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    #92
    Brian201888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Brian201888


    fran38 wrote: »
    I got advice from the two village solicitors that it best to keep the head down and pray she moves out at the end of the month. The reason being is that either she or her mam may look to get legal advice andf then the issue of the covid eviction ban may pop up. Now, even though lodgers/licencees may not come under this rule, whatever solicitor they get may read it differently and then she'll really dig her heals in and the 31st March may look fanciful.


    Her getting legal advice won't matter one bit? Kick her out tomorrow and if she attempts to bring a case on it afterwards you can deal with that then and as she's a licensee that'll be the end of any case.


    Her solicitor can dig their heels in all they want, it won't matter you'll have your house back.


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    #93
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Brego888


    What does your other lodger think of the whole situation?
    Would they be on your side and a witness if needed to all her nonsense?


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    #94
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Brian201888 wrote: »
    Her getting legal advice won't matter one bit? Kick her out tomorrow and if she attempts to bring a case on it afterwards you can deal with that then and as she's a licensee that'll be the end of any case.


    Her solicitor can dig their heels in all they want, it won't matter you'll have your house back.

    Someone who gets mammy to fight her battles will hardly pay out for a solicitor.

    To thine own self be true



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    #95
    fran38
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭fran38


    Brego888 wrote: »
    What does your other lodger think of the whole situation?
    Would they be on your side and a witness if needed to all her nonsense?

    He's generally out working when this is happening. It does happen in the evening but she's smart enough to tone it down enough so he doesn't become aware of it. I've actually sent him a text message tonight to alert him to her behaviour and to explain why this is happening. He hasn't seen it yet.


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    #96
    Heckler
    Registered Users Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Heckler


    dublin49 wrote: »
    hide your rabbit

    I'm sorry to interrupt but i just came across this thread on the main page, started reading the thread, this comment and pissed myself. Thanks dublin49. I needed that laugh.


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    #97
    fran38
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭fran38


    OP here. So I rang the Garda station in the next town to me as its 24 hours to see what constitutes anti social behaviour in terms of renting rooms etc. I explained what is happening and I was told to present to that station in the morning, explain again to the Gardai on duty and they may accompany me to the house and they will tell the lady in question to vacate the property as she's not welcome there anymore. These are the exact words from the lady Garda who answered the phone.


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    #98
    fran38
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭fran38


    Heckler wrote: »
    I'm sorry to interrupt but i just came across this thread on the main page, started reading the thread, this comment and pissed myself. Thanks dublin49. I needed that laugh.

    I'm assuming the original poster thinks I'm female, I'm not :D


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    #99
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    fran38 wrote: »
    OP here. So I rang the Garda station in the next town to me as its 24 hours to see what constitutes anti social behaviour in terms of renting rooms etc. I explained what is happening and I was told to present to that station in the morning, explain again to the Gardai on duty and they may accompany me to the house and they will tell the lady in question to vacate the property as she's not welcome there anymore. These are the exact words from the lady Garda who answered the phone.
    Do it!
    You need to assert yourself. It'll feel amazing when you do.

    To thine own self be true



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    #100
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    fran38 wrote:
    The local Gardai believe she is covered by the covid ban so will not lift a finger. But I could try them again if I printed off the relevant legislation.


    I'll bet they've never even read anything want the ban. You must be living in a rural pocket that seems to be isolated if there are only two solicitors and neither seems to know anything about the legislation, having to Google it themselves.

    It's your home and the home is strongly protected in constitutional legislation.
    That's no possible way that you can be sued, it would not be worth your licencee paying money to try.


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    #101
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    It's all there on the citizens advice website. You're within your rights to get them out.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html#la4956


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    #102
    fran38
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭fran38


    CollyFlower wrote: »
    It's all there on the citizens advice website. You're within your rights to get them out.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html#la4956

    Thank you very much for that. Makes it very clear cut.


