Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

Skippyme

Of course they can, women have got the vote & racism is no longer a societal expectation.

Masculinity can stop exerting limits and limitations on men as previously outlined & spoken about as referred to in https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058042337

Monorail32 wrote: »

Masculinity and femininity can't be broadened. They are innate instinctual ways of being.

Skippyme wrote: »

The boys will be boys approach is what leads to the cult style following that Toxic Masculinity has harboured for so long.
You only have to see what Piers & Trump have got away with...

Do you know what ... people don't enjoy being abused whether they are weak men according to some* or feminine as you've decided it to be.

Masculinity does not need constant man box rules.




Women & different ethnicities never enjoyed being mocked or kept in their place...

Your reply more than infers that it is okay to belittle, shun or psychologically encourage more healthy old style macho narrative.

If women had given up on men & the sexism was accepted long ago & forevermore then women would still be back where they were.

...

As for you being happy winning friends & discouraging the spread of my new age masculinity because of what worked for generations of men - it didn't.

It restricted men, yes you grew into it & got comfy knowing your role & certain of your trajectory in life but at some unknown as well as expected costs to yourself. But you're chill with it all.

It affects others though including other men...

men are suffering due to shackles of psychological, mental, emotional / physical abuse from men.

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I'm not sure of the relevance of Trump, but ignoring that how and why does masculinity need to be broadened?

Do you personally find it difficult to relate to men and form friendships? How about with women?

This may be a genuine comment in terms of profiling etc. but it is something men attempt to fall back on, just to shirk the topic of men moving forward.
I have previously addressed the manner in which men deflect responsibility.
I don't have an issue with women myself, & women are not infallible.
Some men rely on women as an excuse to act out old fashioned sexism against other men & women.

Skippyme wrote: »

The other thread I had started & debated specifically & expansively was about men harming men, yet men were keen to blame women for the way men treat guys. They kept deflecting it onto women - mothers & partners & in particular & how women need them strong.

They did not want to improve mankind - just bash the topic

TomTomTim wrote: »

You don't want to broaden it though, you want it to mirror femininity more. Society can't function with such an imbalance, traditional masculinity and femininity are like ying and yang, they need to exist along side each other to balance each other out. Our biology isn't a fluke, it has societal purpose.

Not everything is innate & unchangeable otherwise we would all live in caves, constantly attack other weaker tribes, rape & plunder. Like I said earlier there was also a time that rape was not given credence once they were married.

Men that are emotional or supportive are not weak or even feminine.

Men are capable of more that's the point - they can expand themselves & not be limited by masculinity man box rules in order to be a man.

Are women fire fighters just becoming men ?!

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

You are clever enough to spot one shower at it but you have no awareness that you have succumbed to the very same....you are being just as manipulated as every one else...it's why media is in the gutter.

I've never formed an opinion based on a newspaper or tv headline, or a singular voice.

I also note the overwhelming consistency with how women respond to specific issues and concerns whenever I speak with them about things like this enough for it to tell me they can't all be making it up.

Skippyme

I can tell you from personal experience that young men are still quite demeaning of other men wishing to talk or express themselves openly or emotionally.

They can be severely slanted towards the old extremes in order to fit in themselves.

They use whatever they perceive as weakness as a means to use against their fellow man to big themselves up - even with friends.

They genuinely think as a man you either measure up, or you don't reach the same league as them. They want to be top dog at all costs.

joe40 wrote: »

I'm not really sure that is true in the real world...

I accept toxic masculinity is a thing. I know some jump down your throat at the mention of this phrase saying it is an insult to men. That misses the point.

At the same time your assertion that "toxic masculinity" is still a major problem in everyday society is false in my view.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

I've never formed an opinion based on a newspaper or tv headline, or a singular voice.

.

But you think everyone else who doesn't agree with you has?

You think you are the only one to make an informed opinion on what those around them experience...

You really do have an inflated sense of ego I'll give you that...

Dyr

Tell me how wrote: »

You failed to understand that the answer showed that it wasn't a straight forward question.

Nice interjection there of 'the Irish state' in to what do modern Irish feminists want?

