Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Eight injured in "terrorist" stabbing attack Sweden

Options
123578

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,492 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    My comment was purely a semantic one on the definition of Islamophobia. Even then, I contrasted bigotry to an actual justified fear of getting one's head lopped off, not conflated. One would be bigoted to have a fear of Muhammad the software engineer just because he is from a Muslim background, whereas fearing a person who is actively preaching hatred and threats based on their interpretation of Islam would be quite reasonable given the implied threat of head lopping.

    Problem is, people who have committed terrorist attacks in Europe, haven’t been people hiding in the shadows and preaching hate etc...

    They have been family men / women in the main.... functioning in society in jobs for the most part. Had families etc...

    It’s only a matter of time before it happens here... and it will..

    The Global Islamic Resistance Call is a book written by Abu Musab al-Suri.. it’s the blueprint for what’s going on in the world right now...

    It was ok with us when it was going on in Syria, the odd attack in France even.. when the Nice attacks happened, a two minute walk away from the hotel I normally stay at it was a wake up call...

    The reason they are doing it ? Not because of hate but because they believe we are wrong and they want to change our lives... to one where we are drilled, regimented under their ways religion and customs. Yet, we have invited, paid and housed. On our doorsteps.... troubles are coming. If it can happen in Sweden it can happen here..


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Strumms wrote: »
    Problem is, people who have committed terrorist attacks in Europe, haven’t been people hiding in the shadows and preaching hate etc...

    They have been family men / women in the main.... functioning in society in jobs for the most part. Had families etc...

    It’s only a matter of time before it happens here... and it will..

    The Global Islamic Resistance Call is a book written by Abu Musab al-Suri.. it’s the blueprint for what’s going on in the world right now...

    It was ok with us when it was going on in Syria, the odd attack in France even.. when the Nice attacks happened, a two minute walk away from the hotel I normally stay at it was a wake up call...

    The reason they are doing it ? Not because of hate but because they believe we are wrong and they want to change our lives... to one where we are drilled, regimented under their ways religion and customs. Yet, we have invited, paid and housed. On our doorsteps.... troubles are coming. If it can happen in Sweden it can happen here..

    Given the (relatively) low number of terrorist attacks (the number of terrorist attacks in Europe was at its highest in the 70s and 80s. We are at a relative peak compared with ~2010, but still way below the peak number of terrorist attacks per annum in the 70s/80s) and the huge number of Muslims out there, I'd still say that treating every Muslim as if they're a terrorist amounts to bigotry rather than reasonable risk assessment.

    To use the obvious, probably overused example, it is akin to the nutter cohort on the other side who spout that all men are potential rapists because some men have raped.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Given the (relatively) low number of terrorist attacks (the number of terrorist attacks in Europe was at its highest in the 70s and 80s. We are at a relative peak compared with ~2010, but still way below the peak number of terrorist attacks per annum in the 70s/80s) and the huge number of Muslims out there

    The fallacy of inference from poorly compiled and correlated stats.

    Globally the number are "not as bad", yes.

    In the West, its getting worse. (Even allowing for how they're now classified).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    It's funny how these phobic terms only ever go one way. It's almost like they are ideological tools to shut down conversation.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    The fallacy of inference from poorly compiled and correlated stats.

    Globally the number are "not as bad", yes.

    In the West, its getting worse. (Even allowing for how they're now classified).

    Nope, you've got it ar*eways, the peak numbers of terrorist attacks per annum specifically in Western Europe occurred during the 70s and 80s, globally they have increased particularly due to high numbers in Pakistan, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Syria.

    The numbers have been increasing (specifically in Western Europe) since 2010 but have not reached the peaks of the 70s and 80s.

    But who needs statistics when you can go with gut feeling due to increased media coverage?

    My numbers are from a 2017 EUISS study, what about yours?
    TomTomTim wrote: »
    It's funny how these phobic terms only ever go one way. It's almost like they are ideological tools to shut down conversation.

    It's funny how many people complain about conversation being shut down in the middle of said conversation....


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Nope, you've got it ar*eways, the peak numbers of terrorist attacks per annum specifically in Western Europe occurred during the 70s and 80s, globally they have increased particularly due to high numbers in Pakistan, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Syria.

