Grazing 2021

Dunedin

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Jaysus Bass I don't know. I would have been absolutely fooked this spring if it wasn't for the performance of the reseeded ground. Point in case 7.6 acres of reseeded ground giving me back 87 bales with 28hrs wilt, cut with conditioner and tedded twice before raking. All my old ground is closed up for hay and is damn slow growing and it having 3.5 bags 18s +s. The grazing ground got bag urea in Feb and a bag 18s since and with the growth the last few days with the first bit of warmth of summer, has left me with a lot of daylight in front of me. I see lads paying stupid money on big tractors and jeeps an complaining that they have no grass. A small bit every year would make itself back when conditions for grass growth is tough. Reseeded 2 acres with a mixed species this spring on recommendation from a cousin so we'll see how this does for what the potential future holds.

Same as that here. It’s the reseeded fields that got me through this spring.

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I reseed 8+ years ago it along with the rules of GLAS prevented me from doing LIPP my scheme payments were 1800/ year instead of over 4k. Over 2k per year with GLAS running for 6-7 years that's 14-15k.

of

Was the LIPP not capped at 10 ha so unless you have 100% farm reseeded then it’s not an issue.

DBK1

Dunedin wrote: »

Same as that here. It’s the reseeded fields that got me through this spring.

Same here, and it’s also the difference in having good quality silage in winter and reducing the meal bill. Cattle thrive better on reseeded ground as well so you get more cheap weight gain during summer and get cattle killed sooner. When making silage from reseeded ground you’ll get up to 30 bales/acre of top quality over 3 or 4 cuts, on old grass you’ll be lucky to get 20 bales of average quality over 2 cuts.

The only negative I can think of for reseeding is the initial cost but that pays back within 2 years. I would say the reason for a lot of beef farmers not making profit is because of not reseeding. It should be number 1 on the list of improvements on every farm.

Bass Reeves

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Jaysus Bass I don't know. I would have been absolutely fooked this spring if it wasn't for the performance of the reseeded ground. Point in case 7.6 acres of reseeded ground giving me back 87 bales with 28hrs wilt, cut with conditioner and tedded twice before raking. All my old ground is closed up for hay and is damn slow growing and it having 3.5 bags 18s +s. The grazing ground got bag urea in Feb and a bag 18s since and with the growth the last few days with the first bit of warmth of summer, has left me with a lot of daylight in front of me. I see lads paying stupid money on big tractors and jeeps an complaining that they have no grass. A small bit every year would make itself back when conditions for grass growth is tough. Reseeded 2 acres with a mixed species this spring on recommendation from a cousin so we'll see how this does for what the potential future holds.

I am tailoring my advice to the poster. He has a small west of Ireland farm with 16 suckler's and there followers. He is following more or less Teagasc advice. He was out early with light stores and is not on his third rotation. It's costing him a tenner an acre per rotation for to keep rotation going as well as stock housed for 17 days. That all work. Say his grazing platform is 25 acres this has costs him 750 in fertlizer so far this year. That is the profit on 2-3 cattle. Reseeding itself has a cost.

In his case LIPP and if he added tradition hay meadows to 10 acres it would be 3.5-4k in next scheme. The new multi species leys are 250/ HA. I want to see these specs before I head off reseeding 20-30 acres over the next two years.

Like I said not being able to get LIPP cost me 14-15k over 6-7 years. That is a sh!t load of money. If you had 10 less stock 1k would sort a lot of issue this year for you.

I been chasing my tail all spring...I still am. And I am lucky I only have 60 cattle instead of 72. Less is better in drystock.

cacs

Alibaba wrote: »

I'm in a similar position. Been a really tough few months.
Still have around 30 stores inside , land swimming , grass very slow to grow on my old pastures also.
I'd say I was spoiled the last 3/4 years as loads of grass everywhere and thinking every year would be the same.
How quickly we forget the bad Springs.
Too many cattle now , will have to cut back.
Not going through this again.

I do agree i will pull back numbers a bit. But only to free land to do more reseeding.

cacs

DBK1 wrote: »

Same here, and it’s also the difference in having good quality silage in winter and reducing the meal bill. Cattle thrive better on reseeded ground as well so you get more cheap weight gain during summer and get cattle killed sooner. When making silage from reseeded ground you’ll get up to 30 bales/acre of top quality over 3 or 4 cuts, on old grass you’ll be lucky to get 20 bales of average quality over 2 cuts.

The only negative I can think of for reseeding is the initial cost but that pays back within 2 years. I would say the reason for a lot of beef farmers not making profit is because of not reseeding. It should be number 1 on the list of improvements on every farm.

100% reseeding is far more profitable than old Pasture.

