The Davy scandal

Gloomtastic! · 10-03-2021 5:45pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Because they took five grand off me? Didn't bother telling me and we only discovered by accident. That little scam extended my mortgage by four months. If I nicked five quid off you,you'd want me banged up or given at least a boot up the arse. That scam had to have been thought up by someone, had to have the approval of senior executives to even begin to operate and finally,someone had to push a button on a keyboard to set it in motion. It took a fraction of a second to take money from me but it took years to get it back. Some people lost their houses from it. Yet,you think there was no personal gain? Bank officials continued to get their bonuses and their representatives continued to lobby on their behalf that they be allowed to exceed the Govt limit on salary scales. The ordinary householder took the hit, yet again, because some guys in a bank decided that those punters were getting too much gain from a mortgage. So, as far as I am concerned, I'd happily jail any of the bank staff involved, instead of allowing them to head off with a safe pension and a redundancy cheque to ease their passage.

I know this is off-topic but I’m very interested in why the bank did this to you.
I too had a tracker and still have. Why did they take yours and not mine? Did you miss a payment?

dubrov · 10-03-2021 5:58pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
Wrong, just plain wrong.
.
The CBI dragged its feet, or may have even had to get prosthetics to get up off its ass to take action.
The banks just stone walled.

Read about it on AAM and see who the real hero of this period was.

Can you link to that article?

There was no precedent for moving people back onto original trackers following fixed rate periods. It had never arisen before so I don't see how it could be so clear cut.

Obviously there has been a ruling since but the fact the banks contested it shows that there was some doubt.

Stovepipe · 10-03-2021 6:08pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I know this is off-topic but I’m very interested in why the bank did this to you.
I too had a tracker and still have. Why did they take yours and not mine? Did you miss a payment?

Not a bit. First clue we had was when we noticed a change of rate and then got onto our broker. We didn't get moved off our Tracker but simply had a rate change. It was all rather subtle but definitely not known to us. We subsequently got a refund and a letter of apology.

Floppybits · 10-03-2021 6:13pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Not a bit. First clue we had was when we noticed a change of rate and then got onto our broker. We didn't get moved off our Tracker but simply had a rate change. It was all rather subtle but definitely not known to us. We subsequently got a refund and a letter of apology.

Jaysus the amount of times I was getting letters to say that they had applied the wrong rate to my tracker and they were going to correct it and refund me x amount. Usually happened after an interest rate change

Gloomtastic! · 10-03-2021 7:28pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

Not a bit. First clue we had was when we noticed a change of rate and then got onto our broker. We didn't get moved off our Tracker but simply had a rate change. It was all rather subtle but definitely not known to us. We subsequently got a refund and a letter of apology.

Thanks. I wonder then why you and not me?

Pelezico · 10-03-2021 7:57pm

Maybe we should open a thread about Davys.

Floppybits · 11-03-2021 12:34am

Back to Davys now. Looks like the kerry co-op are looking into days behaviour. Only the tip of the iceberg.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/exclusive-serious-concerns-raised-over-davy-handling-of-kerry-co-op-shares-607912

Chacha97 · 11-03-2021 10:27pm

See that the group is now up for sale! Quite possible they want to all get out and the new owner will be left liable for any new developments

Floppybits · 11-03-2021 10:29pm

Chacha97 wrote: »

See that the group is now up for sale! Quite possible they want to all get out and the new owner will be left liable for any new developments

Who would buy it? It's reputation is in tatters.

lawrencesummers · 11-03-2021 10:32pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Who would buy it? It's reputation is in tatters.

Bank of Ireland ARE going to buy it.
It’s a done deal in all but formality.

If you were a cynic you might think it’s a way of circumventing the salary caps that apply to bankers.

ulster · 11-03-2021 10:35pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Bank of Ireland ARE going to buy it.
It’s a done deal in all but formality.

If you were a cynic you might think it’s a way of circumventing the salary caps that apply to bankers.

I'd well believe it. A bunch of slitherers, the lot of them.

Chacha97 · 11-03-2021 10:54pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Bank of Ireland ARE going to buy it.
It’s a done deal in all but formality.

If you were a cynic you might think it’s a way of circumventing the salary caps that apply to bankers.

Would this be something similar to AIB acquiring Goodbody's back after being forced to sell them back in aftermath of the crash?

Sheep Shagger · 11-03-2021 11:12pm

Chacha97 wrote: »

Would this be something similar to AIB acquiring Goodbody's back after being forced to sell them back in aftermath of the crash?

Davy has always been privately owned (i think).

12-03-2021 12:12am

it's the central bank asleep at the wheel again..if the security guards are always napping, the thieves will line up to take the piss everytime. They wouldn't do it if they didn't think they'd get off with a slap without prison time.

https://www.centralbank.ie/news/article/the-banking-crisis-a-decade-on-ES12Sept2018

read the post Crash shyte below from the link above...pie in the sky arse covering bollox!!

