Semi Auto Rifles contd

otmmyboy2

smmember20 wrote: »

I see from your post it is easy to be cynical and easy to stand back and make statements just like the above statement, forgive me but I have never seen your goodself step forward to work on any association that represents shooting interests.

Would the below not qualify?
Literally part of what you quoted in your reply.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I had to go and meet personally as the PRO of Firearms United Network Ireland with the DOJ on Dec1st 2109 to get some clarity on this issue.

Or are we talking physically seeing in person?

smmember20

otmmyboy2 wrote: »

Would the below not qualify?
Literally part of what you quoted in your reply.



Or are we talking physically seeing in person?

Firearms United Network Ireland

So what did they publish after the meeting, if the PRO is all knowing then why am I being quizzed.

Can I ask where are they now and who actually is a member?

Sorry it is easy to generate a name and a function but sustaining same is a real job!

Cass

smmember20 wrote: »

The evolution of this thread astounds me I simply added my positive experience related to an achievement by a consolidated effort of a number of associations...

Nope. You first appeared in a nearly 4 year old thread signing the praises of a group that has submitted secret proposals to have rimfire pistols further restricted, ban semi auto rifles and attack other aspects of shooting sports all on their own volition with no consultation or notification to the other shooting groups.

........ to clarify the legal postion around substitutions which was done.........

Nope.

You have called it everything from advice to a statement to authorisation and when asked the most basic of questions surrounding actual legal status your reply is "find out yourself".

...... and there is detailled enquiry by folks who don't even have a CF pistol........... I despair!

That is an argument from authority as though those without a C/F pistol are somehow not entitled to have an opinion or input. I have a C/F pistol and you have repeatedly refused to answer my question simply telling me to find out myself. Same for others.

So other than a self gratifying pat on the pat you have achieved absolutely nothing and then claim to "despair" when people don't kneel and flagellate themselves before the altar of the SC, as you seemingly have done?

otmmyboy2

smmember20 wrote: »

Firearms United Network Ireland

So what did they publish after the meeting, if the PRO is all knowing then why am I being quizzed.

Can I ask where are they now and who actually is a member?

Sorry it is easy to generate a name and a function but sustaining same is a real job!

I read it at the time, was a hell of a lot more than I ever heard from any other shooting org in Ireland about the SI:
https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedIreland/posts/3775958839153804

Not affiliated but FUNI is the Ireland branch of https://firearms-united.com/

Worldwide pro-firearms advocacy group, particularly active in Europe.

smmember20

Cass wrote: »

Nope. You first appeared in a nearly 4 year old thread signing the praises of a group that has submitted secret proposals to have rimfire pistols further restricted, ban semi auto rifles and attack other aspects of shooting sports all on their own volition with no consultation or notification to the other shooting groups.

Nope.

You have called it everything from advice to a statement to authorisation and when asked the most basic of questions surrounding actual legal status your reply is "find out yourself".


That is an argument from authority as though those without a C/F pistol are somehow not entitled to have an opinion or input. I have a C/F pistol and you have repeatedly refused to answer my question simply telling me to find out myself. Same for others.

So other than a self gratifying pat on the pat you have achieved absolutely nothing and then claim to "despair" when people don't kneel and flagellate themselves before the altar of the SC, as you seemingly have done?

wow I stand totally slapped down, I simply applied what was in the public domaine and substituted my CF, sorry if I ahve not been all enlightening to detail that is aleady published!

yubabill

BattleCorp wrote: »

I did a little bit of digging.

I haven't seen the exact document(s) but apparently there was communication from the DOJ some time in 2017 regarding the substitution of centrefire pistols.

It begins roughly like this........and I acknowledge that I may not have it verbatim but............'Although a contrary argument can be made, our legal advice is that, on balance, a Court is likely to find that section bla bla bla of bla bla bla doesn't act as a bar to substituting restricted short firearm under section bla bla bla.

There's a few things there that scare me.

1. It's based on legal advice that the DOJ got. Legal advice isn't always correct. See recent case with Revenue on the importation of a stock and parts.

2. The DOJ admit that a contrary argument can be made. Again, not something you want to see happen before a judge.

3. 'on balance' are words that you don't really want to see in legal advice as it means that things aren't 100% black and white. So it's a gamble with the odds in your favour, but a gamble nonetheless.

