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Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

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    #752
    applehunter
    Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭applehunter


    There is a reason women are not in more leadership positions.

    Women prioritize other things in their life.

    Modern feminism wants women to be competing with men in the workplace.

    Its against their natures.


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    #753
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    true-or-false wrote: »
    When someone says 'gender pay gap', they mean the first explanation you've provided. That's what the terminology means.

    You can mistake it for the second, by all means, by not being bothered to google it.

    it might mean that on paper but sadly that is not the interpretation on the ground.


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    #754
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    jrosen wrote: »
    Facilitate in what way?

    From a personal stand point I would expect any partner to share in the responsibility of being a parent and all that entails. Sick days/flex days/pick up and drop off of kids from childcare.

    Within the work place there is usually already processes in place when people return to work from any leave.

    Being open to people continued being involved on a project or in relation to work even if working remotely exclusively.
    Encouraging the company to find ways to keep people involved.
    Accepting that people can make decisions even while not being onsite.
    Encouraging the company to allow people to ramp up their time so they get more involved with worker than might ordinarily have been the case.
    Where there is a care situation which relates to one of their family members, take their share of the responsibility in providing this where possible so their wife/partnet/sister etc can continue to be involved at work.

    As I said, many are doing this already, and there will be some women who the day they go on maternity they will not want to hear from the company for as long as possible, but there will also be some who will be eager to feel involved and contributing while also being a mother.


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    #755
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Tell me how wrote: »
    This is definitely something you haven't thought of, I'm quite sure of that.

    But how about men look to facilitate womens careers advancing in any way they can help. If that means helping out with caring and other duties at home, if it means ensuring they get opportunities in the workplace or assisting with their transition back to work or continued involvement in work while they take some time to provide care.

    Now, I expect a reaction of outrage here where some will say there is absolutely no way that they should have to accommodate women in this way, but, is it not true to say that quite often many women are accommodating men in taking on care duties to the detriment of their career.

    And if you don't want to do it for Theresa (the lazy so and so) or whoever, it's about contributing to an environment where a female you care about could ultimately benefit.

    I must point out, that I feel that a large number of men are already on board with this type of stuff and there has been progress made in this respect but it seems like a completely alien concept to many on this thread.

    What a cheap, mean man you are.

    You're imputing all sorts of chauvinistic attitudes to me and others.

    Yes I could help my partner out. Now what does that gave to do with politics? Or with you for that matter.

    You obviously want a political solution imposed on people.

    'contributing to an environment', soft-focus waffle


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    #756
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    applehunter wrote: »
    There is a reason women are not in more leadership positions.

    Women prioritize other things in their life.

    Modern feminism wants women to be competing with men in the workplace.

    Its against their natures.

    Angela Merkel, Nicola Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, are just a few who would disagree with this.

    Instead of presuming what women's nature is, why not listen to what it is they say they want?


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    #757
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    growleaves wrote: »
    What a cheap, mean man you are.

    You're imputing all sorts of chauvinistic attitudes to me and others.

    Yes I could help my partner out. Now what does that gave to do with politics? Or with you for that matter.

    You obviously want a political solution imposed on people.

    'contributing to an environment', soft-focus waffle

    Sigh.
    #thoughtsandprayers for offending you.

    I specifically said many men are already on board and what I laid out as some possible steps is a completely non-political approach.
    Don't suggest I am imparting chauvinistic attitudes on others when the last post I just responded to was a man saying what it is womens nature to do.


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    #758
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    applehunter wrote: »
    There is a reason women are not in more leadership positions.

    Women prioritize other things in their life.

    Modern feminism wants women to be competing with men in the workplace.

    Its against their natures.

    Women are not a hive mind.

    What do you know about anyones nature!


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    #759
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Angela Merkel, Nicola Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, are just a few who would disagree with this.

    Instead of presuming what women's nature is, why not listen to what it is they say they want?

    Most of the women I know want kids and a family, I know 2 who don't want kids. None have ever expressed any desire to be CEO or run a company, and none are particularly career focused (bar one who works in the arts). Neither have any of the lads I know for that matter.


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    #760
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Sigh.
    #thoughtsandprayers for offending you.

    I specifically said many men are already on board and what I laid out as some possible steps is a completely non-political approach.
    Don't suggest I am imparting chauvinistic attitudes on others when the last post I just responded to was a man saying what it is womens nature to do.

    Thoughts and prayers are needed. Maybe a mass said.

    Bizarre to call someone cheap or mean for supporting others?

    Does not suit the petty minded threatened Agenda I suppose.


