SYRIA

biko

This Robert Newman "History of Oil" sheds a lot of light on how we got here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpm_8v80hw

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wait til the Chinese hegemony happens, you'll be begging for the good old days of US dominance.

Some people will be, but I doubt many westerners will... because it won't affect them that much. China is focused on Asia.. sure, they'll expand their influence into other nations but any moves they do to expand their actual territory or real power will be in Asia. The Chinese love the idea of being a benevolent power, helping the lesser states around them... the old system of tribute, and satraps. But when they're crossed they'll be brutal to those who do, although, I suspect few will cross them. (Just as few crossed the US, and when they did, they found themselves hit with Trade restrictions, and other slaps on the wrist)

Personally, I don't mind the US that much. They're a superpower. Just as the imperial nations of the British or the French, they exercised their power around the world. It's just the way things are. The Chinese will behave similarly. As long as people recognise that "might is right", and everything else is just PR/Marketing/Propaganda spin, then you won't be surprised when they behave badly.

biko

biko wrote: »

Assad is Alawite and so are many in his administration.
He's not as bad as Iran but there is some religious stuff in there.

Alawites are often presented as an offshoot of Shia Islam.
Alawites, like the Shia, belong to a line beginning with the Imam Ali bin Abi Talib who was among the first males to convert to Islam when he was 8 years old and he was among the closest companions to Muhammad (37 at the time).

Yes. And because he is from a minority he’s good for the minorities in those countries. Including Christians but also the Shia and Alawites.

Montage of Feck

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. And because he is from a minority he’s good for the minorities in those countries. Including Christians but also the Shia and Alawites.

Look at what happened when the musilim brotherhood got into power in Egypt, was not not a good time for Christians.

theballz

Biden not even two months in and he’s having a pop at Syria. It’s shocking

Gatling

theballz wrote: »

Biden not even two months in and he’s having a pop at Syria. It’s shocking

He was having a pop at Iranians who targeted a us base .
Did you expect they could launch rockets and not receive any in return

Signore Fancy Pants

Gatling wrote: »

He was having a pop at Iranians who targeted a us base .
Did you expect they could launch rockets and not receive any in return

theballz has to be on a wind up.

Amirani

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Dublin City Council should also be held partially responsible for whats going on in Myanmar. In stripping Suu Kyi of the freedom of the city it contributed to a campaign that sullied her prestige and emboldened the military to take back control.

Time and time again we've seen the Burmese generals refer to that decision by Dublin City Council. It really has caused huge amounts of instability in South East Asia, and arguably the World.

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

Nonsense. They don’t even have a blue sea fleet yet. It’s hard to imagine any foreign power being as destructive to Europe and the Middle East as the US has been in the last two decades.

Currently the Chinese navy consists of 400 vessels and in the next 8 years it's believed they will have in excess of 550 warships they currently are the biggest navy in the world and rapidly growing ,as it stands they could easily attack and take several other countries in the region ,
They have been sending coast guard vessels(navy) to protect illegal Chinese fishing in other countries territorial waters threating to attack and sink vessels that challenge them ,
Even russians in Siberia are worried about the growing Chinese migrant population in the region they think the Chinese could do a Putin and send troops to protect Chinese populations in other countries (unlikely but possible)

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Currently the Chinese navy consists of 400 vessels and in the next 8 years it's believed they will have in excess of 550 warships they currently are the biggest navy in the world and rapidly growing ,as it stands they could easily attack and take several other countries in the region ,
They have been sending coast guard vessels(navy) to protect illegal Chinese fishing in other countries territorial waters threating to attack and sink vessels that challenge them ,
Even russians in Siberia are worried about the growing Chinese migrant population in the region they think the Chinese could do a Putin and send troops to protect Chinese populations in other countries (unlikely but possible)

The Chinese navy is very limited in the ability to extend it's power beyond it's shoreline. They've got very little that could combat Japans navy, or the US. A large part of their navy consists of troopships and transports. Their subs are improving though, and they'll likely have a few more mid sized carriers soon. All the same, it's mostly a defensive fleet, designed to invade Taiwan. It's got little capability to do much more..

And, more importantly, very little to gain from attacking most of their neighbors. The taking of Islands, and expanding their borders, is a way to show dominance over the region, tracing back to the need to show the diplomatic superiority of China. It's similar to how the US decided all of North/South America was under their "protection", within their sphere of influence.. and not to be tampered with by foreign powers.

As for who could challenge them.. Korea's air force is still the best in the region. Japans navy is more powerful, and versatile. Vietnam would simply give up it's coastal regions and retreat to the jungles/mountains to engage in guerrilla warfare. The Philippines are still a protectorate in the eyes of most Americans. Where else? India has a massive military. Russia would intercede in any attacks on any nations along their own borders..