    The numbers have been increasing (specifically in Western Europe) since 2010 but have not reached the peaks of the 70s and 80s.

    But who needs statistics when you can go with gut feeling due to increased media coverage?

    My numbers are from a 2017 EUISS study, what about yours?



    It's funny how many people complain about conversation being shut down in the middle of said conversation....

    Stick up a reference


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Stick up a reference

    I just told you what I was referencing; Trends in Terrorism, the European Union Institute for Security Studies, March 2017.

    Apart from gut feeling, do you have any figures or references?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    It's funny how these phobic terms only ever go one way. It's almost like they are ideological tools to shut down conversation.

    Which is funny because suppositions such as this actually do shut down conversation.

    It's happening quite a lot on boards these days where threads are reported or someone uses terminology others disagree with and oops here we go accusations of 'shutting down conversation'.. and here we are off the back of that having a conversation about shutting conversation.

    I'd say let the mods mod, report something off topic or just ignore it.. but here I am doing the same back seat modding..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    km991148 wrote: »
    Which is funny because suppositions such as this actually do shut down conversation.

    It's happening quite a lot on boards these days where threads are reported or someone uses terminology others disagree with and oops here we go accusations of 'shutting down conversation'.. and here we are off the back of that having a conversation about shutting conversation.

    I'd say let the mods mod, report something off topic or just ignore it.. but here I am doing the same back seat modding..

    I've very rarely came across people who use said terms who don't want to shut threads down. Those type of posters used to regularly be in feedback trying to shut down threads that they didn't like, so it's a belief that at least has some substance. That's not applicable to anyone in this thread to be fair, but it's generally true. At the end of the day, it's hard to accept that people who essentially throw around insults, and lack arguments, are here in good faith.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    I've very rarely came across people who use said terms who don't want to shut threads down. Those type of posters used to regularly be in feedback trying to shut down threads that they didn't like, so it's a belief that at least has some substance. That's not applicable to anyone in this thread to be fair, but it's generally true. At the end of the day, it's hard to accept that people who essentially throw around insults, and lack arguments, are here in good faith.

    But there you go.. it's generalisation and it does stop discussion (I'm not saying deliberately or otherwise).

    Where is the feedback thread? For CA? sorry mods, in a wonderful turn of irony the conversation has now been interrupted..


  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    I just told you what I was referencing; Trends in Terrorism, the European Union Institute for Security Studies, March 2017.

    Apart from gut feeling, do you have any figures or references?

    Normally people provide a link to back themselves up.

    I'll try rebut your argument at that point!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Normally people provide a link to back themselves up.

    I'll try rebut your argument at that point!

    My reference was presented in an entirely normal way one would provide a reference.

    Highlighting and copy/pasting the title I provided into your search engine of choice would've given you the document in question as the first result. If that is too much effort for you, I don't hold much faith in your ability to rebut anything very well. It is quite bizarre to moan about it when just doing so would've taken less effort than your post.

    Nonetheless, to save you the incredible amount of effort it would have required, the document can be downloaded in its entirety from here;

    https://www.iss.europa.eu/content/trends-terrorism


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    My reference was presented in an entirely normal way one would provide a reference.

    Highlighting and copy/pasting the title I provided into your search engine of choice would've given you the document in question as the first result. If that is too much effort for you, I don't hold much faith in your ability to rebut anything very well. It is quite bizarre to moan about it when just doing so would've taken less effort than your post.

    Nonetheless, to save you the incredible amount of effort it would have required, the document can be downloaded in its entirety from here;

    https://www.iss.europa.eu/content/trends-terrorism

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that report is mainly about European terrorist acts ( and not particularly Islamic / religion based attacks ) I dont remember hearing very much about isis, taliban or Al-Qaeda terrorism acts back then? At least not in the sense of what we are experiencing today.Like the stabbing incident under discussion here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    jmreire wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but that report is mainly about European terrorist acts ( and not particularly Islamic / religion based attacks ) I dont remember hearing very much about isis, taliban or Al-Qaeda terrorism acts back then? At least not in the sense of what we are experiencing today.Like the stabbing incident under discussion here.

    Well consider yourself corrected...

    Back then.....in 2017?

    The document is about all terrorist attacks and specifically mentions Daesh, Al Qaeda, the Madrid, London and Paris attacks.

