Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

Wibbs

Skippyme wrote: »

T
Men know there is something rotten especially once they passed school going age.
Older men know if someone will only fight them with considered words that eventually they are left to try to enrage & provoke, if that does not work they will try like Piers / Trump to cancel you.

You do understand that you keep reinforcing my original point with every reference you make to it?

My point. Earlier. wrote: »

It was responses like this that had you dismissed on that other thread you speak of. You come from one entrenched position, raise points based on that, when those points are questioned you pretty much ignore them, or attempt to twist them to your purpose and plough on from your original entrenched position. It's perfectly evident to anyone reading whether they agree with your worldview or not that you're not open to any other position and that you're not for turning.

Add in the avoidance of points raised and it becomes frustrating and ultimately pointless to engage and then as night follows day that's construed as "aggressive" by the entrenched worldview holder and they usually leave thinking they've scored some victory. Entrenched worldview intact.

It's extremely common a tactic and can be seen across a range of subjects, but it does seem to be on the increase.

And now you're shouting in bold text to hammer it home.

Dyr

Silentcorner wrote: »

It would seem a combination of mass social engineering and systematic discrimination on the basis of gender...

Well it seems that way, don't think thats good for society.

FunLover18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness? Seriously? I don't see much fairness being applied in your post.

The focus is already on men to police themselves, and men, as a gender, are being held accountable for what some men do. Which can be seen in the vast difference (between the genders) in sentencing outcomes for similar crimes in the courts, or the long-standing dismissive attitude when it comes to female led domestic abuse towards men.

It is interesting though. Suggest that women should look after their own safety, and it's deflected back to talking about men.. even though, the focus is already on men in regards to all of these issues. This thread for the last two pages is a perfect example of this...

Not that I'm surprised, but I felt the posts I answered (with my original post) deserved a response. I'll be unfollowing this thread, because I think we've reached the point of circular arguments, and the glossing over of points, to repeat mantra's.

I know they're not going to see this but I would like to point out that I think it's perfectly fair to address the the attitudes and behaviours of men towards women when discussing sexual crimes against women, the only real deflection is the attempt to suggest how women should look after their own safety.

Wibbs

FunLover18 wrote: »

I know they're not going to see this but I would like to point out that I think it's perfectly fair to address the the attitudes and behaviours of men towards women when discussing sexual crimes against women

Indeed, but male sexual predators are not exactly flavour of the month with men. In prisons they have to be kept separate from the population because they'll almost certainly be targetted for serious assault or death if they're not. They're regularly assaulted and killed even with precautions. And that's among men who are already seen as beyond the bounds of "decent society".

Silentcorner

FunLover18 wrote: »

I know they're not going to see this but I would like to point out that I think it's perfectly fair to address the the attitudes and behaviours of men towards women when discussing sexual crimes against women, the only real deflection is the attempt to suggest how women should look after their own safety.

Like everything else that a society should challenge it is balance that should remain the most important component.

Luckily I don't know of any woman in my life who is afraid to walk the streets but I understand how intimidating the streets can be for some...and I understand how little control women have of a situation that might arise.

But the issues that arose this week were way out of balance with the coverage for instance of the grooming gangs in the UK.

Too often the issue is actually a class issue and not a gendered issue....I can't imagine a woman walking around the salubrious estates in the UK feeling any where near the danger a woman (or man) feels elsewhere.

But emotive topics are now being discussed in a kind of hysterical mode that isn't good for anyone.

osarusan

Silentcorner wrote: »

But emotive topics are now being discussed in a kind of hysterical mode that isn't good for anyone.

Says the poster who dragged the Nazis into the thread ffs.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Ha ha haa...you sound like a Bishop, they thought he was merely saving the souls of the children too!!!!

The Nazis used to indoctrinate their kids too didn't they!!!

That's as hysterical as anything else on this thread.

Silentcorner

osarusan wrote: »

Says the poster who dragged the Nazis into the thread ffs.



That's as hysterical as anything else on this thread.

It is hysterical to suggest that Bishops and Nazi's both liked to indoctrinate kids?

Tell me how

Posters here have demanded to know what it is that Irish feminists want from the Irish government. I already said that that was a misleading question because there isn't a massive call from people for anything which might be deemed a feminist issue from the government and that in any case, it's a fallacy because it suggests it is only when people want something from the government that they are justified in trying to make things better or calling for improvements.

The latest 'non-woke' mouthpiece has conveniently demonstrated exactly what an example of this is. Link (Bold my emphasis)

Mr Carlson, who hosts the conservative network's highest rated programme, used part of his show to deride military "maternity flight suits" and recent updates to Army and Air Force hair regulations.

"Pregnant women are going to fight our wars," he said. "It's a mockery of the US military."

"While China's military becomes more masculine as it's assembled the world's largest navy, our military, as Joe Biden says, needs to become more feminine," Mr Carlson opined.