China isn't going to mess with Russia. Nah. China's most likely enemy in the region is India.

Montage of Feck

The chinese are already a threat to nations in the south china sea where they are claiming anything that isn't tied down. Meanwhile off the sth. american and african coasts huge Chinese fishing fleets are raiding fishing grounds they have no right to.

Manic Moran

Deleted User wrote: »

The Chinese navy is very limited in the ability to extend it's power beyond it's shoreline. They've got very little that could combat Japans navy, or the US. A large part of their navy consists of troopships and transports.

You might find this Japanese assessment interesting. It's only a matter of time before the Chinese become the dominant naval force after the US.
https://csbaonline.org/research/publications/dragon-against-the-sun-chinese-views-of-japanese-seapower

Manic Moran

Manic Moran wrote: »

You might find this Japanese assessment interesting. It's only a matter of time before the Chinese become the dominant naval force after the US.
https://csbaonline.org/research/publications/dragon-against-the-sun-chinese-views-of-japanese-seapower

Of course, it's only a matter of time.

China is an industrial giant, but their economy remains shaky. Their development and application of military technology is also quite shaky, and considering the corruption present in all levels of their military, I'd question just how effective the production of their own assets will be.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Currently the Chinese navy consists of 400 vessels and in the next 8 years it's believed they will have in excess of 550 warships they currently are the biggest navy in the world and rapidly growing ,as it stands they could easily attack and take several other countries in the region ,
They have been sending coast guard vessels(navy) to protect illegal Chinese fishing in other countries territorial waters threating to attack and sink vessels that challenge them ,
Even russians in Siberia are worried about the growing Chinese migrant population in the region they think the Chinese could do a Putin and send troops to protect Chinese populations in other countries (unlikely but possible)

1) they don’t have a capability of projection beyond their local area and unlike the virulent europhonic Americans, no desire to.
2) the Russian thing is nonsense. China isn’t going to invade Russia for frozen ice lands. Both countries are getting friendlier.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Of course, it's only a matter of time.

China is an industrial giant, but their economy remains shaky. Their development and application of military technology is also quite shaky, and considering the corruption present in all levels of their military, I'd question just how effective the production of their own assets will be.

They are turning out warships at least as twice as quick as any other country and opening more and bigger boat yards at the same time,
Their a massive threat going forward

I’m not sure how we moved onto China though, from Syria.

Montage of Feck

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The chinese are already a threat to nations in the south china sea where they are claiming anything that isn't tied down. Meanwhile off the sth. american and african coasts huge Chinese fishing fleets are raiding fishing grounds they have no right to.

And what about the 800 military bases the US have around the world?

Montage of Feck

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And what about the 800 military bases the US have around the world?

Better the devil you know I suppose, although the carry one with diego garcia is unacceptable.

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

And what about the 800 military bases the US have around the world?

About 38 the rest aren't bases ,they could be anything from listening stations to other intelligence gathering operations to offices in buildings
There not the only ones who have similar set ups in foreign countries

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m not sure how we moved onto China though, from Syria.

Because posters moved from Syria to the US... so moving to China isn't unreasonable since we're talking major powers that can seriously affect other nations.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

About 38 the rest aren't bases ,they could be anything from listening stations to other intelligence gathering operations to offices in buildings
There not the only ones who have similar set ups in foreign countries

Ok. How about the bases, and the military hardware contained with them, that are dotted around China's borders? Just as they did the same around Russia's borders.

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

that are dotted around China's borders? Just as they did the same around Russia's borders.

No new US or NATO bases have been opened since the middle of the cold war , plenty of new Russian bases have opened closer to us allies in eastern Europe than the other way around ,
No new bases in Asia that didn't exist since the Korea and Vietnam wars .
Again not of these bases and full on military bases equipped for war or defense purposes.
The whole idea that the us or NATO is surrounding Russia is nothing more than Kremlin propaganda to make it sound NATO and the EU are planning to invade russia for one reason or another it's utter nonsense people buy into ,
Russia's biggest complaint in the last few years is air defence missiles in europe effect Russia's ability to attack other countries

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

No new US or NATO bases have been opened since the middle of the cold war , plenty of new Russian bases have opened closer to us allies in eastern Europe than the other way around ,
No new bases in Asia that didn't exist since the Korea and Vietnam wars .
Again not of these bases and full on military bases equipped for war or defense purposes.
The whole idea that the us or NATO is surrounding Russia is nothing more than Kremlin propaganda to make it sound NATO and the EU are planning to invade russia for one reason or another it's utter nonsense people buy into ,
Russia's biggest complaint in the last few years is air defence missiles in europe effect Russia's ability to attack other countries

I said China's borders. (Similar to what they did with Russia)



And the US has established bases since the Vietnam war in Japan, Korea, and other Asian nations.