    To quote directly from the document;
    There had, of course, been previous terrorist attacks planned from the south, but whereas these were organised by citizens from third countries, it is now European citizens themselves who perpetrate attacks in the name of non-European organisations such as Daesh
    or al-Qaeda. This highlights the importance of a
    shared European response, particularly with regard
    to European returnees from Syria and Iraq.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    PC people interviewed on TV - "the victims were in the wrong place at the wrong time".
    No, it was Tamim Sultani that was in the wrong place.

    He was already convicted for crimes before this attack (albeit petty drug crimes).
    If he had been in jail or deported then these people would still be unharmed today.

    Tamim Sultani was brought to an arraignment this morning and yelled "I haven't done anything", claiming he was innocent.

    I think he will be sent for psychiatric evaluation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    biko wrote: »
    PC people interviewed on TV - "the victims were in the wrong place at the wrong time".
    ....

    God help us... we'd nearly apologise and offer to pay for the cleaning of the knife.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    WrenBoy wrote: »
    God help us... we'd nearly apologise and offer to pay for the cleaning of the knife.

    You're joking, but Sweden has seen similar. There was a case of a Swedish man who got raped by a migrant, who felt sorry for the migrant after, and didn't want him to be deported. There was also a case in Germany where a girl was gang raped by migrants. She blamed natives at first. Eventually, she admitted the truth. After that she wrote a letter to the men who raped her apologizing for what had happened. The western "progressive" mindset is truly a sick one, and I take no satisfaction saying that.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,492 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Given the (relatively) low number of terrorist attacks (the number of terrorist attacks in Europe was at its highest in the 70s and 80s. We are at a relative peak compared with ~2010, but still way below the peak number of terrorist attacks per annum in the 70s/80s) and the huge number of Muslims out there, I'd still say that treating every Muslim as if they're a terrorist amounts to bigotry rather than reasonable risk assessment.

    To use the obvious, probably overused example, it is akin to the nutter cohort on the other side who spout that all men are potential rapists because some men have raped.

    What relatively low number ? One terrorist attack is one too many... because they are less or more then before that’s ok ?

    We don’t treat every Muslim as if they are terrorists. We have all or many of us will have shared workplaces, social outlets with people of, differing faiths and beliefs...no issues...

    The problem is, when we look around and see multiple Islamic terror attacks in..

    France

    Spain

    Germany

    Denmark

    Turkey

    Belgium

    UK

    Netherlands

    Austria

    so about one third of all EU states have been victims of Islamic terror attacks. Many of those countries have been attacked multiple times.

    Islamic attacks in the EU , launched attacks vs planned / foiled attacks...

    https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-hasnt-won-the-war-on-terror/

    You be a fool to think it won’t happen here... because it will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Strumms wrote: »
    What relatively low number ? One terrorist attack is one too many... because they are less or more then before that’s ok ?

    We don’t treat every Muslim as if they are terrorists. We have all or many of us will have shared workplaces, social outlets with people of, differing faiths and beliefs...no issues...

    The problem is, when we look around and see multiple Islamic terror attacks in..

    France

    Spain

    Germany

    Denmark

    Turkey

    Belgium

    UK

    Netherlands

    Austria

    so about one third of all EU states have been victims of Islamic terror attacks. Many of those countries have been attacked multiple times.

    Islamic attacks in the EU , launched attacks vs planned / foiled attacks...

    https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-hasnt-won-the-war-on-terror/

    You be a fool to think it won’t happen here... because it will.

    Last I heard, Ireland was an organisational hub for Islamic terror groups so they prefer to keep a low profile here.

    Which suits our Government fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    One Swedish paper rang the older brother in Qasaba, Kabul.
    Described as a Haven of Peace for Kabul’s middle class

    Why isn't Tamim Sultani living in safety with his brother instead of in a Nordic country thousands of miles away?




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Strumms wrote: »
    What relatively low number ? One terrorist attack is one too many... because they are less or more then before that’s ok ?

    We don’t treat every Muslim as if they are terrorists. We have all or many of us will have shared workplaces, social outlets with people of, differing faiths and beliefs...no issues...

    The problem is, when we look around and see multiple Islamic terror attacks in..