I suspect not a huge amount directly at this point. What is your view, what largely supported list of demands are you aware of that have been asked for?

Trying to help you focus a bit rather than have you go off on a tagent about far flung and exotic places where women are treated like cattle by cultures that are every bit as valid as our own, or so I'm told

Should be an easy enough question to answer, feminists of times past would have had a list of things they wanted.


I mean if there is no list, then surely it's job done and back to the club house for a celebratory shandy rather than live in a perpetual state of percieved oppression

TomTomTim

Skippyme wrote: »

I can tell you from personal experience that young men are still quite demeaning of other men wishing to talk or express themselves openly or emotionally.

They can be severely slanted towards the old extremes in order to fit in themselves.

They use whatever they perceive as weakness as a means to use against their fellow man to big themselves up - even with friends.

They genuinely think as a man you either measure up, or you don't reach the same league as them. They want to be top dog at all costs.

You clearly have a deeply tainted view of the male experience. The type of men you describe would not be liked or tolerated by most men in my experience. A strong masculine man is not a bully; bullies are usually insecure men who are desperate to prove themselves. I'm starting to think the previous poster was correct, you were bullied by the stereotype you described. I think that's horrible, honestly, as it's clearly damaged your view of male behavior.

Tell me how

Bambi wrote: »

Trying to help you focus a bit rather than have you go off on a tagent about far flung and exotic places where women are treated like cattle by cultures that are every bit as valid as our own, or so I'm told

Should be an easy enough question to answer, feminists of times past would have had a list of things they wanted.


I mean if there is no list, then surely it's job done and back to the club house for a celebratory shandy rather than live in a perpetual state of percieved oppression

Again, this is mostly a state of mind imagined in the heads of you and others against any women advocacy Bambi.

joe40

Skippyme wrote: »

I can tell you from personal experience that young men are still quite demeaning of other men wishing to talk or express themselves openly or emotionally.

They can be severely slanted towards the old extremes in order to fit in themselves.

They use whatever they perceive as weakness as a means to use against their fellow man to big themselves up - even with friends.

They genuinely think as a man you either measure up, or you don't reach the same league as them. They want to be top dog at all costs.

If that is your experience I sympathise, but it would not be mine. Don't get me wrong I have come across plenty of dickheads in my day but I would not find them to be the norm.

Do you mind me asking what do you work at or what are your hobbies? What type of people do you interact with on a daily basis?

Please don't take the wrong way but to be honest I find your posts worrying, I would like to help or give advice but I'm not sure how. You seem genuinely affected by this. Everyone needs to be able to talk honestly with friends and peers.

This is not meant to be flippant but I think you should try to make new friends, the people you are interacting with are not healthy for you

Silentcorner

Bambi wrote: »

Trying to help you focus a bit rather than have you go off on a tagent about far flung and exotic places where women are treated like cattle by cultures that are every bit as valid as our own, or so I'm told

Should be an easy enough question to answer, feminists of times past would have had a list of things they wanted.


I mean if there is no list, then surely it's job done and back to the club house for a celebratory shandy rather than live in a perpetual state of percieved oppression

As far as the State goes, women enjoy an education system that suits their ability to learn affording them higher grades and educational options, as far as health provision goes, women receive much more support from the Sate, health and education are pivotal in a persons life.

Outside of that women's advocate groups receive way more funding to lobby those in power to suit their means....we see that in the provision of services to victims of domestic abuse.

It could be argued that feminists are now abusing those rights..men are now being discriminated against in politics, work and beyond.

Dyr

Tell me how wrote: »

Again, this is mostly a state of mind imagined in the heads of you and others against any women advocacy Bambi.

Rather than being defensive and scorpy, why not think about the things you're advocating for Mná na hÉireann and then post it as a list?

Imagine An Taoiseach has invited you into his office and wants to know what it is that modern feminism requires of him so he can crack on. Are you going to just fold your arms and make catty remarks?