Building resilience now, for individuals, governments and banks will serve us well for future downturns, whatever the cause may be. It will also help with the pressing need to restore trust in the system, a foundation of which is that financial institutions are trustworthy.

All of the actions taken during the crisis, and the changes made in its aftermath are to support the vital, public interest mission of the Central Bank. That is to safeguard the stability of the financial services system and protect consumers.

My energies are focused on ensuring that the Central Bank has a robust, fit for purpose regulatory framework, and is delivering an effective, intrusive, analytical and outcomes-focused approach to supervision, which remembers the lessons of the past, anticipates future risks, and continuously improves.

My hope is that in 10 years’ time, we will still remember the banking crisis and the lessons from it. But that between now and then we will have navigated the many challenges ahead and more successfully weathered the inevitable shocks that will occur, than we did 10 years ago. This will require continued diligence, building resilience, a willingness to listen to different voices and challenge the assumptions we are relying on – it is inevitable that not all of them will hold.

With that said, I look forward to hearing the perspectives of my distinguished fellow speakers, answering your questions and hearing your views.

Jizique · 12-03-2021 12:26am

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Davy has always been privately owned (i think).

Bank used to own 92% (I think) of Davy until an MBO before the financial crisis; think they got €350m for it, financed by Anglo, but they managed to refinance and not get dragged down after Anglo went bust

JPup · 12-03-2021 12:30am

Jizique wrote: »

Bank used to own 92% (I think) of Davy until an MBO before the financial crisis; think they got €350m for it, financed by Anglo, but they managed to refinance and not get dragged down after Anglo went bust

Ironically, Davy was saved at the time by the big fees earned by its bond desk from the NTMA which wanted to have at least one broker on all of its bond sales.

blackwhite · 12-03-2021 1:32pm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Davy has always been privately owned (i think).

It was originally private, but BOI bought it in the 80s/90s.

Management borrowed a shedload off Anglo at the height of the tiger years, and bought it back from BOI in 2006.

When the crash happened in 2008 the Davy exec team had a double whammy - 1) their business was worth a lot less than they'd borrowed from Anglo to fund the purchase and 2) a lot of them had taken significant elements of their pre-2006 bonuses as BOI shares instead of cash, and these shares were now worthless.

Speculation is that pressures from both of the above could have been driving forces behind looking for their own private deals to make some profits from.

Either way - Davy were my broker for a number of years and I'm in the process of moving my own modest few shareholdings elsewhere.
Have heard that they're under significant pressure from large corporate clients, and that's what is driving them to look for a sale quickly.

Pelezico · 12-03-2021 10:44pm

blackwhite wrote: »

It was originally private, but BOI bought it in the 80s/90s.

Management borrowed a shedload off Anglo at the height of the tiger years, and bought it back from BOI in 2006.

When the crash happened in 2008 the Davy exec team had a double whammy - 1) their business was worth a lot less than they'd borrowed from Anglo to fund the purchase and 2) a lot of them had taken significant elements of their pre-2006 bonuses as BOI shares instead of cash, and these shares were now worthless.

Speculation is that pressures from both of the above could have been driving forces behind looking for their own private deals to make some profits from.

Either way - Davy were my broker for a number of years and I'm in the process of moving my own modest few shareholdings elsewhere.
Have heard that they're under significant pressure from large corporate clients, and that's what is driving them to look for a sale quickly.

You are not alone. I would think a lot of charities are moving their funds.

BailMeOut · 13-03-2021 11:06am

Email sent to all Davy clients overnight:

Dear Client,

My name is Bernard Byrne and I am Interim CEO of Davy.

I am writing to you in relation to the recent investigation by the Central Bank of Ireland (CBI) into Davy and its role in a transaction that took place in 2014.

The first thing that I want to do is to offer my unreserved and unequivocal apology and regret to all Davy clients for what has occurred. I fully acknowledge that Davy failed to adhere to the standards that are expected of us.

You undoubtedly have questions arising from the matter. This letter is intended to answer some of the questions you may have surrounding the investigation itself and the actions we have taken since the findings of the investigation were announced. This includes yesterday’s Board decision to pursue the sale of the Group.

Please click here to read the Questions & Answers.

I would like to stress that the information provided is in no way an attempt to justify or minimise the seriousness of the findings which have been made against Davy but are presented in order to provide assurance around the robust position of the firm and the many strong controls that do exist.

We fully recognise that you may have further questions and concerns over the coming days which may not be addressed within this document. We will continue to communicate with you and the Davy Select team is always available to you. Please also refer to our website at davy.ie/client-update

The failures at Davy have impacted our reputation and your trust in us. As the new leader of Davy I will do everything I can to rebuild that trust. We remain fully committed to and focussed on serving your needs.

Yours sincerely,

Bernard Byrne
Interim CEO

J & E Davy, trading as Davy and Davy Select, is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

https://www.davy.ie/binaries/content/assets/davy/davy-update/2021/davy_questions-answers_march21.pdf

Pelezico · 13-03-2021 12:35pm

BailMeOut wrote: »

Email sent to all Davy clients overnight:

Dear Client,

My name is Bernard Byrne and I am Interim CEO of Davy.

