Batter a Garda, walk out of court before your victim

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

So then go back to the statute book and write up laws for the first, second, and subsequent offenses. Works over here.

There’s a lot of other systems and legal options between the Irish and the American. It’s not one or the other.

Overheal

fvp4 wrote: »

There’s a lot of other systems and legal options between the Irish and the American. It’s not one or the other.

Of course, but as I am far less familiar I couldn't say for certain if Belgium or Nicaragua have similar laws with escalating penalties for repeat offenses. Nothing I said excludes the possibility that they do, either, nor that the central suggestion was to go ensure your legislation handles additional penalties for 2nd 3rd and subsequent offenses to the first.

wicklowstevo

Overheal wrote: »

Perhaps, and that behavior would be an indictment on the officers. If the courts don't punish a felon to the satisfaction of a LEO they should be prosecuted themselves to the maximum extent of the law for exhibiting such contempt of the criminal justice system. Personally I wouldn't want that psychology on my police force whatsoever.

if the police aren't satisficed with the out come of a case they should be prosecuted for being disenchanted with a system that failed everyone but the criminal ?

would you ever give over trying to play up for a reaction every single time ?

Potential-Monke

Strumms wrote: »

I believe that if you assault a Garda... there should be zero ability for any court, any judge to impose a non custodial sentence...

Assault a Garda in the execution of their duty, the max sentence in 7 years so how is this individual getting zilch ?

Just judges shouldn’t be of the ability to do it.., for certain crimes there needs to be minimum sentencing, this is one.

I agree, but the reason for it is also understandable. If the criminals know that they're getting 7 years regardless, then they won't hold back and assaults on Gardai would be higher and more viscous. The same reasoning for suspended sentences, by giving a guilty verdict or agreeing to something else, you are removing the long and expensive full case in return for a lighter sentence, in a nutshell. Don't agree with it, but also understand it.

Potential-Monke

spring lane jack wrote: »

Just like the response the two girls in the Glen park received from ye Saturday night.
https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/young-women-knocked-ground-kicked-20463131

When ye don't solve burglaries, assaults, etc just put out some press releases about grow houses and the innocents think ye are out their fighting crime. Lets not forget how ye deal with informers, another topic the general public would be extremely innocent about.

Do you expect the Gardai to be able to be everywhere at the exact moment they're needed? Are we going to wait for an explanation as to why they couldn't attend the scene, or just jumping to they couldn't be bothered? Or maybe criminals should know to only commit 1 crime at a time so the Gardai can attend them all?

Gardai do solve burglaries, assaults, etc, but some of them can't be reported on, for privacy purposes as one of the reasons.

Here's the detected crimes for 2019. You'll notice drugs, public order and homicide are the highest detected because they're usually crimes where the suspect is caught/at the scene/happening at the time. The rest is lower because the crime has already happened by the time it's reported, so harder to detect in general.

I agree they're a bit hard on the cannabis side of things, and while I wholeheartedly want cannabis to be legalised, unfortunately it's still illegal so this will continue to happen, and usually because it's someone in the area who has reported it, and they have to take action. Unlike burglaries where evidence is thin on the ground most the time.

And I can see you're firmly in the frame of mind that a few bad apples means all 14,500 are bad. So I already know that there's no point because you have your mind made up already. Open to correction on that, but your wording suggests it.

Strumms

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I agree, but the reason for it is also understandable. If the criminals know that they're getting 7 years regardless, then they won't hold back and assaults on Gardai would be higher and more viscous. The same reasoning for suspended sentences, by giving a guilty verdict or agreeing to something else, you are removing the long and expensive full case in return for a lighter sentence, in a nutshell. Don't agree with it, but also understand it.

The law though needs to be a deterrent... if a guy believes he will get a suspended sentence or a few months , there is little deterrent.

7 years ? That’s going to make them think twice.

Overheal

wicklowstevo wrote: »

if the police aren't satisficed with the out come of a case they should be prosecuted for being disenchanted with a system that failed everyone but the criminal ?

Absolutely, if they go and take out their frustrations like a pack of vigilantes, Crack open some skulls etc. the next time they see someone who was legally acquitted by the due process of law, for reasons that due process happened and they disagreed with the result.

Being a law enforcement officer is a privilege not a boys club

would you ever give over trying to play up for a reaction every single time ?

?

wicklowstevo

Overheal wrote: »

Absolutely, if they go and take out their frustrations like a pack of vigilantes, Crack open some skulls etc. the next time they see someone who was legally acquitted by the due process of law, for reasons that due process happened and they disagreed with the result.

Being a law enforcement officer is a privilege not a boys club



?