Castlekeeper

DBK1 wrote: »

Same here, and it’s also the difference in having good quality silage in winter and reducing the meal bill. Cattle thrive better on reseeded ground as well so you get more cheap weight gain during summer and get cattle killed sooner. When making silage from reseeded ground you’ll get up to 30 bales/acre of top quality over 3 or 4 cuts, on old grass you’ll be lucky to get 20 bales of average quality over 2 cuts.

The only negative I can think of for reseeding is the initial cost but that pays back within 2 years. I would say the reason for a lot of beef farmers not making profit is because of not reseeding. It should be number 1 on the list of improvements on every farm.

It leads into a higher cost system though, and that's a tough game to win with low margins. All the beef demo farms have failed so far, afaik.
An example of a profitable beef farmer I knew, he was running about 20-30 head on 100 acres of heath and 30 acres of fields. Bought cheap stores in the fall and sold off grass 1-2 years later, all outwintered, as good as zero costs.

cacs

Castlekeeper wrote: »

It leads into a higher cost system though, and that's a tough game to win with low margins. All the beef demo farms have failed so far, afaik.
An example of a profitable beef farmer I knew, he was running about 20-30 head on 100 acres of heath and 30 acres of fields. Bought cheap stores in the fall and sold off grass 1-2 years later, all outwintered, as good as zero costs.

I am a particular kind of person.
I would plant it rather than do that

Neddyusa

cacs wrote: »

100% reseeding is far more profitable than old Pasture.

...if you're milking cows off it.

Otherwise - as Bass says - for drystock it simply doesn't pay

wrangler

Neddyusa wrote: »

...if you're milking cows off it.

Otherwise - as Bass says - for drystock it simply doesn't pay

You'll improve the quality if you manage it well, we're producing 14ton + Dry matter/ha here on grass that was reseeded in 1980
And there's not 100 units nitrogen going on it either.
We took 73 dmd silage off some of it last September

Bass Reeves

Neddyusa wrote: »

...if you're milking cows off it.

Otherwise - as Bass says - for drystock it simply doesn't pay

And with milking cows if fertlizer limits and registers are bought in it may as well not be as profitable as at present.

Bass Reeves

cacs wrote: »

I am a particular kind of person.
I would plant it rather than do that

There is a happy medium. However intensive drystock is not profitable enough to justify the extra effort. You only have to look at the work load on the demonstration farms, using mixed grazing, trying to get out in February the introducing bales and bringing cattle back into the yard to feed them ration. Then trying to maintain an 18-20 day rotation with fertlizer and taking out excess paddocks. And these demonstration farms were on good land and had there land in one platform.

It all right to talk about 30+ bales per acre off 3-4 cuts but that has a costs as well. Those mice leafy bales maybe costing 27-30/ bale to produce and some of them a bit with 20% DM. Fattening all these nice cattle under 20-22 months so you can technically be lower car on than elsewhere.....and Larry gives you 3.8(+/-15c) of a base from October to April.

CloughCasey1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is a happy medium. However intensive drystock is not profitable enough to justify the extra effort. You only have to look at the work load on the demonstration farms, using mixed grazing, trying to get out in February the introducing bales and bringing cattle back into the yard to feed them ration. Then trying to maintain an 18-20 day rotation with fertlizer and taking out excess paddocks. And these demonstration farms were on good land and had there land in one platform.

It all right to talk about 30+ bales per acre off 3-4 cuts but that has a costs as well. Those mice leafy bales maybe costing 27-30/ bale to produce and some of them a bit with 20% DM. Fattening all these nice cattle under 20-22 months so you can technically be lower car on than elsewhere.....and Larry gives you 3.8(+/-15c) of a base from October to April.

I think that happy medium is what we all are looking for. I'd be happy to be in that bracket anyway.

Markcheese

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Reseeding with drystock is very marginal. Reseeding will rule you out of GLAS for tradition pastures. As well next environmental scheme looks like it will have payments for mixed herbal type leys. I would hold tough. This year was an anomaly.....I hope a one in 6-7year event. I be slow spending money. Intensive drystock is not profitable

Ya soil test the farm, if it needs lime as well as P&K sort that. Stay away from reseeding

Is there a definition of "reseeding " can you oversow or stitch in seed without spraying off ? Or is that out ?

dh1985

DBK1 wrote: »

Same here, and it’s also the difference in having good quality silage in winter and reducing the meal bill. Cattle thrive better on reseeded ground as well so you get more cheap weight gain during summer and get cattle killed sooner. When making silage from reseeded ground you’ll get up to 30 bales/acre of top quality over 3 or 4 cuts, on old grass you’ll be lucky to get 20 bales of average quality over 2 cuts.

The only negative I can think of for reseeding is the initial cost but that pays back within 2 years. I would say the reason for a lot of beef farmers not making profit is because of not reseeding. It should be number 1 on the list of improvements on every farm.