Samsonsmasher

TomTomTim wrote: »

You clearly have a deeply tainted view of the male experience. The type of men you describe would not be liked or tolerated by most men in my experience. A strong masculine man is not a bully; bullies are usually insecure men who are desperate to prove themselves. I'm starting to think the previous poster was correct, you were bullied by the stereotype you described. I think that's horrible, honestly, as it's clearly damaged your view of male behavior.

Men value a man who says little but is not shy about saying what needs to be said in a few words. A man who talks less knuckles down does his work competently amd doesn't complain too much or boast can laugh and joke but never sneer and never betray a secret.
He'll back you up and you can trust him in a tight spot.
Nobody likes a coward or a bully.
A real man turns up for work on time likes whiskey pints steak medium rare loves dogs loves kids and is prepared to protect women and children from danger.

anewme

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not just boards, the Daily Mail knew exactly what they were doing with that article.
It's a common tactic, same with BLM, one activist says that massive money is owed for reparations, all supporters for the right for Black people to be treated equally by police are dismissed with the accusation that they just want black people to get paid.
A climate activist talks about the need to overcome reliance on oil, it is portrayed as them suggesting that all combustible engines should be switched off today and never started.
A woman says we should be seeing a more representative spread of people in elected parliament positions and it is suggested that anyone who agrees with her wants gender quotas.

The extreme becomes the story and the logical considerations are lost in the outrage. You are right, it does happen on Boards, as I've said, most progressive topics which get threads here are started by people who are against their premise.

Their own Ego allows them comfort in that they believe only a small number of people can spot what they are at, but more do than they realise.

Hiding in plain sight almost.

joe40

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Men value a man who says little but is not shy about saying what needs to be said in a few words. A man who talks less knuckles down does his work competently amd doesn't complain too much or boast can laugh and joke but never sneer and never betray a secret.
He'll back you up and you can trust him in a tight spot.
Nobody likes a coward or a bully.
A real man turns up for work on time likes whiskey pints steak medium rare loves dogs loves kids and is prepared to protect women and children from danger.

"Medium rare" what kind of sissy are you...

Tell me how

Bambi wrote: »

Rather than being defensive and scorpy, why not think about the things you're advocating for Mná na hÉireann and then post it as a list?

Imagine An Taoiseach has invited you into his office and wants to know what it is that modern feminism requires of him so he can crack on. Are you going to just fold your arms and make catty remarks?

(WTF is scorpy?)

Who said anything about the Taoiseach? What would I want to talk to him for?
Your demands for a list show how out of kilter you are with what is the broad discussion.

If I had to talk to the Taoiseach, I would ask him does he have any idea on how to convince conservatives to listen to what women are saying rather than just reacting and telling them it is part of some victimhood or a credo they apparently have signed up to.

TomTomTim

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Men value a man who says little but is not shy about saying what needs to be said in a few words. A man who talks less knuckles down does his work competently amd doesn't complain too much or boast can laugh and joke but never sneer and never betray a secret.
He'll back you up and you can trust him in a tight spot.
Nobody likes a coward or a bully.
A real man turns up for work on time likes whiskey pints steak medium rare loves dogs loves kids and is prepared to protect women and children from danger.

You've done a better job than I ever could of summarizing it.

Tell me how

anewme wrote: »

Their own Ego allows them comfort in that they believe only a small number of people can spot what they are at, but more do than they realise.

Hiding in plain sight almost.

Not enough maybe. Brexit/Trump both came about due to significant narratives been spun by media with skin in the game.

Maybe people are catching on to what the game was. Link

The executive director of the Society of Editors has resigned after a rolling series of withdrawals from the National Press Awards over claims that there is no racism in the press made his position untenable.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

(WTF is scorpy?)

Who said anything about the Taoiseach? What would I want to talk to him for?
Your demands for a list show how out of kilter you are with what is the broad discussion.

If I had to talk to the Taoiseach, I would ask him does he have any idea on how to convince conservatives to listen to what women are saying rather than just reacting and telling them it is part of some victimhood or a credo they apparently have signed up to.

Convince conservatives? Are you including conservative women?

Should they tackle their "unconscious biases" or re educate themsleves, or convert if you will...

