3|148|325
5|KIA|NIRO|48|268
6|HYUNDAI|KONA|75|197
7|RENAULT|ZOE|22|129
8|HYUNDAI|IONIQ|30|97
9|PEUGEOT|2008|11|96
10|AUDI|E-TRON|20|70
11|OPEL|CORSA|7|67
12|MINI|MINI HATCH|4|61
13|PEUGEOT|208|3|58
14|MG|MG ZS|12|49
15|MAZDA|MX|11|37
16|PORSCHE|TAYCAN|5|36
17|KIA|SOUL|4|27
18|BMW|I3|5|26
19|MERCEDES-BENZ|EQC|2|14
20|HONDA|HONDA E|4|14
21|JAGUAR|I-PACE|3|12
22|LEXUS|UX|2|8
23|TESLA|MODEL S|2|4
24|TESLA|MODEL X|0|1
25|MG|MG5|0|1
26|PORSCHE|OTHER PORSCHE|0|1

slave1

Don't get that Leaf figure

PaulRyan97

Updated my sales spreadsheet.

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Don't get that Leaf figure

Yeah they're selling surprisingly well to my eyes. Did Nissan have any promo going of late? I'd say they're desperate (from a marketing standpoint) to hold onto that "best selling EV in Ireland" line.


They could do with updating their site:
https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf.html

Europe's top-selling 100% electric car* has two versions for 2019 to match a range of lifestyles - Nissan LEAF 40kWh and Nissan LEAF 62kWh.

New for 2019, the 62kWh Nissan LEAF is equipped with....

AndyBoBandy

Black_Knight wrote: »

Yeah they're selling surprisingly well to my eyes. Did Nissan have any promo going of late? I'd say they're desperate (from a marketing standpoint) to hold onto that "best selling EV in Ireland" line.

I see a few knocking around with FAI logo's on them, so they must be lending a ton of them out to partners etc.....

I assume that figure of 445 for the year is registrations, and not actual sales?

Black_Knight

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

Updated my sales spreadsheet.

Very nice. Interesting trend overall in the last 5 years. Car sales slowing down. I remember watching some video around car sales in America a couple of years back. It talked about how car sales are slowing down, and there was some marketing excuse for it (I can't remember what it was) but they (the 2 lads on the video) theorised that car sales are slowing because people are looking towards EVs, and right now they don't see the right option for them at the right price point, but instead of committing to another new ICE car for 2-3 years, they're holding onto their existing car and waiting for the right EV. Think it talked about how mechanics for 2nd hand cars are going to get very busy for a period of time too, because everyone is holding onto their car.

TLDR. That car sales thread graph reminded me of a video saying car sales will slow down as people wait for the right EV to come along.

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Don't get that Leaf figure

€25k for a Leaf is a decent proposition. How much is the cheapest ID.3 (a much smaller car) currently?

AndyBoBandy

unkel wrote: »

€25k for a Leaf is a decent proposition.

...and you get an exclusive charging network... :mad:


its a fcuking great proposition...

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

Don't get that Leaf figure

unkel wrote: »

€25k for a Leaf is a decent proposition. How much is the cheapest ID.3 (a much smaller car) currently?

Surely the clued in will just get a used Ioniq28 and pocket the difference, same range give or take, faster charging, CCS etc

cannco253

Numerous VW dealers kept telling me only 250 ID.4 1st editions were coming to Ireland, I wonder where they all came up with that figure from...

eagerv

cannco253 wrote: »

Numerous VW dealers kept telling me only 250 ID.4 1st editions were coming to Ireland, I wonder where they all came up with that figure from...

They are all experts at that:). Last June I think I was told there would only be about 10 more Niros coming into the country that year!
Makes the customer feel there is little point in looking for discounts...

slave1

In general dealers are clueless when it comes to EVs, wifey is out looking at VW, Hyundai and Peugeot today and the utter nonsense they are saying is off the charts, clueless straight off the brochure crap

Black_Knight

slave1 wrote: »

Surely the clued in will just get a used Ioniq28 and pocket the difference, same range give or take, faster charging, CCS etc

Is finance an issue? New cars have cheaper finance options I guess 0% on the leaf. Second hand could be a bank loan, or cash.