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    #761
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Most of the women I know want kids and a family, I know 2 who don't want kids. None have ever expressed any desire to be CEO or run a company, and none are particularly career focused (bar one who works in the arts). Neither have any of the lads I know for that matter.

    Most men don't end up as CEO's either. There are any number of positions between being an intern and having the top job. And all these can be challenging, motivating, rewarding and fulfilling.

    I know plenty women who want both a family and a meaningful career. It doesn't have to be either/or for men, why should it be for women?


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    #762
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Most men don't end up as CEO's either. There are any number of positions between being an intern and having the top job. And all these can be challenging, motivating, rewarding and fulfilling.

    I know plenty women who want both a family and a meaningful career. It doesn't have to be either/or for men, why should it be for women?

    It isn't an either or for them, who said it was? Whenever disparities are looked at in the workplace it is always the most high profile jobs that are given as an example of how there are supposed barriers in the workplace for women. As you rightly pointed out, few people people end up in these jobs regardless of their gender, and few people want them to begin with. On average however, I would say more men do then women.


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    #763
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Anything that promotes equality is good for society.

    Equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?


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    #764
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    anewme wrote: »
    Women are not a hive mind.

    What do you know about anyones nature!

    It’s fair to say that gender influences the probability of certain character traits manifesting in an individual.


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    #765
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?

    I would suggest that equality of opportunity would ultimately deliver something closer to equality of outcome than what currently exists.

    But, to be clear, I am not advocating a defacto cross the board 50% split in order to get there.

    And while I think some advocates refer to the outcome evidence to support their case for generating opportunity, I don't think most are demanding that it is enforced either.


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    #766
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It isn't an either or for them, who said it was? Whenever disparities are looked at in the workplace it is always the most high profile jobs that are given as an example of how there are supposed barriers in the workplace for women. As you rightly pointed out, few people people end up in these jobs regardless of their gender, and few people want them to begin with. On average however, I would say more men do then women.

    You can always tell the one's who have been indoctrinated...they can tell you all about the gender of CEOs whom they never see or hear from, but they ignore the men picking up rubbish bins, doing road repairs, working on building sites, climbing telephone poles even though they see these guys all the time in all kinds of weather...it's only the indoor glamour roles they want equality in...

    Most of them will learn that actually very few people enjoy fulfilling jobs for their entire career, mostly people work in jobs that helps them pay the bills...and if you are in a single income home with a partner and child to feed, you will probably take as much overtime as you can get.


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    #767
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    anewme wrote: »
    Thoughts and prayers are needed. Maybe a mass said.

    Bizarre to call someone cheap or mean for supporting others?

    Does not suit the petty minded threatened Agenda I suppose.

    No, for his patronising tone and extreme characterisation of attitudes ('lazy so and so').

    What's my petty-minded agenda? I've only contributed a handful of posts, I'm not here on a mission.

    I don't see that a gap between final earned income as an earth-shattering problem. Its on you to explain why it is, and why a communistic total division of earnings is a desired outcome and how it can be achieved.

    If posters can't even begin to do that without descending into insults that's not a good start.


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    #768
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    You can always tell the one's who have been indoctrinated...they can tell you all about the gender of CEOs whom they never see or hear from, but they ignore the men picking up rubbish bins, doing road repairs, working on building sites, climbing telephone poles even though they see these guys all the time in all kinds of weather...it's only the indoor glamour roles they want equality in...

    It's about choice. You should be able to choose a career and there should be no ceiling, once you put the work in and get the qualifications.

    If men or women want to work on the bins, then that is their own choice.

    If men or women dont want to work doing bins, that's also their choice.


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    #769
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    growleaves wrote: »
    No, for his patronising tone and extreme characterisation of attitudes ('lazy so and so').

    What's my petty-minded agenda? I've only contributed a handful of posts, I'm not here on a mission.

    I don't see that a gap between final earned income as an earth-shattering problem. Its on you to explain why it is, and why a communistic total division of earnings is a desired outcome and how it can be achieved.

    If posters can't even begin to do that without descending into insults that's not a good start.

    Calling someone a cheap mean man reads as personal and takes from any other points you are trying to make.


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    #770
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    anewme wrote: »
    It's about choice. You should be able to choose a career

    Now we agree on something...it is completely about respecting people's choices and not trying to socially engineer through State interventions outcomes.


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    #771
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    You can always tell the one's who have been indoctrinated...they can tell you all about the gender of CEOs whom they never see or hear from, but they ignore the men picking up rubbish bins, doing road repairs, working on building sites, climbing telephone poles even though they see these guys all the time in all kinds of weather...it's only the indoor glamour roles they want equality in...