Several high ranking military officials responded to Carlson and set him straight about the significant number and value of women in the US military.
Carlson knows his audience and that many watching would be more than willing to pick up what he is putting down. But there is no doubt that the military women of which there are about 200k of them would like if they didn't have to listen to someone with such a platform demean them in this way. Does that make them radical indoctrinated victims?

Leg End Reject

Tell me how wrote: »

Posters here have demanded to know what it is that Irish feminists want from the Irish government. I already said that that was a misleading question because there isn't a massive call from people for anything which might be deemed a feminist issue from the government and that in any case, it's a fallacy because it suggests it is only when people want something from the government that they are justified in trying to make things better or calling for improvements.

The latest 'non-woke' mouthpiece has conveniently demonstrated exactly what an example of this is. Link (Bold my emphasis)



Several high ranking military officials responded to Carlson and set him straight about the significant number and value of women in the US military.
Carlson knows his audience and that many watching would be more than willing to pick up what he is putting down. But there is no doubt that the military women of which there are about 200k of them would like if they didn't have to listen to someone with such a platform demean them in this way. Does that make them radical indoctrinated victims?

Do you honestly think any of that has any relevance to the lives of women outside military circles?

Be honest now.

Silentcorner

Tell me how wrote: »

Posters here have demanded to know what it is that Irish feminists want from the Irish government. I already said that that was a misleading question because there isn't a massive call from people for anything which might be deemed a feminist issue from the government and that in any case, it's a fallacy because it suggests it is only when people want something from the government that they are justified in trying to make things better or calling for improvements.

The latest 'non-woke' mouthpiece has conveniently demonstrated exactly what an example of this is. Link (Bold my emphasis)



Several high ranking military officials responded to Carlson and set him straight about the significant number and value of women in the US military.
Carlson knows his audience and that many watching would be more than willing to pick up what he is putting down. But there is no doubt that the military women of which there are about 200k of them would like if they didn't have to listen to someone with such a platform demean them in this way. Does that make them radical indoctrinated victims?

Can you stop dragging US politics into this please....what in Gods name does American TV have to do with this thread?

All Irish political Parties signed up to the Feminist Manifesto in the 2020 Election....which includes -

Change Ireland’s record on Violence Against Women (which discriminates against male victims of Domestic Abuse)

Fully implement the Istanbul Convention
Establish domestic homicide reviews
Resource frontline services and refuge spaces.

Advance Women’s Leadership

Introduce gender quotas in local elections - (there is already gender quotas so this requires there to be actual female seats on Local Councils)
Create a woman-friendly Oireachtas
Legislate for a 40% quota for women on corporate boards
Increase funding for the women’s sector. (which already vastly out numbers any funding for male issues)

Prioritise Women’s Health (which is already prioritised by a considerable amount)

Deliver Sláinte Care
Develop women centred mental health services
Fully resource publicly owned maternity and infant services

Our NGO sector is absolutely massive, I'll bet there isn't more than a handful that might be considered to be focused on any male issues at all...

Tell me how

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Do you honestly think any of that has any relevance to the lives of women outside military circles?

Be honest now.

Most definitely. Aside from Anericans love for the military, why wouldn't women be interested in a story when such a large number if them are summarily dismissed.

I mean, the BBC reported in it.its far from a niche interest story.

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can you stop dragging US politics into this please....what in Gods name does American TV have to do with this thread?

All Irish political Parties signed up to the Feminist Manifesto in the 2020 Election....which includes -

Change Ireland’s record on Violence Against Women (which discriminates against male victims of Domestic Abuse)

Fully implement the Istanbul Convention
Establish domestic homicide reviews
Resource frontline services and refuge spaces.

Advance Women’s Leadership

Introduce gender quotas in local elections - (there is already gender quotas so this requires there to be actual female seats on Local Councils)
Create a woman-friendly Oireachtas
Legislate for a 40% quota for women on corporate boards
Increase funding for the women’s sector. (which already vastly out numbers any funding for male issues)

Prioritise Women’s Health (which is already prioritised by a considerable amount)

Deliver Sláinte Care
Develop women centred mental health services
Fully resource publicly owned maternity and infant services

Our NGO sector is absolutely massive, I'll bet there isn't more than a handful that might be considered to be focused on any male issues at all...

Well, if the Nazi's warrant a mention, hard to see why this example is inappropriate.

The rest of your post all looks like reasonable initiatives, of course, delivering on political promises isnt always straightforward is it.

If you claim to be a feminist and advocate for special rights for women, transgender athletes to compete in female sports, gender quotas, positive discrimination or anything along those lines, you aren't a feminist.

Leg End Reject

Tell me how wrote: »

Most definitely. Aside from Anericans love for the military, why wouldn't women be interested in a story when such a large number if them are summarily dismissed.

I mean, the BBC reported in it.its far from a niche interest story.

Why would any woman here be interested in a "God bless" American military man defending their right to be in the American military and take maternity leave?

Seriously?

Tell me how

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Why would any woman here be interested in a "God bless" American military man defending their right to be in the American military and take maternity leave?

Seriously?

