Semi Auto Rifles contd

Cass

My meaning is i've not affiliated to any of them so have no axe to grind in terms of favoritism.

Uinseann_16

To be quite frank on the matter the constant bitching whining and moaning among shooters and shooting Orgs is a disgrace
I'm a younger shooter and personally I am staunchly against any and all new legislation restrictions etc Because of what I've seen
I've seen people shoot CF handguns at ranges never being able to have one because shooting Orgs and people couldn't get their heads out of each others asses when I wasn't even able to get a training licence
And now we're looking at a lead ban that will end our sport as we know it and a majority are just concerned which org is doing what etc
Alot of lads are going to get a rude awakening when they finally come for their side by sides and .22s
Fact is shooters are in this together and a house divided cannot stand while some are sawing at the joists to make it fall quicker
It's just disheartening to watch

BattleCorp

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

To be quite frank on the matter the constant bitching whining and moaning among shooters and shooting Orgs is a disgrace
I'm a younger shooter and personally I am staunchly against any and all new legislation restrictions etc Because of what I've seen
I've seen people shoot CF handguns at ranges never being able to have one because shooting Orgs and people couldn't get their heads out of each others asses when I wasn't even able to get a training licence
And now we're looking at a lead ban that will end our sport as we know it and a majority are just concerned which org is doing what etc
Alot of lads are going to get a rude awakening when they finally come for their side by sides and .22s
Fact is shooters are in this together and a house divided cannot stand while some are sawing at the joists to make it fall quicker
It's just disheartening to watch

You don't think I've a right to b1tch and moan when shooting organisations that are supposed to be representing my best interests fcuk things up by trying to further their own intersts and actually damage shooting in this country?

I do agree with you that we are going nowhere without the shooting organisations putting forward a united front (both in Ireland and in Europe) but I won't hold my breath.

Why won't I hold my breath? Because of experience. It's frustrating when you see how shooting organisations carry on. Solo runs, back stabbing, shennanigans etc. Cass has mentioned many of the dodgy strokes that have been pulled by some of the organisations. Another example is where a shooting organisation I was once a grassroots member of actually took away the votes from grassroots shooters in their organisation. How is that for the benefit of shooters on the ground?

Again, I agree with you. It's disheartening to watch. I honestly don't know what the solution is? There's so much distrust because of past actions I don't see how the groups can work together.

Uinseann_16

BattleCorp wrote: »

You don't think I've a right to b1tch and moan when shooting organisations that are supposed to be representing my best interests fcuk things up by trying to further their own intersts and actually damage shooting in this country?

I do agree with you that we are going nowhere without the shooting organisations putting forward a united front (both in Ireland and in Europe) but I won't hold my breath.

Why won't I hold my breath? Because of experience. It's frustrating when you see how shooting organisations carry on. Solo runs, back stabbing, shennanigans etc. Cass has mentioned many of the dodgy strokes that have been pulled by some of the organisations. Another example is where a shooting organisation I was once a grassroots member of actually took away the votes from grassroots shooters in their organisation. How is that for the benefit of shooters on the ground?

Again, I agree with you. It's disheartening to watch. I honestly don't know what the solution is? There's so much distrust because of past actions I don't see how the groups can work together.

No I think it's completely deserved and right to criticize the orgs , directly
Solution is for the shooting Orgs to drop the egos and get off their high horses talk to individuals shooters and figure out what the people they are Representing actually want
Unfortunately until that happens were pretty much F*cked

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

N
. Open to correction here but the lockbox thing for transporting ammo isn't an EU thing either.

But you are right, the greatest danger to us is from the EU, but our own aren't far behind.

It is , ASFIK under some of the directives about handling and moving munitions and explosives. and has been in national legislation for awhile...However,like most it is a "locked receptacle"[not specified] So your hunting rucksack with a cheapo luggage lock is good enough to pass the legislation. So there is no need to go overkill here either on this.

Grizzly 45

BSA International wrote: »

What bites me is the history of small groups and individuals talking to DOJ and making a balls of things.

So going by your statement...we made a"balls of things " by having the teremity to go and ask a Govt dept could they clarify their position of the Irish govt on this legislation that appeared pretty much out of nowhere two years ago and that .NOT.ONE.SINGLE.OTHER.Organisation touched,botherd or was arsed to do so. With the potential and now legislation has provenich also BTW affects a growing section of their own disipline ,namely M1 carbine class in Gallery rifle,as well as the 9mm carbine class that people can lose their property without compensation
under an EU directive?? And we should just take that???
Because our "betters " haven't been arsed yet to pursue this and people were wondering WTF was going on????