There's another worrying part of that same DOJ communication.

It says that you may be able to substitute your pistol and get licenced on another pistol but once the licence on your substitute pistol expires, it can't be renewed as it wasn't licenced before November 2008.

So what are the options then?........substitute it back for your original pistol before it expires and hope the Gardai process that substitution in a timely fashion? Or do you let it expire and put it in storage with a gun dealer while you apply for a new licence on your old pistol?

It's messy at best, and not legal at worst.

The answer is in the form of a question - is the new 3-year licence a renewal or is it a re-application?

A renewal means the licence is ongoing......I tend to think they changed the system to a formal re-application every 3 years.

yubabill

Speaking of semi autos, Martin Callinan the former AGS Commissioner has been investigated regarding a smear campaign against Maurice McCabe and a file is going to the DPP.

The investigating tribunal rejected his denial of knowledge of the campaign.

You might remember all the stories in red top media here about gun crime, firearm theft and other stories painting us in a bad light just prior to AGS seeking a ban on CF semi autos.

I submitted to the dail committee that AGS were forbidden to advocate for legislation, which was studiously ignored.

Don't know who was behind the red top shooting stories, btw, but they were full of new AGS statistics at the time and the perspectives were fairly slanted against us.

smmember20

Cass wrote: »

Nope. You first appeared in a nearly 4 year old thread signing the praises of a group that has submitted secret proposals to have rimfire pistols further restricted, ban semi auto rifles and attack other aspects of shooting sports all on their own volition with no consultation or notification to the other shooting groups.

It is strange how you can make appaently factual statements with no basis in fact, the significant issue about the potential to ban S/A rifles arose out of significant pressure brought to bear by AGS in which they sought a ban on S/A rifles, I know it to be a fact that the SC along with its associated groups arranged a show and tell at Harbour House in which there was a demonstration at that range of all of the sporting firearms used, to the then Minister FF and her officials.
Prior to the visit to HH the Minister & Justice officials visited Garda HQ where they were shown the blackest S/A with so many accesories that the DOJ officials couldn't pick it up.
At the round table discussion in HH at which I can tell you I was present, the Minister indicated some concern about S/A rifles due to the negative publicity that they had attracted and she stated at that meeting that there may be a consideration to cap S/A rifles if in their view there was an excessive ploferation of them, this was also stated realted to .22 pistols by the Minsiter.
Fact: There were no proposals by SC or its affilaited organsiations of which all major shooting organisations were members at that time to ban S/A rifles, it came from AGS and articulated by DOJ, it was a cap not a ban, and indeed it has never come to pass!
Further restrications on rimfire pistols, I can assure you the SC prevented a total ban on .22 pistols, take that any way you want!
And as for attacks on shooting sports remember SC was a group of affiliated shooting associations, nothing was done on their own volition but in concensus.
You may wish to try to rewrite the past but we are where we are
No S/A rifle Bans
.22 Pistols licenced when members of a recognised club
Can't see any attacks on other aspects of shooting sport evident.
No doubt my response will attacks a hail of abuse!

Cass

smmember20 wrote: »

It is strange how you can make appaently factual statements with no basis in fact,

Which ones are fiction?

the significant issue about the potential to ban S/A rifles arose out of significant pressure brought to bear by AGS in which they sought a ban on S/A rifles,

As i said earlier in this thread, post #27, the so called sports coalition sent in a secret proposal saying they would seek a cap on the licensing of all semi auto centrefires except for those pre-1950. I even posted a link to the sports coalition's website where they say it:

Cass wrote:

I am not advocating for the limitation or "capping" of licenses (that was the sports coalitions doing).

The so called sports coalition also called for banning of currently licenseable 22lr pistols that did not meet thei new criteria. Again from their own website:

In relation to the .22 handguns which are currently licensed, this matter must be resolved by a new S.I. before the 2015 renewal date. The terms of resolution could restrict the licensing of such firearms to .22 calibre short firearms suitable for competition under ISSF rules (which include Olympic competitions), but with a barrel length of NOT LESS than 5 inches, and NOT LONGER than 30cm and with a magazine capacity NOT EXCEEDING 10 rounds.

At the round table discussion in HH at which I can tell you I was present, the Minister indicated some concern about S/A rifles due to the negative publicity that they had attracted and she stated at that meeting that there may be a consideration to cap S/A rifles if in their view there was an excessive ploferation of them, this was also stated realted to .22 pistols by the Minsiter.