Bollox , that's not what you were suggesting , your trying to change the posts and dray a response playing your usual games ,

being a law enforcement officer is a privilege ? can you clarify what you mean here ? because it seems that your understanding of the world around you , which might explain a few things

Overheal

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Bollox , that's not what you were suggesting ,

In fact it is. That's why I explained it to you thusly.

your trying to change the posts and dray a response playing your usual games ,

What posts have I 'changed' and how would I do that? What 'game' is being 'played?' - actually, keep that conspiracy to yourself. IDC.

being a law enforcement officer is a privilege ? can you clarify what you mean here ? because it seems that your understanding of the world around you , which might explain a few things

It's quite straightforward: no one is entitled to be a police officer. Nobody has some unassailable right to be a police officer - or a Gardai. Like many other positions, a law enforcement officer is in a position of Trust. But more than say, a priest, a LEO is in fact sworn in, trained, paid and armed by the mechanisms of law and government. They are entrusted with a power of authority under the law that is not afforded to a citizen, to enforce the law against citizens by making arrests under the threat of violent and even lethal reproach.

wicklowstevo

Overheal wrote: »

In fact it is. That's why I explained it to you thusly.



What posts have I 'changed' and how would I do that? What 'game' is being 'played?' - actually, keep that conspiracy to yourself. IDC.



It's quite straightforward: no one is entitled to be a police officer. Nobody has some unassailable right to be a police officer - or a Gardai. Like many other positions, a law enforcement officer is in a position of Trust. But more than say, a priest, a LEO is in fact sworn in, trained, paid and armed by the mechanisms of law and government. They are entrusted with a power of authority under the law that is not afforded to a citizen, to enforce the law against citizens by making arrests under the threat of violent and even lethal reproach.

ya just as i though

you haven't even the start of a clue as to what your talking about

just looking for a reaction all the time like a child with a drum

come back when you grow up a little

Gremlinertia

Overheal, wicklowstevo the bickering must end, put each other on ignore if you have to, forum bans are imminent

spring lane jack

AnMuinteoirOg wrote: »

Yes. Your one making the claims here without providing any evidence.

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it, hombre.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/630758/prosecutions-for-minor-drugs-offences-to-the-fore-during-single-limerick-court-sitting.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ziJ9MNe9H9t7vAjgR5bW6_GV1qUpm820XemEgKVWVc9CJKK5O-G1A9Eo

Potential-Monke

spring lane jack wrote: »

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it, hombre.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/630758/prosecutions-for-minor-drugs-offences-to-the-fore-during-single-limerick-court-sitting.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ziJ9MNe9H9t7vAjgR5bW6_GV1qUpm820XemEgKVWVc9CJKK5O-G1A9Eo

Wouldn't be unheard of to have the same incidents up before the court. I'd imagine in this case, the same few Gardai (possibly even members of the drugs unit) had all these people up, and it's easier to have 1 day spent in court rather than a few hours on loads of different days.

I'll give you another shocking fact. Court sits for different reasons on different days of the week. Where I was, Tues and Thurs were family/civil matters, with Mon and Wed being summons/warrant days, and Fridays were random. Personally, I wouldn't have had most of those in court, amounts were too small. But Chiefs/Supers want to see the younger members getting cases before the court, they even push for it, so doesn't surprise me to see this happening. Plus, some Gardai are still following the belief that it's the devils lettuce...

An Claidheamh

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suspended-sentence-for-teen-guilty-of-giving-garda-awful-hiding-1091652.html

What a ****ing joke

Joke that a 16 year old can get the better of a "trained" Garda

The man who went to his aid, on another day could be facing charges if he helped a civilian (and not a Garda)

I've heard of so many times they avoid getting involved in helping civilians when they are attacked or twist it to pin the blame on the victim, that I've grown immune to sympathy for them

The Gardaí may get their union to petition FFG instead of doing their bidding and judiciary bootlicking

At the end of the day, in Dublin, Ireland, Gardaí avoid policing criminals and will hound and terrify those who fight back under section bla bla bla - knowing a judge will go harder on a non-criminal

I would question, whether in Ireland, the police are more likely to be victims of attack I really would, especially as they are covering up crimes and fiddling with numbers

An Claidheamh

JustAThought wrote: »

Judges are politically appointed. By TD’s. From a shortlist they approve and choose from.

Their agenda and liberal leanings are well known before they are chosen/approved to be put into the job.

Why do you think the country is in such a state.