Weren't you the same poster who believes in the importance of indoctrinating kids....

There is a very sinister undertone to anyone who thinks it is ok to control those that don't agree with them...this is why I have disdain for radicals, be they conservative or feminist or whatever.

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Convince conservatives? Are you including conservative women?

Should they tackle their "unconscious biases" or re educate themsleves, or convert if you will...

Weren't you the same poster who believes in the importance of indoctrinating kids....

There is a very sinister undertone to anyone who thinks it is ok to control those that don't agree with them...this is why I have disdain for radicals, be they conservative or feminist or whatever.

lol. I believe in informing children of the opportunities which are open to them.

You referred that to indoctrination and suggested it was akin to what the Nazi's were doing.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

lol. I believe in informing children of the opportunities which are open to them.

You referred that to indoctrination and suggested it was akin to what the Nazi's were doing.

Telling children that women get paid less for doing the same work as men is not only dishonest, it is indoctrinating them into feminist ideology.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

lol. I believe in informing children of the opportunities which are open to them.

You referred that to indoctrination and suggested it was akin to what the Nazi's were doing.

Should we be telling our boys that they will be stopped from certain roles in politics and the workplace because of their gender...

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Telling children that women get paid less for doing the same work as men is not only dishonest, it is indoctrinating them into feminist ideology.

Again, this is your assumption of what was being said.

Ye guys do that a lot, state that something is being argued, or said, and then if it is picked up on, others repeat that statement as if it is a fact.

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Should we be telling our boys that they will be stopped from certain roles in politics and the workplace because of their gender...

No. Why do you think that that will be the case?

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

Again, this is your assumption of what was being said.

Ye guys do that a lot, state that something is being argued, or said, and then if it is picked up on, others repeat that statement as if it is a fact.

Hang on now...you are lying through your teeth.

The poster mentioned that his kids were exposed to the misrepresentation of the gender pay gap on the RTE hub...he was very explicit in his account.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

No. Why do you think that that will be the case?

Because that is what is happening...

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/616340/limerick-sinn-fein-member-cant-run-in-next-general-election-because-of-my-gender.html

A "female only constituency"...SF, one of the largest political parties on this island.

CtevenSrowder

anewme wrote: »

That's probably my biggest issue with Boards to be honest.

I thought you knew nothing of modern feminism?

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Because that is what is happening...

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/616340/limerick-sinn-fein-member-cant-run-in-next-general-election-because-of-my-gender.html

A "female only constituency"...SF, one of the largest political parties on this island.

Forgive me for waiting to see just what exactly the truth is behind this story. It is a frequent occurrence every election cycle that some people fail to get a nomination within their party to run on a party ballot. Maybe he just wasn't selected and is saying that it was because of a gender.

silverharp

Silentcorner wrote: »

Should we be telling our boys that they will be stopped from certain roles in politics and the workplace because of their gender...

i would mention in passing to my son to stay away government jobs, working in education, focus on hard science/maths for college, be quota proof

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

(WTF is scorpy?)

Who said anything about the Taoiseach? What would I want to talk to him for?
Your demands for a list show how out of kilter you are with what is the broad discussion.

If I had to talk to the Taoiseach, I would ask him does he have any idea on how to convince conservatives to listen to what women are saying rather than just reacting and telling them it is part of some victimhood or a credo they apparently have signed up to.

What makes you state 'conservatives' aren't listening to women? Some women are 'conservatives'. Do you ever talk to these women, or do you prefer a 'liberal' echo chamber?

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

Forgive me for waiting to see just what exactly the truth is behind this story. It is a frequent occurrence every election cycle that some people fail to get a nomination within their party to run on a party ballot. Maybe he just wasn't selected and is saying that it was because of a gender.

So do you think it is ok to discriminate on the basis of gender in political parties or politically appointed positions?

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Not enough maybe. Brexit/Trump both came about due to significant narratives been spun by media with skin in the game.

Maybe people are catching on to what the game was. Link

Did same sex marriage and abortion rights come about 'due to significant narratives been spun by media with skin in the game'?