    France

    Spain

    Germany

    Denmark

    Turkey

    Belgium

    UK

    Netherlands

    Austria

    so about one third of all EU states have been victims of Islamic terror attacks. Many of those countries have been attacked multiple times.

    Islamic attacks in the EU , launched attacks vs planned / foiled attacks...

    https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-hasnt-won-the-war-on-terror/

    You be a fool to think it won’t happen here... because it will.

    Relatively low is clearly contextualised in the post. Low relative to the significantly higher number of terrorist attacks of the 70s and 80s, despite people talking up a panic as if times have never been more dangerous and we're all only minutes away from being murdered by Islamic terrorists.

    What percentage of EU states have been the victims of terrorist attacks from those with a Christian background? White terrorists? Black terrorists?

    I'm certainly not defending Islamic terrorist attacks, but sitting in fear of one....I don't think so. It is so low down the list of things likely to kill me that it is barely worth a moment of thought.

    I'm happy to condemn anyone involved with any sort of extremism, I agree with casting a close eye over anyone returning from the likes of Syria, I think we should continue with counterintelligence efforts Europe-wide to stop attacks and infiltrate cells before they can strike.....but when I'm hiring and have an application from outside the EU, the person's religion will continue to not impact my consideration of that person for the role even if that means another Muslim immigrant into Ireland (which is where most people tend to go when following your logical pathway).


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    My reference was presented in an entirely normal way one would provide a reference.

    Highlighting and copy/pasting the title I provided into your search engine of choice would've given you the document in question as the first result. If that is too much effort for you, I don't hold much faith in your ability to rebut anything very well. It is quite bizarre to moan about it when just doing so would've taken less effort than your post.

    Nonetheless, to save you the incredible amount of effort it would have required, the document can be downloaded in its entirety from here;

    https://www.iss.europa.eu/content/trends-terrorism

    Good man, that wasn't too difficult!

    As per earlier, inference from stats is tricky, especially when arguing about apples using pictures of oranges.

    Your link refers to all terrorist attacks...

    Staying on topic , with more specific statistics on Jihadi attacks, that which were discussing, the following is the situation:

    3722

    Link:
    http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/553/1097


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Good man, that wasn't too difficult!

    As per earlier, inference from stats is tricky, especially when arguing about apples using pictures of oranges.

    Your link refers to all terrorist attacks...

    Staying on topic , with more specific statistics on Jihadi attacks, that which were discussing, the following is the situation:

    3722

    Link:
    http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/553/1097

    Yes, my link refers to all terrorist attacks......because my comment was about all terrorist attacks.

    "The peak numbers of terrorist attacks per annum specifically in Western Europe occurred during the 70s and 80s" is what I stated, this is supported by the document I provided.

    Simply put, you are less likely to be killed by a terrorist attack today than you would've been in the 70s and 80s. I would consider this more significant than the precise ideology of who is committing each attack.

    It is entirely unsurprising that we do not have any Daesh attacks in the 70s or 80s, they were formed in 1999. It is entirely unsurprising that we have very few Al-Qaeda attacks during the 70s and 80s as they were formed in 1988 and so were only present for two years of those two decades.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Well consider yourself corrected...

    Back then.....in 2017?

    The document is about all terrorist attacks and specifically mentions Daesh, Al Qaeda, the Madrid, London and Paris attacks.

    To quote directly from the document;

    No,I meant further back than 2017...thats present times..I mean go back at least 20-30-35 years ago.These kind of specific terrorist attacks in main land Europe were unheard of back then . True, you did have highly publicised attacks like airline hijackings, kidnappings etc. But solo suicide bomber's, the likes of what we are seeing now, who use any means at hand to kill random people were unknown back then.So yes, in that demographic there has been an increase, and it will continue as they are religion driven


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Yes, my link refers to all terrorist attacks......because my comment was about all terrorist attacks.

    "The peak numbers of terrorist attacks per annum specifically in Western Europe occurred during the 70s and 80s" is what I stated, this is supported by the document I provided.

    Simply put, you are less likely to be killed by a terrorist attack today than you would've been in the 70s and 80s. I would consider this more significant than the precise ideology of who is committing each attack.

    It is entirely unsurprising that we do not have any Daesh attacks in the 70s or 80s, they were formed in 1999. It is entirely unsurprising that we have very few Al-Qaeda attacks during the 70s and 80s as they were formed in 1988 and so were only present for two years of those two decades.