Fact: There were no proposals by SC or its affilaited organsiations of which all major shooting organisations were members at that time to ban S/A rifles, it came from AGS and articulated by DOJ, it was a cap not a ban, and indeed it has never come to pass!

Yes there was. Its on their website. I linked to it earlier in this thread and just above.

Also i don't know who is feeding you information but tell them to fact check. You say all major shooting bodies were affiliated members, no they were not. At the time it consisted of two RFDs, a gun range (singular) and a previous chair of another shooting body.

Further restrications on rimfire pistols, I can assure you the SC prevented a total ban on .22 pistols, take that any way you want!

They, as i pointed out yet AGAIN, called for harsher restrictions in terms of what you could license in 22lr (pistols). Again its on their website right now. Go look. Thankfully nothing came of their proposal for further restrictions.

And as for attacks on shooting sports remember SC was a group of affiliated shooting associations, nothing was done on their own volition but in concensus.

Nope.

They attacked semi auto rifles, 22lr pistols and while their mouth was warm they took a crack at banning night shooting.

You may wish to try to rewrite the past but we are where we are

Deflection doesn't work on me.

The so called sports coalition have all these proposals on THEIR WEBSITE. So if you don't believe me just go read their website.

No S/A rifle Bans

not for the want of trying by the sc.

Funny that within 6 months of the proposal by the so called sports caolition the Minister made her statement in the Dáil regarding her intention to ban semi auto rifles from that date on. Odd that, i mean its like something or someone gave her the idea that the shooting community would be behind such a move, you know, via a proposal they submitted, that is still on their website.

Am i being too subtle here?

.22 Pistols licenced when members of a recognised club

Again not for the want of trying by the sc who propsed to further restrict 22lr pistols by barrel length and design. Again on their website.

Can't see any attacks on other aspects of shooting sport evident.

They attempted to ban night time shooting. I mean when you have hunt sabs like Tierney praising you, you know you've done messed up. Link above. In case the link is too much trouble i'll try pictures:

No doubt my response will attacks a hail of abuse!

Not abuse, facts.

You see real facts are links to websites, quotes from articles/persons involved and documented evidence. NOT writing the word "Fact:" before stating something.

As with the substitution issue you have fallen so far short of reaching a point as to be ignored completely. I don't know who is feeding you your information or where you're getting it from but start by reading the so called sports coalitions website. Its there in black and white. They never denied they done these things so why do you?

Grizzly 45

smmember20 wrote: »

Firearms United Network Ireland

So what did they publish after the meeting, if the PRO is all knowing then why am I being quizzed.

Can I ask where are they now and who actually is a member?

Sorry it is easy to generate a name and a function but sustaining same is a real job!

For your information... This is the Irish fledgeling branch of a registered EU NGO advisor & pressure group.
https://firearms-united.com/de/fight-the-future/#
https://firearms-united.com/de/
https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedNetwork/?__xts__[0]=68.ARC1UGhKGh4s60zl05hixtoGhFJG38qfRHK42F_jDDMWQH9TiM0RCaoluMDbURd2keKYitDLd4A3kaHzyOY92t4TCM17iInkWAaM8pRgoSmyj9Np9Mrw76NodS_A4zI6InCv_JuC38MJQoG4tjhTwtNWs4JXc-cD8eTcQdCYAb4VKvgQePHNfGWxEHu3Vp7Uec0VGtDtMYLOKIaHU7Q8r-g9r-JQ6JstLdgjjwCvOKhZKIQHeeTSKs8CufWxFwAJY5UtekuN1UsiHX3TRxG2G1xDTiCoVXVDtIu2YVhXJB5jA4oNDtD9


While we are about it...What organisation if any, do you represent here???
And if you do repersent one what exactly did your lot do about those two points?...Asking for a friend.

