Mandatory quarantine hotels - when and how much notice

is_that_so

beertons wrote: »

What are they here for then?

Some of them could be coming back to their legal residence. We're aping Britain on this, at least without the 10 years in prison!

Red Silurian

Dermot224 wrote: »

What happens if someone says they don't have the money to pay for their quarantine hotel?

Tell them to make plans to come back soon or preferably after the pandemic

Hotel quarantine is a method of discouraging travel, nothing more, nothing less

Red Silurian

Del Griffith wrote: »

RunningFlyer wrote: »

Have I read correctly that the “mandatory quarantine” only applies if the traveller does not have a negative PCR test?

That seems to be what the media are saying anyway... haven’t seen the actual legislation..

That would make too much sense. Knowing the way Ireland is doing things at the moment it's probably for people with a negative test.

If this were true then I could fly from Paris to cork and sit beside somebody who didn't get a test for 90 minutes, he'd have to quarantine but I wouldn't despite probably picking up an infection?

Would that not completely defeat the purpose of hotel quarantine?

davetherave

Dermot224 wrote: »

What happens if someone says they don't have the money to pay for their quarantine hotel?

All the information you need is in the text of the act.


(5) For the purposes of subsection (2), an applicable traveller shall—
(a) prior to his or her arrival in the State, pre-book a place in a designated facility,
(b) present himself or herself—
(i) where his or her arrival in the State is at a port or an airport, to a
relevant person, an approved person or a member of the Garda
Síochána, or

(4) An applicable traveller shall be subject to one or more charges in
respect of the costs incurred in the provision of—
(a) the accommodation, maintenance and any treatment provided to the
applicable traveller and any dependant person who is in the
designated facility with that traveller in accordance with section
38B(9) while he or she and any such dependant person are in a
designated facility, and
(b) any services referred to in section 38H provided in respect of him
or her and, where applicable, a dependant person.


(5) The costs referred to in subsection (4) shall be payable by the
applicable traveller in accordance with regulations made under section
38G and may be recovered as a simple contract debt in any court of
competent jurisdiction from the applicable traveller concerned

Some of them could be coming back to their legal residence. We're aping Britain on this, at least without the 10 years in prison!

That's right, they could. And if you have a read through the text you will see some important information.

Starting with a definition.

‘place of residence’ means—

(a)where a Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller, the place of residence (other than a designated facility) specified on the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form,

(b) where a Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller and the only place of residence specified was a designated facility or where no Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller—

(1)in relation to a person who is ordinarily resident in the State, the home in which the person ordinarily resides or if the person does not have a home, such other premises (other than a designated facility), if any, at which he or she is currently residing, whether on a permanent or temporary basis

(2) in relation to a person who is not ordinarily resident in the State, the premises (other than a designated facility), in the State, if any, at which he or she is currently residing or intends to reside after arriving in the State, whether on a permanent or temporary basis;

So either where they put on the Passenger Locator Form, or if they did not complete a PLF then where they currently reside.



Now then. If a person from a country not on a list shows up without a negative test result:

(6) Where an applicable traveller who presents himself or herself in accordance with subsection (5)(b) is a person referred to in subsection
(1)(b)(ii) without the result of an RT-PCR test in accordance with the requirements of any regulations on the basis that the result shows that
Covid-19 or the virus SARS-CoV-2 is detected, he or she shall—

(a) as soon as practicable after his or her arrival in the designated facility be assessed by a registered medical practitioner who is a
medical officer of health, and
(b) where that officer is satisfied, having regard to all the circumstances, that the person can effectively isolate in his or her place of residence, be discharged from the facility.

is_that_so

davetherave wrote: »

All the information you need is in the text of the act.


(5) For the purposes of subsection (2), an applicable traveller shall—
(a) prior to his or her arrival in the State, pre-book a place in a designated facility,
(b) present himself or herself—
(i) where his or her arrival in the State is at a port or an airport, to a
relevant person, an approved person or a member of the Garda
Síochána, or

(4) An applicable traveller shall be subject to one or more charges in
respect of the costs incurred in the provision of—
(a) the accommodation, maintenance and any treatment provided to the
applicable traveller and any dependant person who is in the
designated facility with that traveller in accordance with section
38B(9) while he or she and any such dependant person are in a
designated facility, and
(b) any services referred to in section 38H provided in respect of him
or her and, where applicable, a dependant person.