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    #103
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    fran38 wrote: »
    OP here. So I rang the Garda station in the next town to me as its 24 hours to see what constitutes anti social behaviour in terms of renting rooms etc. I explained what is happening and I was told to present to that station in the morning, explain again to the Gardai on duty and they may accompany me to the house and they will tell the lady in question to vacate the property as she's not welcome there anymore. These are the exact words from the lady Garda who answered the phone.

    Yessss, brilliant, now do it!!!!


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    #104
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    fran38 wrote: »
    The big question is, will the Gardai see it that way when I ask them to oversee the eviction? Anti Social can be interpreted a lot of ways or not at all. Being disruptive eg: Playing music excessively and at a loud volume, stomping her feet, banging doors, basically shouting down her phone, loud excessive singing along to songs that she has never done in her 1.5/2 years in my house. Will the Gardai see this as anti social or will they scoff at me?

    My understanding is the criminal context for anti social behaviour applies to persons not from the same household.


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    #105
    PetitPois89
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭PetitPois89


    fran38 wrote: »
    OP here. So I rang the Garda station in the next town to me as its 24 hours to see what constitutes anti social behaviour in terms of renting rooms etc. I explained what is happening and I was told to present to that station in the morning, explain again to the Gardai on duty and they may accompany me to the house and they will tell the lady in question to vacate the property as she's not welcome there anymore. These are the exact words from the lady Garda who answered the phone.

    Best of luck OP, hopefully the Gardai back you up and you’ll have your home back to normal soon


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    #106
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    My understanding is the criminal context for anti social behaviour applies to persons not from the same household.

    Your understanding is wrong then


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    #107
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    My understanding is the criminal context for anti social behaviour applies to persons not from the same household.

    The lodger is not form the same "household" she just lives in the same house. The household is a unit. More than one household could share a house.


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    #108
    fran38
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭fran38


    Just had a chat with the gards. It's not good. They won't back me up because of that old chestnut "it's a civil matter'. The term in the RTB Act described anti social behaviour in a civil regard exactly like her behaviour. As disgusting and despicable as it is, it's not seen as anti social in the criminal sense. A lot of toing and froing from me and the lady garda behind the counter but no can do.
    The only thing at my disposal now is to leave my key in the lock when/if she goes out and not allow her in other than to take her belongings. But leaving her and whoever is with her to collect her stuff (she has a ton of stuff) is frought with issues. I was told that the gards will not come to her aid neither because of the 'civil matter' rule.


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    #109
    mugsymugsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭mugsymugsy


    OP she is a guest in your home and has outstayed her welcome. Read the legislation and put her stuff into bags and leave it outside. Return her any deposit or rent outstanding. Call a locksmith and change the locks. Job done


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    #110
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    Your understanding is wrong then

    Care to tell me how so?


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    #111
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,513 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    fran38 wrote: »
    Just had a chat with the gards. It's not good. They won't back me up because of that old chestnut "it's a civil matter'. The term in the RTB Act described anti social behaviour in a civil regard exactly like her behaviour. As disgusting and despicable as it is, it's not seen as anti social in the criminal sense. A lot of toing and froing from me and the lady garda behind the counter but no can do.
    The only thing at my disposal now is to leave my key in the lock when/if she goes out and not allow her in other than to take her belongings. But leaving her and whoever is with her to collect her stuff (she has a ton of stuff) is frought with issues. I was told that the gards will not come to her aid neither because of the 'civil matter' rule.

    Man up, give her written notice to leave by midday Sunday, include a print out of the RTB section on licence agreements and inform her she is not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act nor restrictions on evictions during Covid period. Inform her that locks will be changed on Sunday and she will not have access after that. Stop whining and get on with it.


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    #112
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    fran38 wrote: »
    Yeah, im a live in LL

    Sorry OP keeps referring back to the RTA & RTB, do they own the property with the licensee or are they the head tenant?