smmember20

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

For your information... This is the Irish fledgeling branch of a registered EU NGO advisor & pressure group.
https://firearms-united.com/de/fight-the-future/#
https://firearms-united.com/de/
https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedNetwork/?__xts__[0]=68.ARC1UGhKGh4s60zl05hixtoGhFJG38qfRHK42F_jDDMWQH9TiM0RCaoluMDbURd2keKYitDLd4A3kaHzyOY92t4TCM17iInkWAaM8pRgoSmyj9Np9Mrw76NodS_A4zI6InCv_JuC38MJQoG4tjhTwtNWs4JXc-cD8eTcQdCYAb4VKvgQePHNfGWxEHu3Vp7Uec0VGtDtMYLOKIaHU7Q8r-g9r-JQ6JstLdgjjwCvOKhZKIQHeeTSKs8CufWxFwAJY5UtekuN1UsiHX3TRxG2G1xDTiCoVXVDtIu2YVhXJB5jA4oNDtD9


While we are about it...What organisation if any, do you represent here???
And if you do repersent one what exactly did your lot do about those two points?...Asking for a friend.

Sounds like a good group!

So who elected you to the position of PRO, how do you represent the views of the shooting public as I don't believe you have an affiliation mechanism for clubs or ranges

Solo runs were metioned earlier in the thread, so do tell of the Irish structure of the organisation

As I have said earlier it is a real pity that over time committees change, resulting in individuals contributing as best they can to the organisation, but Associations like NASRPC have constitutions, they hold elections and all committee members are elected to the committee positions democratically.
They also have a club affiliation structure and membership all be it of clubs but that is how the constitution deems membership.

Maybe enlighten us all how you feel you can represent the shooting public with none of the above checks and balances.

tudderone

A lot better than SCOVI ever did, thats for sure :rolleyes:.

BattleCorp

yubabill wrote: »

The answer is in the form of a question - is the new 3-year licence a renewal or is it a re-application?

A renewal means the licence is ongoing......I tend to think they changed the system to a formal re-application every 3 years.

A renewal is treated as a new application each time, with some exceptions. It's a new application in the fact that the licence doesn't roll-over but in many cases you don't need to provide as much documentation as if it was a new 'new' application. One example is where you need to provide permission letters from farmers if your licence is for vermin control. These aren't needed for a renewal, only a first time application.

With centrefire pistols that when you sub a centrefire pistol, you get a licence for the subbed pistol. But the problem then is that when the licence for the subbed pistol expires, if you apply for a renewal the Gardai aren't legally allowed to issue a new licence for that subbed pistol because it wasn't licenced before November 2008.

There are options. I'm not an expert but I think this is allowed. You can let the subbed licence expire and then put in an application for your old pistol that you had before November 2008 and if that's granted, you can sub it again for your newer pistol. You could be waiting a long time for the Gardai to process the application though, and if it's refused it's off to the courts in which case you will be without a pistol for a decent amount of time.

Another option is to substitute back your old pistol before the licence runs out on your subbed pistol and apply for a renewal on your old pistol. E.g. Original pistol > subed for new pistol > subbed back for original pistol > apply for renewal. At least I think that's the process.

Maybe smmember 20 can let us know the process.

Cass

yubabill wrote: »

A renewal means the licence is ongoing......I tend to think they changed the system to a formal re-application every 3 years.

We were told this back in 2009. Each three year span will be a re-application process, not a renewal. Then they brought out the pre-populated FCR form which is a Firearm Certificate Renewal. In essence once nothing has changed and all the details contained within it are the same you sign it and send it back. However granting was and is not guaranteed.

solarwinds

smmember20 wrote: »

Sounds like a good group!

So who elected you to the position of PRO, how do you represent the views of the shooting public as I don't believe you have an affiliation mechanism for clubs or ranges

Solo runs were metioned earlier in the thread, so do tell of the Irish structure of the organisation

As I have said earlier it is a real pity that over time committees change, resulting in individuals contributing as best they can to the organisation, but Associations like NASRPC have constitutions, they hold elections and all committee members are elected to the committee positions democratically.
They also have a club affiliation structure and membership all be it of clubs but that is how the constitution deems membership.

Maybe enlighten us all how you feel you can represent the shooting public with none of the above checks and balances.

Your some man for dodging questions.
As you seem to be a very intrinsic part of SCOVI (and here I am only guessing based on your undying support and defence of said outfit)and their dealings, can I make a suggestion that when ye have another meeting can you please make a proposal to get the licence substitution process sorted legally, thereby allowing different firearms to be substituted without the supposed process currently in place. This will allow existing licence holders to licence new firearms but also not increase the numbers out there.
Maybe some real world action such as this, based in law would garner ye more support within the shooting community.

tudderone

Cass wrote: »

We were told this back in 2009. Each three year span will be a re-application process, not a renewal. Then they brought out the pre-populated FCR form which is a Firearm Certificate Renewal. In essence once nothing has changed and all the details contained within it are the same you sign it and send it back. However granting was and is not guaranteed.