ELM327

You can get a leaf for about 400 a month with no deposit on pcp. They are giving them away.

cannco253

Nissan getting rid of Leaf stock given that the Ariya is coming later in the year with CCS.

KCross

slave1 wrote: »

Don't get that Leaf figure

Because its a perfectly good car for the money... maybe?

It has no major software or hardware issues unlike VW and Tesla who are supposedly at the forefront! .
Its a nice drive, comfy seats, reasonable range, decent size, reasonable money....

Its only the geeks on here that consider the Leaf to be obsolete. For the buying public, who dont even know what boards.ie is, its just an EV, so it is at the forefront of tech for them, not obsolete.

AndyBoBandy

KCross wrote: »

Its only the geeks on here that consider the Leaf to be obsolete. For the buying public, who dont even know what boards.ie is, its just an EV, so it is at the forefront of tech for them, not obsolete.

I’d consider it to be a very viable option as it’s cheap and has the pedigree that comes with being one of the first mass market EV’s, Ever.

If only they ditched the antiquated CHAdeMO plug on it to bring in into the 21st century.......
If they did that, and eCars swapped all the CHAdeMO plugs for CCS, the fast charging network would essentially double overnight, with any car using all the plugs....

innrain

ID4 dethrones Tucson as the top sold car for March 2021. I know is a slow month but still I think it is a first when an EV comes on top.

Kramer

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

if ...eCars swapped all the CHAdeMO plugs for CCS, the fast charging network would essentially double overnight, with any car using all the plugs....

99%+ of single 50kW DC units can only charge one car at a time, regardless of DC connector type.

Lexus new BEV is CHAdeMO too......... & Outlanders.......thousands of legacy Leafs......

Leave CHAdeMO alone :P.

AndyBoBandy

innrain wrote: »

ID4 dethrones Tucson as the top sold car for March 2021. I know is a slow month but still I think it is a first when an EV comes on top.

you can't really count the month a car finally hits the Irish market as there would be big back orders etc... so you'll always see huge numbers when it's first released...

Wasn't the Model 3 the highest selling car in the month they finally started delivering them here?

innrain

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Wasn't the Model 3 the highest selling car in the month they finally started delivering them here?

You're right. Not in the first month but October 2019 Model 3 was top with 174 units

Black_Knight

April numbers, all numbers from https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

8.37% of new cars sold in March were electric bringing us to 6.18% for the year to date.
Top 20 EVs in Ireland in 2021. Bad month for Nissan. VW clear dominators this year.
Rank|Make|Model|April 2021 Units|Total
1| VOLKSWAGEN| ID.4|219 |626
2| VOLKSWAGEN| ID.3|109 |485
3| NISSAN| LEAF|29 |469
4| KIA| NIRO|67 |335
5| TESLA| MODEL 3|10 |335
6| HYUNDAI| KONA| 27|223
7| RENAULT| ZOE|28 |157
8| PEUGEOT| 2008|11 |107
9| HYUNDAI| IONIQ|6 |102
10| AUDI| E-TRON|27 |95
11| PEUGEOT| 208|11 |69
12| MINI| MINI HATCH|5 |66
13| OPEL| CORSA| 0|66
14| MG| MG ZS| 12|61
15| MAZDA| MX|7 |44
16| PORSCHE| TAYCAN|6 |42
17| KIA| SOUL| 5|32
18| BMW| I3| 1|27
19| JAGUAR| I-PACE|7 |19
20| MERCEDES-BENZ| EQC|3 |17

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

April numbers, all numbers from https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

Notwithstanding our January/July sales peaks & manufacturer release dates etc., VW sold more BEVs than EVERY OTHER manufacturer, COMBINED, in March :eek:.