    Why would you talk about all terrorist attacks when discussing Islamaphobia and fear of a jihadi type attack?

    Why would you rely on historic statistics compiled of all terrorist attacks, to dismiss fears (however well founded or not) of an Islamic attack in Europe today?



    The old trick of muddying the waters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Why would you talk about all terrorist attacks when discussing Islamaphobia and fear of a jihadi type attack?

    Why would you rely on historic statistics compiled of all terrorist attacks, to dismiss fears (however well founded or not) of an Islamic attack in Europe today?



    The old trick of muddying the waters.

    Because the thread is about a terrorist attack.....and as per the statistics I provided, you are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack now than you were in the 70s and 80s. My suggestion is that perhaps fears of terrorist attacks are somewhat overblown given that we live in a period of (relatively) low terrorist attacks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,538 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Because the thread is about a terrorist attack.....and as per the statistics I provided, you are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack now than you were in the 70s and 80s. My suggestion is that perhaps fears of terrorist attacks are somewhat overblown given that we live in a period of (relatively) low terrorist attacks.

    The fact is that we should not have to live under the threat of any terrorist attack, regardless of statistics..maybe statistically, your chances of getting killed or injured here in Ireland, are about the same as you winning the lottery, or maybe not even as good.....nonetheless. if it happens to you, then it becomes your whole world..or end of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    jmreire wrote: »
    The fact is that we should not have to live under the threat of any terrorist attack, regardless of statistics..maybe statistically, your chances of getting killed or injured here in Ireland, are about the same as you winning the lottery, or maybe not even as good.....nonetheless. if it happens to you, then it becomes your whole world..or end of it.

    And as unfortunate as that is, at no point in history have we lived without where threat of terrorist attack....and at most points through history, that risk has been higher than it is now....and so, my point continues to be that current fears are overblown.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Because the thread is about a terrorist attack.....and as per the statistics I provided, you are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack now than you were in the 70s and 80s. My suggestion is that perhaps fears of terrorist attacks are somewhat overblown given that we live in a period of (relatively) low terrorist attacks.

    Yet in a thread about an Islamic Jihadi attack, not terrorism, and amid a discussion of irrational fear of an Islamic attack, clear evidence of a rise in the number of Islamic Jihadi attacks in Europe supports the view "Islamphobia" of a Jihadi attack is not irrational, but a reasonable position, and far more relevant than using historic ETA/IRA etc attacks to try hide this simple fact, for whatever reason.

    Maybe you'd have better luck plying your wares in a new thread about terrorist attacks in general?

    You've now made a new claim - "less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack" today than than the 70s/80s in "Europe".
    This is a function of the probability of both dying and being in a terrorist attack. In Europe.
    Anyway, for Europe:

    _90851053_datav11.jpg

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-37085042
    (See, you can argue what you want, how you want with stats unless the criteria are set)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Yet in a thread about an Islamic Jihadi attack, not terrorism, and amid a discussion of irrational fear of an Islamic attack, clear evidence of a rise in the number of Islamic Jihadi attacks in Europe supports the view "Islamphobia" of a Jihadi attack is not irrational, but a reasonable position, and far more relevant than using historic ETA/IRA etc attacks to try hide this simple fact, for whatever reason.

    Maybe you'd have better luck plying your wares in a new thread about terrorist attacks in general?

    You've now made a new claim - "less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack" today than than the 70s/80s in "Europe".
    This is a function of the probability of both dying and being in a terrorist attack. In Europe.
    Anyway, for Europe:

    _90851053_datav11.jpg

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-37085042
    (See, you can argue what you want, how you want with stats unless the criteria are set)

    The thread is about a terrorist attack. I responded with comments on terrorist attacks. Perhaps if you think discussing terrorist attacks in a thread about a terrorist attack is off topic, it isnt me who needs to find a new thread in which to ply their wares?!

    Myself, I'll leave it to a moderator to decide if my posts are off topic....

    From your own link though,
    However, researchers pointed out that the 1970s saw several years with higher terrorism death tolls, so Western Europe is not "in a downward spiral".

    Isn't it wonderful when someone sticks up a link without reading it and it states the opposite of what they're trying to argue.


Advertisement