Which is a waste of everyones time really, just make it a renewal and leave it at that. While it doesn't cause trouble, if there is a change of super and he starts getting awkward, which happened in my area a few years ago, it leads to un-needed tension.

jb88

smmember20 wrote: »

It is strange how you can make appaently factual statements with no basis in fact, the significant issue about the potential to ban S/A rifles arose out of significant pressure brought to bear by AGS in which they sought a ban on S/A rifles, I know it to be a fact that the SC along with its associated groups arranged a show and tell at Harbour House in which there was a demonstration at that range of all of the sporting firearms used, to the then Minister FF and her officials.
Prior to the visit to HH the Minister & Justice officials visited Garda HQ where they were shown the blackest S/A with so many accesories that the DOJ officials couldn't pick it up.
At the round table discussion in HH at which I can tell you I was present, the Minister indicated some concern about S/A rifles due to the negative publicity that they had attracted and she stated at that meeting that there may be a consideration to cap S/A rifles if in their view there was an excessive ploferation of them, this was also stated realted to .22 pistols by the Minsiter.
Fact: There were no proposals by SC or its affilaited organsiations of which all major shooting organisations were members at that time to ban S/A rifles, it came from AGS and articulated by DOJ, it was a cap not a ban, and indeed it has never come to pass!
Further restrications on rimfire pistols, I can assure you the SC prevented a total ban on .22 pistols, take that any way you want!
And as for attacks on shooting sports remember SC was a group of affiliated shooting associations, nothing was done on their own volition but in concensus.
You may wish to try to rewrite the past but we are where we are
No S/A rifle Bans
.22 Pistols licenced when members of a recognised club
Can't see any attacks on other aspects of shooting sport evident.
No doubt my response will attacks a hail of abuse!

Hey I know I was there on the day, and there was no round table discussion, everyone came in had a look around were updated on what was taking place and they promptly left. That Minister might as well have been staring into a field as she clearly failed to even comprehend what was going on around and as events afterwards have shown clearly out of her depth.

No group has any influence, the DOJ can do what they want in this country and nothing is going to change that. Only one guy from the same constituency tried to help in that respect and got lambasted for it by all other shooting groups as a result. (MM)- I think over time it affected him so much he just took a step back from everything and returned to being just a shooter.

You all go around stabbing everyone else in the back, well understand its a circle and sooner or later it happens to you.

The only person who loses here is the shooter, after all ego's are casually massaged out the door and even a pea shooter needs a restricted licence.

jb88

tudderone wrote: »

Which is a waste of everyones time really, just make it a renewal and leave it at that. While it doesn't cause trouble, if there is a change of super and he starts getting awkward, which happened in my area a few years ago, it leads to un-needed tension.

These guys thrive on tension, the only way is to put it back on them and dont take no for an answer and push it up the hill.
How anyone in Ireland fears a Gardai is beyond me, they can try as much as they want to mess with you, but if you dont stand up and be counted then they win anyway.

In relation to licences this I can attest to many times over. Ive dealt with a lot of awkward Chiefs and some mellow, others dont, and some are ok. It takes all walks of life to work in that situation.

They can ask, make bold statements but if you have your act together and have a clear written requirement then you will get sorted

Grizzly 45

Sounds like a good group!

So who elected you to the position of PRO, how do you represent the views of the shooting public as I don't believe you have an affiliation mechanism for clubs or ranges

Solo runs were metioned earlier in the thread, so do tell of the Irish structure of the organisation

As I have said earlier it is a real pity that over time committees change, resulting in individuals contributing as best they can to the organisation, but Associations like NASRPC have constitutions, they hold elections and all committee members are elected to the committee positions democratically.
They also have a club affiliation structure and membership all be it of clubs but that is how the constitution deems membership.

Maybe enlighten us all how you feel you can represent the shooting public with none of the above checks and balances

.