I was a big advocate for reseeding a few years back. Yes you will get higher volumes of grass growing but you will have to feed it more than older grasses, mind it more regarding poaching and spraying. I have old paddocks here that wouldnt have been reseeded in decades and they wouldn't be a whole.pile behind ground I reseeded in the last few years. And alot more robust at the shoulders of the year also. My own opinion is get your solid right first and foremost and see after that if you are still getting poor output maybe consider reseeding then

Neddyusa

Neddyusa wrote: »

...if you're milking cows off it.

Otherwise - as Bass says - for drystock it simply doesn't pay

Why not reseed a portion of land for animals that you are looking to finish?

Say my name

dh1985 wrote: »

I was a big advocate for reseeding a few years back. Yes you will get higher volumes of grass growing but you will have to feed it more than older grasses, mind it more regarding poaching and spraying. I have old paddocks here that wouldnt have been reseeded in decades and they wouldn't be a whole.pile behind ground I reseeded in the last few years. And alot more robust at the shoulders of the year also. My own opinion is get your solid right first and foremost and see after that if you are still getting poor output maybe consider reseeding then

The biggest attraction from reseeding really comes from the act of the tillage.
By that you're gasing off that soil carbon which in turn releases the soil nitrogen.
Coupled with usually at reseeding you're going with three bags of 10.10.20. And then new seed does have a virility of it's own.
But you can often find a lag then in the third year after reseeding when all that's used up and the soil compacts a bit and that big release has gone.

My own peeve. I read a tweet lately from a company selling calcified seaweed. In it they praised a farmer who reseeds every six years. They also sell grass seed.
That to me is nothing to praise.
If you're going to praise. Praise the farmer who doesn't need to reseed every six years but has twenty year old swards competing just as well.

Cavanjack

_Brian wrote: »

While grass has started moving on grazed ground we’re finding it still slow compared to other years.
With weather over last few days I’d expect it to be better. Even the lawn is growing very little.

It’s an I’ll wind that blows no good!!!

I think the problem has gone from a lack of grass now to a lack of drier ground

Dozer1

case of tetany here this morning first time in years grass is full of water flying through it

memorystick

It’s either a feast or a famine

Pinsnbushings

memorystick wrote: »

It’s either a feast or a famine[/QUOT
Fair hard crop to manage well, the place is gone wild in a few days was spreading fertilizer in a panic last weekend because we were nearly going feeding bales to the cows.

Danzy

Incredible growth these days.

Bass Reeves

Danzy wrote: »

Incredible growth these days.

A lot of that is from all the fertlizer spread during early May to try to keep grass ahead of cattle. However it amazing what 3 degrees centigrade in ground temperature make. In lat April so them was 11C it's only 14C now Nd look at the difference that makes

memorystick

I’ve a field gone to rag order. No grass on it 2 weeks ago and gone wiry now. Feeding bullocks 2 kgs so it should be ok. 13 acres of strong grazing for 60. A week will have it sorted

Bass Reeves

memorystick wrote: »

I’ve a field gone to rag order. No grass on it 2 weeks ago and gone wiry now. Feeding bullocks 2 kgs so it should be ok. 13 acres of strong grazing for 60. A week will have it sorted

If its very strong premow it for them but you need to fence ahead of them. You can mow 2days allowance at the time. This will help maintain intake especially if feeding ration...unlikey if you have 60 in the bunch. The other way is to come in with a disc mower 48 hours before you think they are finished. ideally you need them fenced in a corner of it and top it. They will clean the stem up faster than you think.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If its very strong premow it for them but you need to fence ahead of them. You can mow 2days allowance at the time. This will help maintain intake especially if feeding ration...unlikey if you have 60 in the bunch. The other way is to come in with a disc mower 48 hours before you think they are finished. ideally you need them fenced in a corner of it and top it. They will clean the stem up faster than you think.

We're mowing for the sheep here just to clean off the paddocks, as you say they clean it up very quick, it'd be a mess on the next round if we didn't

memorystick

It probably looks worse than it is. They’ll skin it because they will have to. Serious thrive on cattle. Not spreading anymore fertiliser this year.

Finty Lemon

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If its very strong premow it for them but you need to fence ahead of them. You can mow 2days allowance at the time. This will help maintain intake especially if feeding ration...unlikey if you have 60 in the bunch. The other way is to come in with a disc mower 48 hours before you think they are finished. ideally you need them fenced in a corner of it and top it. They will clean the stem up faster than you think.

Would it be better skip the heavier stuff that needs pre-mowing and move to lighter grass, then bale out the stemmy stuff? I should have done that 2 weeks ago went stripping through it and now the covers ahead are all too strong.

I suppose deciding depends on growth but if there't too much grass on the farm I think I'll be skipping ahead. Will probably run out of grass in 2 weeks...

memorystick

Have lads much grass ahead of them? A famine last May but a feast now but with outdoor dining. It mightn’t rain too much