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    #113
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    fran38 wrote: »
    Just had a chat with the gards. It's not good. They won't back me up because of that old chestnut "it's a civil matter'. The term in the RTB Act described anti social behaviour in a civil regard exactly like her behaviour. As disgusting and despicable as it is, it's not seen as anti social in the criminal sense. A lot of toing and froing from me and the lady garda behind the counter but no can do.
    The only thing at my disposal now is to leave my key in the lock when/if she goes out and not allow her in other than to take her belongings. But leaving her and whoever is with her to collect her stuff (she has a ton of stuff) is frought with issues. I was told that the gards will not come to her aid neither because of the 'civil matter' rule.

    I had sympathy for you at first but now you are just being foolish. Not allow her in other than collect her belongings is pure silly. As many other posters have said you leave her belongings outside or leave them at her parents as they only live around the corner. Once she’s out certainly don’t let her back in and definitively not anyone else. She was a guest that outstayed her welcome and now you’re letting her walk all over you.


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    #114
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    You are a homeowner with a licensee. You're not a landlord. Funk her out, she has no rights, even with Covid.


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    #115
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    James Bond Junior wrote: »
    You are a homeowner with a licensee. You're not a landlord. Funk her out, she has no rights, even with Covid.

    She actually does but the question is if she broke them eith "antisocial" behaviour.

    To thine own self be true



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    #116
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    She actually does but the question is if she broke them eith "antisocial" behaviour.

    Show me the legislation please.

    Read this, it doesn't include licensees as they ARE NOT TENANTS.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenancies_and_covid19.html#


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    #117
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Purple Mountain wrote:
    She actually does but the question is if she broke them eith "antisocial" behaviour.


    What rights does she have?
    Even for a licencee to go it's only suggested that they be given reasonable notice, but that isn't even defined anywhere.

    It's Wednesday today, I'd be telling her the locks are going to be changed on Friday and she has two days to remove her stuff, and sooner if the anti social stuff continues.


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    #118
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    This?

    But I still say her unbearable, pathetic behaviour where the home owner can't even sleep is enough to qualify as antisocial behaviour.
    Otherwise, home owners would have absolutely no protection from people like her.

    To thine own self be true



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    #119
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    This?

    But I still say her unbearable, pathetic behaviour where the home owner can't even sleep is enough to qualify as antisocial behaviour.
    Otherwise, home owners would have absolutely no protection from people like her.

    It was extended for another 3 month period to the 12th July last week.

    Note: while it does specifically address digs/rent-a-room situations, it states that people should exercise forbearance with one another- aka it is descriptive rather than prescriptive in nature. Aka- licensee situations are included in the legislation (for the first time) however, they are not on the same footing as a tenancy situation.

    Also- as far as I know- the extensions granted to the legislation (think we're on the third) only apply to those who are reliant on exchequer covid payments, they do not apply across the board.


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    #120
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    This?

    But I still say her unbearable, pathetic behaviour where the home owner can't even sleep is enough to qualify as antisocial behaviour.
    Otherwise, home owners would have absolutely no protection from people like her.

    Read it again. "It is understood that the intent if this provision is to address digs or rent a room style accommodation..."

    It says nothing about licensees being evicted as being prohibited, just it is understood the legislation can be applied but no definitive answer nor direction is given, because licensee's aren't covered, simple as that. Also I'm open to correction but I believe this legislation has since been lifted.


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    #121
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,176 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    James Bond Junior wrote: »
    Read it again. "It is understood that the intent if this provision is to address digs or rent a room style accommodation..."

    It says nothing about licensees being evicted as being prohibited, just it is understood the legislation can be applied but no definitive answer nor direction is given, because licensee's aren't covered, simple as that. Also I'm open to correction but I believe this legislation has since been lifted.

    The legislation seems to be in place while the 5km limit applies.
    I'd be taking my chances anyway and have the antisocial behaviour argument ready because theres not a cat in hells chance, I'd tolerate that bullying in my home.

    To thine own self be true



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