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

And the US has established bases since the Vietnam war in Japan, Korea, and other Asian nations.

They actually haven't some of the dots on the map are long existing bases dating back 70 +years others are only proposed facilities bit the map is taken from a pro China propaganda documentary I'd take the surrounding China with the perfect noose with a big pinch of salt

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

They actually haven't some of the dots on the map are long existing bases dating back 70 +years others are only proposed facilities bit the map is taken from a pro China propaganda documentary

What pro-china documentary? It's a common image used in many western news articles.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/10/08/small-rotations-to-far-flung-southeast-asian-countries-are-likely-the-future-of-indopacom-assignments/

"The Palau runway project was completed this summer and opens up that country — about 2,700 miles southeast of China — as a possible U.S. military transportation hub"

"This (Guam) has been in the works for years, with the construction of Marine Corps Camp Blaz, Guam. By roughly 2025, the plan is to move 5,000 Okinawa, Japan-based Marines to Guam.

The permanent base had been in the works since 2006, with a long process to get there. Carved out of the island jungle, it required first selecting and leveling a site."

And there's other sites which have been established over the last 30 years with the aim of combating China's influence, but have since been allowed to lapse, although the agreements are still in place should they need to be reactivated. Just because Trump sought to reduce the US presence in Asia, doesn't discount what happened previously, nor what Biden is likely to increase, as a way of improving their relations with foreign allies.

Now.. you could provide some links showing that the US doesn't have the bases in the image I provided, or that they don't supply/train the countries where those bases are located.

I'd take the surrounding China with the perfect noose with a big pinch of salt

Of course you would.. since you're the one who said it. I certainly didn't. Did anyone else suggest it?

donaghs

kildare lad wrote: »

Maybe some cultures do better with democracy than others. It's a bit naive of the US foreign policy to bring freedom and democracy to the middle east where a tribal and religious way of life has ruled for thousands of years .

Syria may not be a democracy, but it’s a relatively secular state with protections for minorities.

I dont think that if the US backing some majority Sunni groups had successfully toppled the government, it would have brought freedom and democracy.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Palau runway project was completed this summer and opens up that country — about 2,700 miles southeast of China — as a possible U.S. military transportation hub"


Of course you would.. since you're the one who said it. I certainly didn't. Did anyone else suggest it?

Palau has had a us military presence since 1944 , they added a 2nd airfield capable of handling bigger transport aircraft .

The quote came from the documentary that produced the map .

So other than bases that have existed since the Korean war America hasn't been building masses of bases to completely surrounded China ....


But let's leave that to a China thread.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

So other than bases that have existed since the Korean war America hasn't been building masses of bases to completely surrounded China ....


But let's leave that to a China thread.

Or you could prove the assertion. And then leave the rest to a China thread.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or you could prove the assertion. And then leave the rest to a China thread.

You claimed they are surrounding China ,

Not true .

Off and start a thread so

facepalm. won't even defend your own statements.

Fine. Let it go.

Montage of Feck

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Better the devil you know I suppose, although the carry one with diego garcia is unacceptable.

The devil that massacres millions?

Montage of Feck

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ok. How about the bases, and the military hardware contained with them, that are dotted around China's borders? Just as they did the same around Russia's borders.

China is an existential threat to Taiwan so having a US fleet near by is needed.

theballz

I didn’t create this thread to discuss China. Stay on topic or don’t post at all.

Thanks

Gatling

theballz wrote: »

I didn’t create this thread to discuss China. Stay on topic or don’t post at all.

Thanks

Who died and made you mod .it's not his fault he's wrong just repeating the propaganda coming out of China and anti us retoric

Gatling

Montage of Feck wrote: »

China is an existential threat to Taiwan so having a US fleet near by is needed.

It goes as far the Philippines and Vietnam

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Who died and made you mod .it's not his fault he's wrong just repeating the propaganda coming out of China and anti us retoric

I'm not posting propaganda or even anti-US rhetoric. Just because you make such claims doesn't mean they're true.

You made a claim about there were no new bases being created since the Vietnam war. I disagreed, and posted a link to an article which referred to at least two bases that have been created since then. You have yet to provide any evidence at all to support your statements except, to repeat your opinions as if they're facts that can't be denied.

Same with your assertion that I'm promoting Chinese propaganda, since when I asked what documentary you referred to, you deflected. So.. nah.. As I said previously, you refuse to defend your own statements.

theballz wrote:

I didn’t create this thread to discuss China. Stay on topic or don’t post at all.

Thanksp

Then participate to the thread. You started it, posted a bit, and moved on. Where's your own commitment to the thread?

kravmaga

theballz wrote: »

Anyone else feel the US need to be held more accountable for what has happened over there?