Been more bawling and bitching here about getting a bloody lock and a crappy sports duffle bag from the pound shop to put your ammo in as you take it to the range or the field, than people losing their semi-auto rifles and mags...But hey...It was to be expected from the big orgs, we are obviously a minority
and expendable and appeasement sacrifices obviously in the Irish FUDD organisations eyes and actions as amply shown ??

Fact check : It was NARGC money that got pistols returned long before they backed many other similar cases. NARGC also provide comp fund cover through a number of ranges. Not many shooting organisations have the financial resources NARGC have incl. NASRPC

.

Yeah, only because they had to as they offered the shooters compensation fund, which almost bankrupted the NARGC taking badly advised high and supreme court cases,and caused enough ill will amongst its members and bodies too. Talk about making a balls of things....

Grizzly 45

How I see the future of shooting organizations play out in Ireland and globally.

They need to urgently;
Get woke, get loud and proud and no compromise, Get IN YOUR FACE!!
on the net and streets or die...Simple as!!

Sitting back, having a bunch of yesterday's men and Gammons compromising and hiding away or doing utterly disastrous PR and media interviews while,or hatching deals in smokey backrooms in the middle of the night or over dinner in some expensive restaurant and not revealing what was done while collecting nice paychecks is sooo 20th century. It didn't serve us well at all then and sure as Hell will not serve us now in the 21st!

It's a whole new world of having to play the social media,PCedness and attitudes and thats where a lot of the war is fought in cyberspace.not accepting that fact is simply being in denial that the ground is shifting under the organisational feet and if like anything it cant shift with the times,it becomes obsolete and extinct.

tudderone

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How I see the future of shooting organizations play out in Ireland and globally.

They need to urgently;
Get woke, get loud and proud and no compromise, Get IN YOUR FACE!!
on the net and streets or die...Simple as!!

Sitting back, having a bunch of yesterday's men and Gammons compromising and hiding away or doing utterly disastrous PR and media interviews while,or hatching deals in smokey backrooms in the middle of the night or over dinner in some expensive restaurant and not revealing what was done while collecting nice paychecks is sooo 20th century. It didn't serve us well at all then and sure as Hell will not serve us now in the 21st!

It's a whole new world of having to play the social media,PCedness and attitudes and thats where a lot of the war is fought in cyberspace.not accepting that fact is simply being in denial that the ground is shifting under the organisational feet and if like anything it cant shift with the times,it becomes obsolete and extinct.

I'm pretty sure wokeism and Political correctness are not huge fans of public gun ownership no matter what.

yubabill

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How I see the future of shooting organizations play out in Ireland and globally.

They need to urgently;
Get woke, get loud and proud and no compromise, Get IN YOUR FACE!!
on the net and streets or die...Simple as!!

Sitting back, having a bunch of yesterday's men and Gammons compromising and hiding away or doing utterly disastrous PR and media interviews while,or hatching deals in smokey backrooms in the middle of the night or over dinner in some expensive restaurant and not revealing what was done while collecting nice paychecks is sooo 20th century. It didn't serve us well at all then and sure as Hell will not serve us now in the 21st!

It's a whole new world of having to play the social media,PCedness and attitudes and thats where a lot of the war is fought in cyberspace.not accepting that fact is simply being in denial that the ground is shifting under the organisational feet and if like anything it cant shift with the times,it becomes obsolete and extinct.

My experience tells me that you can't argue logically with a woke.

They argue through emotion - I haven't had any verbal encounters and no flaming rows, or anything like that. I debated arch-woke Merc on P.ie over a period of days and finally figured out that he was taking the p*ss out of everyone - then we became maybe not friends, but we developed an unspoken mutual respect, where we both just carried on as before.

The woke remind me of the arguments I had with girls when we were kids - facts can change, feelings trump all - logic doesn't count.

We are in a post-Enlightenment time. But woke is a fad, neither science nor society can survive in a woke atmosphere.

The best thing we can do is stick together when the next problem happens - if we all accept that everyone did a little and that the drops eventually add up to an ocean......

Edit; Hands up to say that I was on here a while ago saying that we should go woke - tried it by writing to the papers and got nowhere.

tudderone

yubabill wrote: »

My experience tells me that you can't argue logically with a woke.

They argue through emotion - I haven't had any verbal encounters and no flaming rows, or anything like that. I debated arch-woke Merc on P.ie over a period of days and finally figured out that he was taking the p*ss out of everyone - then we became maybe not friends, but we developed an unspoken mutual respect, where we both just carried on as before.

The woke remind me of the arguments I had with girls when we were kids - facts can change, feelings trump all - logic doesn't count.

We are in a post-Enlightenment time. But woke is a fad, neither science nor society can survive in a woke atmosphere.

The best thing we can do is stick together when the next problem happens - if we all accept that everyone did a little and that the drops eventually add up to an ocean......