They're going to dominate, followed by the Koreans, for the foreseeable future IMO.

the_amazing_raisin

Kramer wrote: »

Notwithstanding our January/July sales peaks & manufacturer release dates etc., VW sold more BEVs than EVERY OTHER manufacturer, COMBINED, in March :eek:.

They're going to dominate, followed by the Koreans, for the foreseeable future IMO.

A fair chunk of that was probably pent up demand for the ID.4, but if they can keep 100+ units per month average of both models then I think you're correct, they'll completely blow away the competition

It's telling that if you go onto VW's Ireland page, you have to scroll halfway down the page before they even mention an ICE car

I think the Hyundai/Kia EV wave will come in 2022, based on how the E-Niro/Kona were supply constrained when they came out. Add in Hyundai/Kia Ireland's ambivalent attitude towards EVs and I think they'll stay niche for this year

Tesla will no doubt pick up when Giga Berlin opens, but between paddy taxes and reduced EV incentives I don't think they'll be competing with the lower bracket ID.3/4s

Nissan are basically dead, waiting for the Ariya to rescue them

slave1

Delivery volumes, same with Kona, M3 etc, but they will deffo be up there and word of their software woes will start trickling though the masses.
Nissan will pick up a lot with the Ariya, they have a large proven EV sale structure via the Leaf and the Ariya is a looker and great size/spec.

3 EQC's, nice to get a go in one of those, EV porn on the inside

ELM327

1,000 IDs sold this year to date is impressive!

cannco253

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/05/15/10-european-countries-volkswagen-id-4-id-3-top-ev-sales-list-in-april-tesla-model-3-vw-id-4-in-january-april/

"The biggest news in April was that the Volkswagen ID.4 and Volkswagen ID.3 were far and away #1 and #2 in those 10 European countries (combined sales).

Looking at the full first 4 months of the year, the Tesla Model 3 is still comfortably holding onto its #1 position, and the ID.4 hasn’t yet caught up to the ID.3 — or even the Renault ZOE (#3), Hyundai Kona EV (#4), or Volkswagen e-Up (#5). Though, considering the April numbers, we could expect the ID.4 to climb at least a couple of spots in May"

As expected really, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 2 or 3 months with VW.

the_amazing_raisin

cannco253 wrote: »

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/05/15/10-european-countries-volkswagen-id-4-id-3-top-ev-sales-list-in-april-tesla-model-3-vw-id-4-in-january-april/

"The biggest news in April was that the Volkswagen ID.4 and Volkswagen ID.3 were far and away #1 and #2 in those 10 European countries (combined sales).

Looking at the full first 4 months of the year, the Tesla Model 3 is still comfortably holding onto its #1 position, and the ID.4 hasn’t yet caught up to the ID.3 — or even the Renault ZOE (#3), Hyundai Kona EV (#4), or Volkswagen e-Up (#5). Though, considering the April numbers, we could expect the ID.4 to climb at least a couple of spots in May"

As expected really, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next 2 or 3 months with VW.

It's interesting because you can tell the volume runners are companies that have thrown their weight behind EVs

Tesla, fairly obvious
VW, 2 factories in Europe flat out producing EVs, another being converted, another planned to be converted
Renault, bit dated but it's hard to beat the Zoe for value
PSA group, I'd call them a latecomer but the e208 and other vehicles seem a good offer
Hyundai/Kia, seem to finally be churning volume with the Kona/E-Niro

And by contrast the others

Mercedes, don't care
BMW, don't care
Volvo, barely care
Polestar, great car but not a volume runner
Fiat, don't care
Mazda, don't care
Etc

idc

Just curious what is it that has pushed VW so high in the numbers versus say PSA group. Is the ID 3 a much better car than e208 ?

KCross

idc wrote: »

Just curious what is it that has pushed VW so high in the numbers versus say PSA group. Is the ID 3 a much better car than e208 ?

Which car is better can be subjective but I’d say the main reason is that VW are committed and are actively pushing the sales of their EVs.

Black_Knight

E208 isn't a platform up EV so doesn't have some of the benifits pure EVs get, and yeah, Peugeot aren't marketing then as much.