Simple really...your established organisations do not have a monopoly on the Irish shooting public.
They can support whomever and whatever they want, either financially or by activism. Preferably by being active and spreading the word about FUNI and there is a new organisation also in the NI/Uk who has also affiliated The Owners Rights Cooperative [ORC].
If and when we get a sufficient body of grassroots activists.
THEN we might go for all this stuff you describe and formalise an organisation, and if enough people feel we are doing a good enough job representing the Irish shooting public .We might push for a position on the FCP... Not that we could be bothered on that really as your future problems will be coming from Brussells, Where we are active and based and your Govts here will just accept it and probably gold plate the legislation to add their personal touches.With what seems to be the usual knee bending and acceptence of the established organisations.

But until then we'll keep doing your work for you and actively assisting Irish gun owners with their legal problems on applications. As well as contacting the DOJ on legislation,active or proposed that the shooting orgs seem to miss or consider irrelevant,and publish our findings and meetings openly,so people will have some idea as to what is happening rather than soundbites, or silence from other organisations.
Hope this answers your questions
Best
Grizzly.

Grizzly 45

Considering...

SC proposed - ban on even more pistols, ban on semi-autos, ban on night shooting

NASRPC - ban on certain pistols, sought control of pistol licensing, the proposed introduction of graduated licensing system, sought grants improperly.

Are you really sure these orgs have Irish shooting interests at heart???
OTOH FUNI and FUN and ORC have a no-compromise attitude and policy in Europe and in their national chapters.
So just ask in future ...Are you happy with what your established organisations are doing for your shooting disiplines??? If you are well and good,and God speed to you.
I wasn't,and that's why I joined FUN on the EU side of things,and that's how I ended up being the PRO for them,and everything else sofar here in IRL.

BSA International

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.

Simple really...your established organisations do not have a monopoly on the Irish shooting public.
They can support whomever and whatever they want, either financially or by activism. Preferably by being active and spreading the word about FUNI and there is a new organisation also in the NI/Uk who has also affiliated The Owners Rights Cooperative [ORC].
If and when we get a sufficient body of grassroots activists.
THEN we might go for all this stuff you describe and formalise an organisation, and if enough people feel we are doing a good enough job representing the Irish shooting public .We might push for a position on the FCP... Not that we could be bothered on that really as your future problems will be coming from Brussells, Where we are active and based and your Govts here will just accept it and probably gold plate the legislation to add their personal touches.With what seems to be the usual knee bending and acceptence of the established organisations.

But until then we'll keep doing your work for you and actively assisting Irish gun owners with their legal problems on applications. As well as contacting the DOJ on legislation,active or proposed that the shooting orgs seem to miss or consider irrelevant,and publish our findings and meetings openly,so people will have some idea as to what is happening rather than soundbites, or silence from other organisations.
Hope this answers your questions
Best
Grizzly.

So how does "Joe" or "Jane" shooter, who is sick of the other self appointed me feiners, join FUNI?

Grizzly 45

You are in it already.:D
Not giving you a short answer, but if you are in an EU country and a gun owner you and the millions of others of us are potentially represented by FUN on the EU level.
Now, if you want to contribute a few quid in a donation to FUN.Go right ahead the info is in the links a few posts back, and I'm sure Tomaz the president will send you something from Poland to acknowledge it.

But like us, not one single, member of the founders take a red cent for our wages from FUN. We don't have big offices or live Wayne La Pew Limousine lifestyles.
As FUNI,is still setting up here, We cant take memberships or whatnot as we arent a formal structure or a company or all the rest. Not that we want them either.

What IS appreciated however is people who would be willing to help out and be part of a grassroots network.IOW we don't want your money first off.:D
When we do need it, for a particular event or whatever,it will go fund me, or buy us a cup of coffee fundraising.If it is a critical event, that is worth notice on an EU level,FUN will consider supporting it...
Pity, it didn't exist when we were all doing the HC and DC court dances here.:eek:

We want a few good men and women and other sexes to help out in lobbying, and responding to any issues that might arise at both national and EU level.
That's the most helpful at the moment, Word out and willing to help.:)

BSA International

Grizzly,

Few questions.

So the "we" in Ireland you refer to are self appointed?

You have no/few actual members apart from the "we" you refer to?

I cannot "join" but I can donate to some dude in Poland?

How did you convince DOJ that you and the "we" mentioned represent anyone?

tonysopprano

Am also a member, as my membership card states

smmember20

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.