And yet people blame 'the Left' and Sinn Féin who do not appoint judges and have no vested interest in enriching the legal industry

Let's not forget, the Irish media protect the judiciary - they never name, shame and photograph the judges - they will do so for the victims

In the UK, they would plaster a photo of Mr Toale and that scumbag on the front page

As some said earlier, people deserve the govt they get, especially those who vote for the "law and order party"

Potential-Monke

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Joke that a 16 year old can get the better of a "trained" Garda

Have you ever been involved in an altercation with just yourself and a "group" of youths? While on a bicycle? And one of those youths is "troubled" (media speak for a little scrote) and randomly starts attacking you? And then someone else joins in? All the while knowing you can't really lash back because they're youths and you'll get done for assault? Trained or not, things can go this way.

spring lane jack

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wouldn't be unheard of to have the same incidents up before the court. I'd imagine in this case, the same few Gardai (possibly even members of the drugs unit) had all these people up, and it's easier to have 1 day spent in court rather than a few hours on loads of different days.

I'll give you another shocking fact. Court sits for different reasons on different days of the week. Where I was, Tues and Thurs were family/civil matters, with Mon and Wed being summons/warrant days, and Fridays were random. Personally, I wouldn't have had most of those in court, amounts were too small. But Chiefs/Supers want to see the younger members getting cases before the court, they even push for it, so doesn't surprise me to see this happening. Plus, some Gardai are still following the belief that it's the devils lettuce...

Its not a shocking fact to me. I'm not someone who listens to bar talk stories or thinks people get sentenced to jail for not paying a tv license.

Potential-Monke

spring lane jack wrote: »

Its not a shocking fact to me. I'm not someone who listens to bar talk stories or thinks people get sentenced to jail for not paying a tv license.

Ok, fair enough. How about fact then? This is from 2014 but makes my point:

411 people jailed last year for not paying their TV licence. Granted, they try not to these days and I can't find anything post 2018 (seems to no longer be shocking enough to be news worthy).

Stripeyman

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Ok, fair enough. How about fact then? This is from 2014 but makes my point:

411 people jailed last year for not paying their TV licence. Granted, they try not to these days and I can't find anything post 2018 (seems to no longer be shocking enough to be news worthy).

Those people were not jailed for not paying their TV licence. They were fined for not paying their TV licence, and subsequently jailed for non-payment of their court fines.

Potential-Monke

Stripeyman wrote: »

Those people were not jailed for not paying their TV licence. They were fined for not paying their TV licence, and subsequently jailed for non-payment of their court fines.

Wow... pedant much?

The fine is for non-payment, not paying the fine is jail time, ergo not paying your tv licence can result in you going to prison.

An Claidheamh

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Ok, fair enough. How about fact then? This is from 2014 but makes my point:

411 people jailed last year for not paying their TV licence. Granted, they try not to these days and I can't find anything post 2018 (seems to no longer be shocking enough to be news worthy).

Why would a Garda execute a warrant for a person for this issue when they have thousands of other things to be doing?

Who knows?

Maybe if they stopped going after the low hanging fruit, things would not have deteriorated over the years

You reap what you sow

AnMuinteoirOg

spring lane jack wrote: »

Stick this in your pipe and smoke it, hombre.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/630758/prosecutions-for-minor-drugs-offences-to-the-fore-during-single-limerick-court-sitting.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ziJ9MNe9H9t7vAjgR5bW6_GV1qUpm820XemEgKVWVc9CJKK5O-G1A9Eo

What? One day in one court in one county proves that Guards are only interested in drugs arrest?

Your clutching at straws a bit there.

AnMuinteoirOg

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Why would a Garda execute a warrant for a person for this issue when they have thousands of other things to be doing?

Who knows?

Maybe if they stopped going after the low hanging fruit, things would not have deteriorated over the years

You reap what you sow

Ah can you please provide a list of which Court Orders the Gardaí should follow and which they should ignore?

Potential-Monke

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Why would a Garda execute a warrant for a person for this issue when they have thousands of other things to be doing?

Who knows?

Maybe if they stopped going after the low hanging fruit, things would not have deteriorated over the years

You reap what you sow

Having being one for 9 years, let me tell you how this works (in bigger stations). The summons is issued, sent to the station. The civvie or Sergeant in charge links them to the pulse incident and places them in a folder. The folder is then handed out to the summons/warrants Garda who then serves the summons or executes the warrant. That Garda doesn't care what it's for, it's a legal document that has to be served/executed, and that's their job. In smaller stations, there's no summons/warrant Garda, so the local Garda does all this themselves.

Failure to serve/execute the warrant falls back on the Garda, so they're not going to put themselves in trouble just because it's a summons for a TV licence or something else minor.