It's so obvious I won't even explain but you go ahead and refuse to consider it by all means.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

If you claim to be a feminist and advocate for special rights for women, transgender athletes to compete in female sports, gender quotas, positive discrimination or anything along those lines, you aren't a feminist.

Okay then.

What are you when only start talking about the importance if there being no discrimination when people suggest gender quotas in one facet of society?

Leg End Reject

Tell me how wrote: »

It's so obvious I won't even explain but you go ahead and refuse to consider it by all means.

Are you American?

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Okay then.

What are you when only start talking about the importance if there being no discrimination when people suggest gender quotas in one facet of society?

Sorry. I only speak English.

Tell me how

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Are you American?

No.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry. I only speak English.

Tá brón orm.

stefanovich

Silentcorner wrote: »

Because that is what is happening...

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/616340/limerick-sinn-fein-member-cant-run-in-next-general-election-because-of-my-gender.html

A "female only constituency"...SF, one of the largest political parties on this island.

And they don’t even have a candidate yet!

CtevenSrowder

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, if the Nazi's warrant a mention, hard to see why this example is inappropriate.

The rest of your post all looks like reasonable initiatives, of course, delivering on political promises isnt always straightforward is it.

So you fully support discrimination then, as long as you can spin it as the 'positive' kind?

CtevenSrowder

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Are you American?

He lives in America and has gotten caught up in the whole identity politics mess that exists there.

He was complaining earlier about the Daily Mail using an extreme example to portray feminists in a negative way, but of course using Tucker Carlson to portray those that have issues with modern feminism in a negative way is perfectly OK. Yes it's a double standard, and it'll be explained away or ignored (a bit like how your question of relevance was ignored in favor of 'oh its so obvious'). I neither see the relevance of auld Tucker to this thread.

joe40

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can you stop dragging US politics into this please....what in Gods name does American TV have to do with this thread?

All Irish political Parties signed up to the Feminist Manifesto in the 2020 Election....which includes -

Change Ireland’s record on Violence Against Women (which discriminates against male victims of Domestic Abuse)

Fully implement the Istanbul Convention
Establish domestic homicide reviews
Resource frontline services and refuge spaces.

Advance Women’s Leadership

Introduce gender quotas in local elections - (there is already gender quotas so this requires there to be actual female seats on Local Councils)
Create a woman-friendly Oireachtas
Legislate for a 40% quota for women on corporate boards
Increase funding for the women’s sector. (which already vastly out numbers any funding for male issues)

Prioritise Women’s Health (which is already prioritised by a considerable amount)

Deliver Sláinte Care
Develop women centred mental health services
Fully resource publicly owned maternity and infant services

Our NGO sector is absolutely massive, I'll bet there isn't more than a handful that might be considered to be focused on any male issues at all...

"All the political parties" therefore that largely represents the wishes of the majority of the electorate.
Political parties are fairly in tune with public opinion.
Signing up to something is not the same as delivering, so we'll wait and see.

I don't have a problem with that list and it would appear neither do a majority of our country, male or female.

Silentcorner

joe40 wrote: »

"All the political parties" therefore that largely represents the wishes of the majority of the electorate.
Political parties are fairly in tune with public opinion.
Signing up to something is not the same as delivering, so we'll wait and see.

I don't have a problem with that list and it would appear neither do a majority of our country, male or female.

The last election was a disaster for all but one party....a disaster!!!!

Did you see what happened to all the "empowered ones"?

Look at our closest neighbours, how are the Labour Party and the Lib Dems getting on with their gender quotas? They will both be out of power for a long time to come!!! They both made the mistake of thinking they electorate were buying into all this gender division nonsense.

JJayoo

Modern feminism seems to be = I only care about what impacts me directly. When you see the sh1t that happens around the world and not a peep out of feminist groups it shows how 'localised' their feminism is

anewme

JJayoo wrote: »

Modern feminism seems to be = I only care about what impacts me directly. When you see the sh1t that happens around the world and not a peep out of feminist groups it shows how 'localised' their feminism is

Ahh, I was wondering when someone would post the ever elusive "creedo".

Where did you manage to track it down?

Now, would that be the long version or the short version?

:pac:

CtevenSrowder

anewme wrote: »

Ahh, I was wondering when someone would post the ever elusive "creedo".

Where did you manage to track it down?

Now, would that be the long version or the short version?

:pac:

How do you know it's not the creedo? You explicitly stated you know nothing about modern feminism?

Silentcorner

anewme wrote: »

Ahh, I was wondering when someone would post the ever elusive "creedo".

Where did you manage to track it down?

Now, would that be the long version or the short version?

:pac:

Do you support the discrimination of men in politics or the workplace?

anewme

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

How do you know it's not the creedo? You explicitly stated you know nothing about modern feminism?

Surely something that warrants so much discussion is not 8 words?

Seriously now.

With all the references to creedo etc, why did someone not post it earlier, if that's all it is.

I expected a document similar to the a Company Constitution with clauses etc.

That's a bit of an insult to peoples intelligence, if that is really it.