LL wants tenant to pay to resolve dampness

Seth Brundle

I'm asking this on behalf of someone I know. They're renting an apartment which has dampness issues. They've been in the apartment for a few years now and as I understand it, the issue has been around for a while (not sure if it was like that when they moved in).

The LL agreed to fund an inspection after a number of complaints about the dampness/mould. Once they received the report back, the LL was very quick to say that my friend should pay to remedy the issues (~€1300).
My friend intends to disagree with the LL's suggestion - I suggested I'd get opinions from here first.

Below are two images with excerpts form the report (issues found and recommendations to resolve)

Issues found during inspection:


Recommendations from inspection:


Obviously there are measures which my friend should implement to assist in reducing the level of dampness but is it fair to expect them to fund the physical changes required to increase the levels of natural ventilation?

Gumbo

What has been determined as the cause of the dampness?

Seth Brundle

All that was in the report is in the images above.

Deeec

Did the tenant keep the vents opened and clean them regularly?
Did the tenant dry clothes indoors?
Did the the tenant open windows and ventilate the apartment every day?

What needs to be determined here is if the tenant contributed to the problem by not doing the above?
( Im not saying it is the tenants fault though - there may be reasons why they could'nt do the above)

Calahonda52

Deeec wrote: »

Did the tenant keep the vents opened and clean them regularly?
Did the tenant dry clothes indoors?
Did the the tenant open windows and ventilate the apartment every day?

What needs to be determined here is if the tenant contributed to the problem by not doing the above?
( Im not saying it is the tenants fault though - there may be reasons why they could'nt do the above)

I agree with this, however if the quotes are for work to be done to the fabric of the gaff, or adding new gear, then its on the landlord.
It sound a kip

DubCount

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I agree with this, however if the quotes are for work to be done to the fabric of the gaff, or adding new gear, then its on the landlord.
It sound a kip

I would disagree. The issue is "who caused the problem". If the dampness was caused by the tenants actions, then its their responsibility to fix it. If its not as a result of tenant actions or inactions, then its the landlords responsibility.

The fact it relates to the fabric of the property is not relevant. If sealing up vents etc caused the damage, then its a tenant responsibility.

JustAThought

Interesting. Im half way through sealing up a vent that causes a shocking draught against the advice of a professional. Might reconsider now. Never thought a sealed vent could cause dampness. Live & learn.

STB.

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Obviously there are measures which my friend should implement to assist in reducing the level of dampness but is it fair to expect them to fund the physical changes required to increase the levels of natural ventilation?

No. The landlord is a chancer. Cold bridging, inadequate insulation and poor vents that haven't been serviced in a long time by the sound of things are the factors the landlord needs to address. It is his property.

Calahonda52

DubCount wrote: »

I would disagree. The issue is "who caused the problem". If the dampness was caused by the tenants actions, then its their responsibility to fix it. If its not as a result of tenant actions or inactions, then its the landlords responsibility.

The fact it relates to the fabric of the property is not relevant. If sealing up vents etc caused the damage, then its a tenant responsibility.

.
Disagree away: reading my post might help: fitting fans is not for the tenant.
Fixtures and fittings are for the LL
.
Taking down wall vents and cleaning the sh!t from there is whose call in you book?

Seth Brundle

Deeec wrote: »

Did the tenant keep the vents opened and clean them regularly?
Did the tenant dry clothes indoors?
Did the the tenant open windows and ventilate the apartment every day?

What needs to be determined here is if the tenant contributed to the problem by not doing the above?
( Im not saying it is the tenants fault though - there may be reasons why they could'nt do the above)

AIUI my friend did dry some clothes there and used the windows - however they work and can't have the windows open all day, every day.
I don't believe that they unclogged the vents. Woukd this be a standard expectation for a tenant?
They reckon there are issues with the property nonetheless.

DubCount wrote: »

The fact it relates to the fabric of the property is not relevant. If sealing up vents etc caused the damage, then its a tenant responsibility.

They didn't seal up the vents.

The Student

Calahonda52 wrote: »

.
Disagree away: reading my post might help: fitting fans is not for the tenant.
Fixtures and fittings are for the LL
.
Taking down wall vents and cleaning the sh!t from there is whose call in you book?

I suggest you read the post. There was no mention of fitting fans. The only reference was to vents.

If the actions of the tenant is causing the issue then it's the tenants responsibility to rectify the matter. Clothes should not be dried in property unless by using driers and with appropriate ventilation.

Why do you think bathrooms and kitchens have windows and extractor fans.

AndrewJRenko

The Student wrote: »

Clothes should not be dried in property unless by using driers and with appropriate ventilation.

So when a property is rented with a washing machine but no drier, what are tenants supposed to do?

mickdw

The Student wrote: »

I suggest you read the post. There was no mention of fitting fans. The only reference was to vents.

If the actions of the tenant is causing the issue then it's the tenants responsibility to rectify the matter. Clothes should not be dried in property unless by using driers and with appropriate ventilation.

Why do you think bathrooms and kitchens have windows and extractor fans.