Having worked in 2 major colleges, i concur. But i feel some engaged in wokism are pure wee-wee takers.

Grizzly 45

I am using the term "woke" here as an example or a methodology to get our messages across.
Not that you have to engage with"wokeists" in lengthy conversations or online arguments it is a waste of time and brain cells.
And one of the best people I've seen in driving them utterly nuts is Mike Lindsay over on ORC.
By just using politeness and mostly saying "NO" in many different variations,[and pictures of kittens,with guns in some cases:D]
I reckon these people go into apoplectic rages worthy of an 8year olds tantrums. Because this is what you are dealing with Big,spoilt, kids,in adult bodies who have never faced people saying NO to them, and expect the world to fall into their line of thought, or issue a grovelling apology for "offending their feelings". They cant handle this and its fun to watch or imagine their heads exploding behind their screens.
So discern between using wokeist tactics and dealing with them is two differnt buckets of fish.

In his book “Skin in the Game,” Nicholas Nassim Taleb writes about the surprising ability of small but intransigent minorities — 3 per cent to 4 per cent is enough — to change the direction of entire societies. He writes: “The most intolerant wins. . . . Yes, an intolerant minority can control and destroy democracy. . . . t will eventually destroy our world. So, we need to be more than intolerant with some intolerant minorities.”




https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/to-beat-woke-tyrants-rest-of-us-must-treat-them-like-monsters/?fbclid=IwAR2QLxeq1KW3d_Gx9hiMPnm67GEbpowoce6uuYhynJO69jqOoQviTjNM0hI

BSA International

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So going by your statement...we made a"balls of things "

Yeah, only because they had to as they offered the shooters compensation fund, which almost bankrupted the NARGC taking badly advised high and supreme court cases,and caused enough ill will amongst its members and bodies too. Talk about making a balls of things....

Ref your 1st statement. If the cap fits. Time will tell if you did make a balls of it

Ref your second statement. The NARGC got the ball rolling and should have left it at that. My made a balls of it statement stands after that.

tudderone

BSA International wrote: »

Ref your 1st statement. If the cap fits. Time will tell if you did make a balls of it

Ref your second statement. The NARGC got the ball rolling and should have left it at that. My made a balls of it statement stands after that.

The thing is there are many genuine people out there trying to negotiate better licencing of firearms, both in Ireland and Europe. But SCOVI were Judases going to the doj and selling us out, banning lamping, having to do their courses at their range before getting a pistol licence and all that crap.

solarwinds

BSA International wrote: »

Ref your 1st statement. If the cap fits. Time will tell if you did make a balls of it

Ref your second statement. The NARGC got the ball rolling and should have left it at that. My made a balls of it statement stands after that.

Lets judge an organisation on their actions and what they achieve not what they might do.
And lets face it SCOVI's actions have been nothing short of disgraceful so far.
Why not let FUN / FUNI see what they can do for the benefit of all shooters before people through them under the bus and start comparing them to an outfit who only seem to want to decimate the sport.

Grizzly 45

BSA International wrote: »

Ref your 1st statement. If the cap fits. Time will tell if you did make a balls of it

Ref your second statement. The NARGC got the ball rolling and should have left it at that. My made a balls of it statement stands after that.[/QUOTE
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: N

yubabill

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I am using the term "woke" here as an example or a methodology to get our messages across.
Not that you have to engage with"wokeists" in lengthy conversations or online arguments it is a waste of time and brain cells.
And one of the best people I've seen in driving them utterly nuts is Mike Lindsay over on ORC.
By just using politeness and mostly saying "NO" in many different variations,[and pictures of kittens,with guns in some cases:D]
I reckon these people go into apoplectic rages worthy of an 8year olds tantrums. Because this is what you are dealing with Big,spoilt, kids,in adult bodies who have never faced people saying NO to them, and expect the world to fall into their line of thought, or issue a grovelling apology for "offending their feelings". They cant handle this and its fun to watch or imagine their heads exploding behind their screens.
So discern between using wokeist tactics and dealing with them is two differnt buckets of fish.

In his book “Skin in the Game,” Nicholas Nassim Taleb writes about the surprising ability of small but intransigent minorities — 3 per cent to 4 per cent is enough — to change the direction of entire societies. He writes: “The most intolerant wins. . . . Yes, an intolerant minority can control and destroy democracy. . . . t will eventually destroy our world. So, we need to be more than intolerant with some intolerant minorities.”




https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/to-beat-woke-tyrants-rest-of-us-must-treat-them-like-monsters/?fbclid=IwAR2QLxeq1KW3d_Gx9hiMPnm67GEbpowoce6uuYhynJO69jqOoQviTjNM0hI

Jordan Peterson does that sooooooo well, too.