I am writing to you in relation to the recent investigation by the Central Bank of Ireland (CBI) into Davy and its role in a transaction that took place in 2014.

The first thing that I want to do is to offer my unreserved and unequivocal apology and regret to all Davy clients for what has occurred. I fully acknowledge that Davy failed to adhere to the standards that are expected of us.

You undoubtedly have questions arising from the matter. This letter is intended to answer some of the questions you may have surrounding the investigation itself and the actions we have taken since the findings of the investigation were announced. This includes yesterday’s Board decision to pursue the sale of the Group.

Please click here to read the Questions & Answers.

I would like to stress that the information provided is in no way an attempt to justify or minimise the seriousness of the findings which have been made against Davy but are presented in order to provide assurance around the robust position of the firm and the many strong controls that do exist.

We fully recognise that you may have further questions and concerns over the coming days which may not be addressed within this document. We will continue to communicate with you and the Davy Select team is always available to you. Please also refer to our website at davy.ie/client-update

The failures at Davy have impacted our reputation and your trust in us. As the new leader of Davy I will do everything I can to rebuild that trust. We remain fully committed to and focussed on serving your needs.

Yours sincerely,

Bernard Byrne
Interim CEO

J & E Davy, trading as Davy and Davy Select, is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

https://www.davy.ie/binaries/content/assets/davy/davy-update/2021/davy_questions-answers_march21.pdf

Would you buy a used car from these guys?

irishgeo · 13-03-2021 2:22pm

I'm curious ok so some of the original staff from the dodgy bond deal still have shares in Davy and were consulted and agreed to a sale.

So they make money twice over. Money on the dodgy bond deal and then get to profit from the sale because of the dodgy bond deal.

Dempo1 · 13-03-2021 2:30pm

irishgeo wrote: »

I'm curious ok so some of the original staff from the dodgy bond deal still have shares in Davy and were consulted and agreed to a sale.

So they make money twice over. Money on the dodgy bond deal and then get to profit from the sale because of the dodgy bond deal.

I'm curious that these clever people knowing what was coming, weren't that clever in selling up before their share holding values plummeted. Not bit sorry for them and I'd doubt very much if any of them with contribute financially and personally towards the €4 + million fine imposed on the firm.

irishgeo · 13-03-2021 2:34pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

I'm curious that these clever people knowing what was coming, weren't that clever in selling up before their share holding values plummeted. Not bit sorry for them and I'd doubt very much if any of them with contribute financially and personally towards the €4 + million fine imposed on the firm.

The shares were given to them free as part of their jobs. Any sale is a profit.

Jizique · 13-03-2021 3:02pm

irishgeo wrote: »

The shares were given to them free as part of their jobs. Any sale is a profit.

Not quite true

Pelezico · 13-03-2021 3:22pm

irishgeo wrote: »

I'm curious ok so some of the original staff from the dodgy bond deal still have shares in Davy and were consulted and agreed to a sale.

So they make money twice over. Money on the dodgy bond deal and then get to profit from the sale because of the dodgy bond deal.

They have not sold yet. The MBO was for 310m and recently valued at €400m.

I wonder what it will sell for. They are in the same position now as the owner of the Anglo bond. Ie they have to sell as the brand is toxic with their ownership.

Such is life.

Mongfinder General · 13-03-2021 5:22pm

Pelezico wrote: »

They have not sold yet. The MBO was for 310m and recently valued at €400m.

I wonder what it will sell for. They are in the same position now as the owner of the Anglo bond. Ie they have to sell as the brand is toxic with their ownership.

Such is life.

They’ll probably sell it to themselvesðŸ™ˆ. The new shareholders will need to be vetted.

smurgen · 13-03-2021 5:55pm

I think it's telling that the same politicians that were banging on non stop and rightfully so about the Kinahans seem eerily silent in the face of corporate fraud and white collar crime. Are we to take that insider trading is acceptable by the authorities?

Pelezico · 13-03-2021 6:18pm

smurgen wrote: »

I think it's telling that the same politicians that were banging on non stop and rightfully so about the Kinahans seem eerily silent in the face of corporate fraud and white collar crime. Are we to take that insider trading is acceptable by the authorities?

Well this is all over the news and these guys will feel the full weight of regulation.

The Kinahand are scumbags. There is no comparison.

smurgen · 13-03-2021 8:19pm

Pelezico wrote: »

Well this is all over the news and these guys will feel the full weight of regulation.

The Kinahand are scumbags. There is no comparison.

It's the comparison of reaction by politicians I find stark. Nothing from your Neale Richmond's etc. FG td's in particular seem to be very selective about what they gather outrage from.

Pelezico · 13-03-2021 9:40pm

smurgen wrote: »

It's the comparison of reaction by politicians I find stark. Nothing from your Neale Richmond's etc. FG td's in particular seem to be very selective about what they gather outrage from.

Your comparison with the Kinahans is not very credible. Those guys are animals.

The Davy scandal

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