    Most of them will learn that actually very few people enjoy fulfilling jobs for their entire career, mostly people work in jobs that helps them pay the bills...and if you are in a single income home with a partner and child to feed, you will probably take as much overtime as you can get.

    Not many boys grow up dreaming of doing road repairs or climbing telephone poles or picking up rubbish bins either do they.

    You seem very threatened about even having a path where females might be able to envisage to being able to pursue many of the opportunities which are open to men. As evidence with your comments on education earlier, even the suggestion of them being able to do so is indoctrination akin to the Nazi brainwashing I think it was you implied.


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    #772
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    anewme wrote: »
    Calling someone a cheap mean man reads as personal and takes from any other points you are trying to make.

    It took it personally. I'll drop it now. I'll survive.

    Though please still hold that mass for me.


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    #773
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,692 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    growleaves wrote: »
    No, for his patronising tone and extreme characterisation of attitudes ('lazy so and so').

    What's my petty-minded agenda? I've only contributed a handful of posts, I'm not here on a mission.

    I don't see that a gap between final earned income as an earth-shattering problem. Its on you to explain why it is, and why a communistic total division of earnings is a desired outcome and how it can be achieved.

    If posters can't even begin to do that without descending into insults that's not a good start.

    You really should take some time to understand my posts, the (lazy so and so) was alluding to a scenario where someone might become outraged at the idea of having to accommodate a lady who was too lazy to do anything herself.

    I did say I expected my post to be met with outrage and you certainly proved a point in that respect.


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    #774
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    anewme wrote: »
    It's about choice. You should be able to choose a career and there should be no ceiling, once you put the work in and get the qualifications.

    If men or women want to work on the bins, then that is their own choice.

    If men or women dont want to work doing bins, that's also their choice.

    Its as easy to become a CEO as it is to become a bin-man since anyone can start an LLC and get a loan.

    But what people mean when they say they want to be CEO is that they should be appointed the head of a company somebody else started. Wealth, power and position by appointment.

    Someone who is talented in business can do a run around their former employer and be a success.


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    #775
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    growleaves wrote: »
    It took it personally. I'll drop it now. I'll survive.

    Though please still hold that mass for me.

    :pac:

    Ill light a candle!


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    #776
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I did say I expected my post to be met with outrage and you certainly proved a point in that respect.

    Lol


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    #777
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    You can always tell the one's who have been indoctrinated...they can tell you all about the gender of CEOs whom they never see or hear from, but they ignore the men picking up rubbish bins, doing road repairs, working on building sites, climbing telephone poles even though they see these guys all the time in all kinds of weather...it's only the indoor glamour roles they want equality in...

    Most of them will learn that actually very few people enjoy fulfilling jobs for their entire career, mostly people work in jobs that helps them pay the bills...and if you are in a single income home with a partner and child to feed, you will probably take as much overtime as you can get.
    There are plenty of women doing hard jobs with long hours. I'm sure working in a nursing home or childcare is tough going without great pay.

    What point are you making.


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    #778
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Not many boys grow up dreaming of doing road repairs or climbing telephone poles or picking up rubbish bins either do they.

    You seem very threatened about even having a path where females might be able to envisage to being able to pursue many of the opportunities which are open to men. As evidence with your comments on education earlier, even the suggestion of them being able to do so is indoctrination akin to the Nazi brainwashing I think it was you implied.

    I am not the one threatening mass social engineering, starting with indoctrinating children which you suggested...in some twisted attempt to facilitate a feminist ideology imposed on every one.

    Typically, you use a passive aggressive style in an attempt to undermine me, as I said earlier, feminism is everywhere these days, I am entitled as you are to my opinion...maybe it's a different opinion you feel threatened by.


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    #779
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,951 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    growleaves wrote: »
    Its as easy to become a CEO than it is to become a bin-man since anyone can start an LLC and get a loan.

    But what people mean when they say they want to be CEO is that they should be appointed the head of a company somebody else started. Wealth, power and position by appointment.

    Someone who is talented in business can do a run around their former employer and be a success.

    I think I know what a CEO is!:pac:

    Plus how they get appointed.


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    #780
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    anewme wrote: »
    I think I know what a CEO is!:pac:

    Plus how they get appointed.

    You can be CEO of my company and together we will harvest grant money from feminist foundations and split the money down the line 50/50 what do you say?


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    #781
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    joe40 wrote: »
    There are plenty of women doing hard jobs with long hours. I'm sure working in a nursing home or childcare is tough going without great pay.

    What point are you making.

    I didn't think I'd have to explain this one....as a person drives around on their daily business, they can see with their own eyes who does the tough, outdoor, physical labour day in day out working often in miserable weather...when do we see or hear from CEOs in our day to day life?


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