The report recommended fitting fans to bathroom and kitchen.

The Student

mickdw wrote: »

The report recommended fitting fans to bathroom and kitchen.

The original post did but the post quoted did not.

alias no.9

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So when a property is rented with a washing machine but no drier, what are tenants supposed to do?

If there is no private outdoor space, the LL is required to provide a dryer.

Caranica

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So when a property is rented with a washing machine but no drier, what are tenants supposed to do?

Report the landlord for not meeting basic rental standards if there is no outside drying available.

punisher5112

Most apartment wouldn't have outside drying.

The LL is responsible for bringing the property up to standard, that's typical of cow boy LL get Tennant to pay.....

Op it's up to the LL.

Why don't they get onto their local environmental health officer in the council, they will come out, inspect and advise.
The report will also be worth taking note by themselves, they can enforce the issues be rectified.

Inferno circumstances should your friend entertain any of that rubbish from the LL.

The LL is running a business, it's upto him to have the property in correct working order. Of course if damage has been done by a Tennant yes they of course should be responsible for their actions but this is all down to inadequate insulation and ventilation.

punisher5112

JustAThought wrote: »

Interesting. Im half way through sealing up a vent that causes a shocking draught against the advice of a professional. Might reconsider now. Never thought a sealed vent could cause dampness. Live & learn.

You can get inserts which can help for this, they don't block but help stop huge drafts or sounds.

Gumbo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

All that was in the report is in the images above.

What is your friend doing to cause high levels of humidity?

Keeping windows closed?
Drying clothes inside?
Showering without opening windows?

Seth Brundle

Gumbo wrote: »

What is your friend doing to cause high levels of humidity?

Keeping windows closed?
Drying clothes inside?
Showering without opening windows?

I dont believe that they were doing anything out of the ordinary

Cuddlesworth

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I dont believe that they were doing anything out of the ordinary

I don't see a figure though, just the statement that the "high humidity" exists. Doesn't cost much to pick up cheap temp/humidity sensors to check it themselves.

From reading the report, the rear wall of the property is cold(internal plaster wall), it probably doesn't get any sun on the external side during the day. When you have warm air meeting a significantly colder surface like a wall, you get some condensation and possibly mold.

Insulation in this case is a all or nothing affair, doing it badly(bedroom) just makes it worse, as your insulating the wall with a high thermal mass against its only real source of heat. Anywhere there is a "cold bridge", eg thermal transfer, its going to be worse then just not doing it at all.

MicktheMan

The way I see it is all recommended physical changes to the property are on the landlord and the behavioural changes on the tenant.



(And am saying this both as a practitioner in mould remediation and a landlord of nearly 30 years)

Grumpypants

Apartment is poorly built. The insulation issues and poor ventilation are problems with the building and something the landlord should fix.

The tenant should be able to dry clothes on the rads, and have a shower and you shouldn't get condensation causing mould if the place was built correctly.

The landlord wants them to pay for renovating his apartment.

Mad_maxx

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So when a property is rented with a washing machine but no drier, what are tenants supposed to do?

clothes horse , anything but hanging clothes on radiators

Mad_maxx

Grumpypants wrote: »

Apartment is poorly built. The insulation issues and poor ventilation are problems with the building and something the landlord should fix.

The tenant should be able to dry clothes on the rads, and have a shower and you shouldn't get condensation causing mould if the place was built correctly.

The landlord wants them to pay for renovating his apartment.

no high level of building standards will negate the sin of drying clothes on rads

2lazytogetup

JustAThought wrote: »

Interesting. Im half way through sealing up a vent that causes a shocking draught against the advice of a professional. Might reconsider now. Never thought a sealed vent could cause dampness. Live & learn.

Yep and if there are asthma issues it's worse, I'd recommend against any sealing, keep the air fresh. A warm jumper to stop the draught annoying you

2lazytogetup

Doesn't sound like landlords fault unless all vents were closed. Windows should be opened regularly and clothes not dried on radiators.

Caranica

Mad_maxx wrote: »

clothes horse , anything but hanging clothes on radiators

Doesn't meet minimum rental standards

Mellor

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I agree with this, however if the quotes are for work to be done to the fabric of the gaff, or adding new gear, then its on the landlord.
It sound a kip

That's irrelevant. If the tenant had pulled doors off their hinges and put holes in walls. Repairs would be to the fabric, but would be tenants fault.
You need to look at the source. It doesn't look like the tenants have done anything out of the ordinary, so LL should foot the bill.

Who produce the report? As the suggestion to add more insulation over condensation is really awful. They also refered to mould as fungicide, which is pretty incompetent.

AndrewJRenko

Caranica wrote: »

Report the landlord for not meeting basic rental standards if there is no outside drying available.

Good to know, didn't realise it was mandatory. Obviously, standards have increased considerably since my renting days.

Mad_maxx

Caranica wrote: »

Doesn't meet minimum rental standards

a washer dryer is of course better but a horse is preferable any day of the week to hanging clothes on radiators