Simple really...your established organisations do not have a monopoly on the Irish shooting public.
They can support whomever and whatever they want, either financially or by activism. Preferably by being active and spreading the word about FUNI and there is a new organisation also in the NI/Uk who has also affiliated The Owners Rights Cooperative [ORC].
If and when we get a sufficient body of grassroots activists.
THEN we might go for all this stuff you describe and formalise an organisation, and if enough people feel we are doing a good enough job representing the Irish shooting public .We might push for a position on the FCP... Not that we could be bothered on that really as your future problems will be coming from Brussells, Where we are active and based and your Govts here will just accept it and probably gold plate the legislation to add their personal touches.With what seems to be the usual knee bending and acceptence of the established organisations.

But until then we'll keep doing your work for you and actively assisting Irish gun owners with their legal problems on applications. As well as contacting the DOJ on legislation,active or proposed that the shooting orgs seem to miss or consider irrelevant,and publish our findings and meetings openly,so people will have some idea as to what is happening rather than soundbites, or silence from other organisations.
Hope this answers your questions
Best
Grizzly.

Not a bit, self appointed no authority to represent anyone, realistically thats what I see, aspiration to be a body! well you need to put in the work, garner support and get some credability! No you have not answered any of my questions!

otmmyboy2

smmember20 wrote: »

Not a bit, self appointed no authority to represent anyone, realistically thats what I see, aspiration to be a body! well you need to put in the work, garner support and get some credability!

Bit rich coming from a SCOVI supporter, no? :rolleyes:

No you have not answered any of my questions!

Actually Grizzly has, but as others have noted you studiously avoid answering any, while criticising them for not answering yours.

Here's a few unanswered queries from a cursory glance:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116544222&postcount=106
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116543254&postcount=104
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116539372&postcount=100


Any particular reason why?

Grizzly 45

smmember20 wrote: »

Not a bit, self appointed no authority to represent anyone, realistically thats what I see, aspiration to be a body! well you need to put in the work, garner support and get some credibility! No you have not answered any of my questions!

Neither have you any of mine...Or anyone else here..... maybe if your "organisation " whatever it is...Stopped dicking about and actually diid their jobs since maybe May 2006 when the roof fell in on shooting sports.... We wouldnt have to go and do it for you?:)

BSA International

tonysopprano wrote: »

Am also a member, as my membership card states

Of FUNI? If so how, considering what Grizzly said earlier?

Grizzly 45

BSA International wrote: »

Grizzly,

Few questions.
You have no/few actual members apart from the "we" you refer to?

Has been answerd for you in the next posts.

I cannot "join" but I can donate to some dude in Poland?

Sure you can "join" FUN ,and the "dude in Poland Tomaz Stephen is the president of the organisation.,if you went and persued the web pages it would be pretty explanatory on how this works...but hey,if you want big posh offices and nice ID cards and organised structures with committees and people wasting your membership due and not really doing their job....And seemingly are more intent on knee bending than actually fighting the members corner...

So the "we" in Ireland you refer to are self appointed?

We are not "self-appointed" We have the franchise of the organisation for Ireland So we can hardly be self-appointed. From small acorns an all that.

How did you convince DOJ that you and the "we" mentioned represent anyone?

It was pretty simple really,a couple of emails and phone calls, wanting to discuss legislation on a segment of firearms that affect some Irish gun owners that for some the " Big organisations" Either never got the memo for, ignored totally,[ or WERE ignored by the DOJ], weren't interested in, couldn't be arsed in representing,or some other reason had zero information on and for whatever reasons ignored multiple requests from concerned owners of these firearms on info and updates on this.

I guess some orgs talk good fights and others actually go and do their job.

We must be doing something right then as we have all this huffing and puffing about not being a recognised organisation with no mandate with no fancy offices and all that usual Irish "trying to put down the new competition" tactics... Did SC /NASRPC have an immediate mandate and spring fully formed from Zeuse's head whenever they were formed?

But the simple fact is FUNI did it, and your lot didn't in this case. So maybe you have to up your game abit?:)

Cass

smmember20 wrote: »

.... self appointed....

As are the sc.

no authority to represent anyone,

Nor were the sc, and still are not for most.

realistically thats what I see,

Me too with the sc.

garner support and get some credability!

The sc done this by seeking bans on pistols, semi-auto rifles and night time shooting. So what credibility have they to claim to represent shooting sports.

No you have not answered any of my questions!

As you have not answered mine.