(5) The costs referred to in subsection (4) shall be payable by the
applicable traveller in accordance with regulations made under section
38G and may be recovered as a simple contract debt in any court of
competent jurisdiction from the applicable traveller concerned




That's right, they could. And if you have a read through the text you will see some important information.

Starting with a definition.

‘place of residence’ means—

(a)where a Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller, the place of residence (other than a designated facility) specified on the Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form,

(b) where a Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller and the only place of residence specified was a designated facility or where no Covid-19 Passenger Locator Form was completed in respect of the applicable traveller—

(1)in relation to a person who is ordinarily resident in the State, the home in which the person ordinarily resides or if the person does not have a home, such other premises (other than a designated facility), if any, at which he or she is currently residing, whether on a permanent or temporary basis

(2) in relation to a person who is not ordinarily resident in the State, the premises (other than a designated facility), in the State, if any, at which he or she is currently residing or intends to reside after arriving in the State, whether on a permanent or temporary basis;

So either where they put on the Passenger Locator Form, or if they did not complete a PLF then where they currently reside.



Now then. If a person from a country not on a list shows up without a negative test result:

(6) Where an applicable traveller who presents himself or herself in accordance with subsection (5)(b) is a person referred to in subsection
(1)(b)(ii) without the result of an RT-PCR test in accordance with the requirements of any regulations on the basis that the result shows that
Covid-19 or the virus SARS-CoV-2 is detected, he or she shall—

(a) as soon as practicable after his or her arrival in the designated facility be assessed by a registered medical practitioner who is a
medical officer of health, and
(b) where that officer is satisfied, having regard to all the circumstances, that the person can effectively isolate in his or her place of residence, be discharged from the facility.

Thanks for that. So just brief internment if you have somewhere else to go!

Del Griffith

Ireland will also be imprisoning the vaccinated.

"Travellers who are fully vaccinated will not be exempt from quarantining."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-expected-to-secure-quarantine-hotel-owners-from-any-covid-19-legal-cases-40176070.html

faceman

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Is your family member from one of the red listed countries? Mandatory quarantine seems like a box ticking exercise so the govt can pretend they closed the border without actually closing it.

It only applies to a jumble of African and south American countries, the majority of which dont have direct flights here.

It doesnt apply to US, UK, EU and there is also a further exemption for anyone travelling for essential or "logistical" work eg food production, healthcare work etc .

Would your family member meet the criteria for exemption ?

Austria is on the list and if NPHET are monitoring variants as they claim, Finland could go on it too given the new strain there undetectable by PCR

Dermot224 wrote: »

What happens if someone says they don't have the money to pay for their quarantine hotel?

I read somewhere that there will be repayment plan options for those who can't

caveat emptor

Dermot224 wrote: »

What happens if someone says they don't have the money to pay for their quarantine hotel?

What happens if someone can't afford a flight?

Supercell

People are coming here of their own free will knowing that they will have to stay in a hotel and fork out €2500, what's the problem? Hardly a prison if you are willingly walking in knowing you will have to fork out for your (luxury) stay, their choice to do so. Our government is finally doing what's right to protect the public, should have being doing this since last year.

Golfman64

Del Griffith wrote: »

Ireland will also be imprisoning the vaccinated.

"Travellers who are fully vaccinated will not be exempt from quarantining."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-expected-to-secure-quarantine-hotel-owners-from-any-covid-19-legal-cases-40176070.html

So let me get this straight, a passenger from Austria with a negative PCR test and whom is fully vaccinated will be forced into a quarantine hotel whilst someone who tests positive for Covid-19 in Ireland is under no legal obligation to isolate either at home or in a managed facility?