The big range (km) from VW and the size of their cars are much more appealing. Id3 is much more practical compared to the e208, and the ID4 pretty much has no competition .... Yet. Closest by size in that price range is the eniro, which is a decent size, but the id4 is far more practical.

eagerv

idc wrote: »

Just curious what is it that has pushed VW so high in the numbers versus say PSA group. Is the ID 3 a much better car than e208 ?

Totally different car segment, like comparing a Fiesta to a Focus.


Also the ID.3 has a bigger battery and more performance with RWD .Price wise the ID.3 starts at about the price of a high end e208 and while the spec is often complained about here, is sufficient for many.


Our neighbours have taken an interest in EVs after seeing our 2 in action and have ordered an e208. Like many retired people they only need two seats and found the ID.3 a little too big. Looking forward to seeing it next week, they got the included home charge point fitted last week.

Jizique

idc wrote: »

Just curious what is it that has pushed VW so high in the numbers versus say PSA group. Is the ID 3 a much better car than e208 ?

VW are desperate to sell enough EVs that will allow them to avoid fines while 95% of their sales are ICE, esp the Tiguan, which is massively profitable; PSA has less need to sell EVs as it has a lower starting carbon footprint and doesn’t have big-engined Porsche, Audi and Lambos to offse.

Jizique

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

It's interesting because you can tell the volume runners are companies that have thrown their weight behind EVs

Tesla, fairly obvious
VW, 2 factories in Europe flat out producing EVs, another being converted, another planned to be converted
Etc

Which are the 2 VW factories, Zwickau and.....

the_amazing_raisin

idc wrote: »

Just curious what is it that has pushed VW so high in the numbers versus say PSA group. Is the ID 3 a much better car than e208 ?

I imagine the fact that there's something like €7k difference between the petrol and electric versions of the 208 makes a big difference

The ID.3 isn't cheap, but neither is the Golf so it creates a more even footing

the_amazing_raisin

Jizique wrote: »

Which are the 2 VW factories, Zwickau and.....

Dresden, which is admittedly limited production. It's the glass factory where they do the tours

Emden is the next plant being converted, if think it's slated to build the ID.3 and 4 and the derivatives

I think Hannover is next, that'll be building the ID.Buzz van and the Space Vizzion if it gets built

There's also a factory in the US (Chattanooga, Tennessee) which is going to be building the ID.4 from next year, plus 2 more factories in China which are joint ventures with JAC and FAIC I think

Finally, VW are also building 6 battery plants around Europe, a combination of VW factories and partnerships with other companies

Robotfarmer

You can really see the ID4'S on the road over the past month. Are there plans for more charging stations planned for motorways and smaller towns. With the growth in EV's, we will all be in a queue to charge.

Where can we find EV stations currently in build?

AC chargers won't cut the mustard.

Black_Knight

Robotfarmer wrote: »

You can really see the ID4'S on the road over the past month. Are there plans for more charging stations planned for motorways and smaller towns. With the growth in EV's, we will all be in a queue to charge.

Where can we find EV stations currently in build?

AC chargers won't cut the mustard.

Ask ecars nicely they might tell you, but as far as I know the old one bring built right now is Mayfield hub (4 units, max of 8 cars). Due in June/July last I heard

Jizique

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Dresden, which is admittedly limited production. It's the glass factory where they do the tours

Emden is the next plant being converted, if think it's slated to build the ID.3 and 4 and the derivatives

I think Hannover is next, that'll be building the ID.Buzz van and the Space Vizzion if it gets built

There's also a factory in the US (Chattanooga, Tennessee) which is going to be building the ID.4 from next year, plus 2 more factories in China which are joint ventures with JAC and FAIC I think

Finally, VW are also building 6 battery plants around Europe, a combination of VW factories and partnerships with other companies

Don’t think Demand will be high enough for the existing models to be built in Emden as well; the US production of ID4 will be fairly limited, sub 20k out of a factory will capacity of 250k; the Atlas will remain the big product there