The Syrian civil war has wiped out hundreds of thousands of life’s. The electrical grid is only partially available and power supply is poor.

I personally think the whole situation over there is so sad and has led to many refugees fleeing the country and ultimately let to a rise in Islamic terrorist groups.

It’s pretty terrible that the country is left in such a difficult position

Its not just the USA that have their fingers in the pie, you forgot to mention Israel, Turkey and Russia.

I agree the country is in a mess after 10 yrs since the arab spring up-risings.

Syrian people were very well educated, Damascus was a thriving city before the arab up-rising in 2011. So maybe the Syrian people have only themselves to blame for the current mess the country is in today.

Assad in power annoyed a lot of Syrians but the failure to oust him only by backing from Russia et al Putin has the country in a stale mate situation.

ISIS was driven out of Syria in the past 5 years only with Russian intervention and assistance.

Israel have a lot to answer for also, they are conducting constant bombing raids in Southern Damascus.

Its only a matter of time before an Israeli jet is shot down by the Syrians as they have the Russian supplied s-300/s-400 long range air defence system.

Syria also have the BUK-2 missile defence system.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/15/syrian-air-defences-intercept-israeli-aggression-over-damascus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlcmziopqZA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9kntzkSQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSJw1hW80tU

kravmaga

theballz wrote: »

I didn’t create this thread to discuss China. Stay on topic or don’t post at all.

Thanks

OP, No back seat moding

Gatling

kravmaga wrote: »

ISIS was driven out of Syria in the past 5 years only with Russian intervention and assistance.

Its only a matter of time before an Israeli jet is shot down by the Syrians as they have the Russian supplied s-300/s-400 long range air defence system.

Syria also have the BUK-2 missile defence system.

Russia did very little fighting against Isis , they were more concerned with keeping assad in power the majority of their interventions was against anti Assad forces ,
The majority of the strikes against Isis came from the US lead coalition and Kurdish forces heavily backed by Western special forces .

The Syrians have buk 2's I'd imagine the Russian pilots are scared ****less of getting shot down by the Syrians again.

Israel has conducted hundreds of strikes against Iranian forces they believe are a threat and they will keep striking until the Iranians leave

kravmaga

Gatling wrote: »

Russia did very little fighting against Isis , they were more concerned with keeping assad in power the majority of their interventions was against anti Assad forces ,
The majority of the strikes against Isis came from the US lead coalition and Kurdish forces heavily backed by Western special forces .

The Syrians have buk 2's I'd imagine the Russian pilots are scared ****less of getting shot down by the Syrians again.

Israel has conducted hundreds of strikes against Iranian forces they believe are a threat and they will keep striking until the Iranians leave

Wasnt it Turkey that shot down the Russian Mig?

Steve012

Odhinn wrote: »

Can't see what the US would be held accountable for, anymore than Turkey, the Gulf states and Russia.

Isis

Danftant

It's russia's fault

Gatling

kravmaga wrote: »

Wasnt it Turkey that shot down the Russian Mig?

Not the mig the russian spy plane off the coast of Syria killing 15 russians on board

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-45556290

theballz

Steve012 wrote: »

Isis

This exactly, they are responsible for ISIS ever coming into existence and that is no silly conspiracy theory either. Is it absolutely factual

walshb

theballz wrote: »

Anyone else feel the US need to be held more accountable for what has happened over there?

The Syrian civil war has wiped out hundreds of thousands of life’s. The electrical grid is only partially available and power supply is poor.

I personally think the whole situation over there is so sad and has led to many refugees fleeing the country and ultimately let to a rise in Islamic terrorist groups.

It’s pretty terrible that the country is left in such a difficult position

Do people here genuinely give a fook?

I used to try read up on all this Middle East hostility..

It’s about as easy to understand as Shane MacGowan on a bad day!

Doctor Roast

Putin played a blinder in Syria, Obama was not a happy chappy. There's no doubt without Russian intervention the Syrian conflict would have been a longer drawn out battle.

ExMachina1000

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Putin played a blinder in Syria, Obama was not a happy chappy. There's no doubt without Russian intervention the Syrian conflict would have been a longer drawn out battle.

The Russian army was invited into Syria by Assad.

Doctor Roast

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The Russian army was invited into Syria by Assad.

Yep, Putin told Obama they wouldn't be getting involved militarily... Then 2 days later the Russian parliament voted for military intervention and they were doing hundreds of bombing runs, I can remember Obama on TV giving out saying the Russians don't distinguish between Isis or "moderate rebels/opposition". Like it or loathe it, the course of that war changed within a year, it was about time it ended because it was a brutal war.

Gatling

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The Russian army was invited into Syria by Assad.

And there is still conflict in Syria on a daily basis despite russia playing a blinder ,

igCorcaigh

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1368896247034155015?s=19