I think we have reached peak incompetence and insanity in our management of this!

a_squirrelman

Golfman64 wrote: »

So let me get this straight, a passenger from Austria with a negative PCR test and whom is fully vaccinated will be forced into a quarantine hotel whilst someone who tests positive for Covid-19 in Ireland is under no legal obligation to isolate either at home or in a managed facility?

I think we have reached peak incompetence and insanity in our management of this!

Yep, and peak insanity from the public who have tunnel vision on this.

Del Griffith

Del Griffith wrote: »

Ireland will also be imprisoning the vaccinated.

"Travellers who are fully vaccinated will not be exempt from quarantining."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-expected-to-secure-quarantine-hotel-owners-from-any-covid-19-legal-cases-40176070.html

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single day while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

Golfman64

Golfman64 wrote: »

I think we have reached peak incompetence and insanity in our management of this!

I believe it was Varadkar who smugly said "There is no limit" or words to that effect.

mickdw

BringBackMick wrote: »

Not even Hungary or Poland are implementing these such measures!

Cannot believe it was allowed go this far- it is blatantly against EU Law to imprison an EU citizen for visiting the state

Ah bull crap. Surely you can restrict movement for public health reasons. If so, then surely you can prevent such eu citizen from travelling to ireland or allow them to travel if they agree to stay in hotel for 14 days. This is not prison, they are coming by choice to the facility.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Ah bull crap. Surely you can restrict movement for public health reasons. If so, then surely you can prevent such eu citizen from travelling to ireland or allow them to travel if they agree to stay in hotel for 14 days. This is not prison, they are coming by choice to the facility.

Nobody is going by choice to a facility. They are going to the facility because if they don't, they risk jail and a hefty fine.

Perhaps you mean they are traveling to Ireland by choice. Indeed, some people - including Irish citizens - may be traveling to Ireland by choice as is their blood right. Some may be traveling for other reasons -- such as to see their children or attend to a personal crisis; perhaps they lost their job abroad and have to return to their own country. Almost all of these people will be healthy and they will still be interned at great expense, all to appease the lowest common denominator of idiot.

a_squirrelman

mickdw wrote: »

Ah bull crap. Surely you can restrict movement for public health reasons. If so, then surely you can prevent such eu citizen from travelling to ireland or allow them to travel if they agree to stay in hotel for 14 days. This is not prison, they are coming by choice to the facility.

While I'm against mandatory hotel quarantine I think the posters saying it is illegal or against EU law are wrong.
I believe free movement can be halted on the grounds of a public health emergency, and the EU can do sweet FA about it.
Some countries had mandatory state quarantine a year ago, Slovakia specifically had it for around a month last March. But they quickly put a stop to it and made it mandatory quarantine at home.

Edit: The EU page I found on "Free movement of persons" says:
"Restrictions on the right of entry and the right of residence: Union citizens or members of their family may be expelled from the host Member State on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Guarantees are provided to ensure that such decisions are not taken on economic grounds, comply with the proportionality principle and are based on personal conduct, among other considerations. "

So if you can be expelled I guess it can be said if you want to come you need to quarantine.

Oranage2

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

I feel the same way as you though I'm not in a red zone country. It seems like a big money making scam by the government to line their mates pockets. I could understand them doing it a year ago as part of some strategy but It makes no sense now to do it when the vaccine is out.

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

I feel the same way as you though I'm not in a red zone country. It seems like a big money making scam by the government to line their mates pockets. I could understand them doing it a year ago as part of some strategy but It makes no sense now to do it when the vaccine is out.

For me the money is the least bad part of it, though it is appalling.
The worst part of this, for me, is the destruction of civil liberties with hardly a protest made, and the terrible precedents that are being set. Covid will go away eventually, but politicians and civil servants will long remember the things they were able to get away with.

This will only get worse if far left parties come into power after the next election. SF and co. are hot for these restrictions because their whole ideology and instinct is collectivist and communal.

I honestly don't know where to turn politically for support. FG and FF are the makers of these awful policies. The backbench government TDs won't even raise concerns as parliamentary questions, for fear of the Whip.

The Opposition parties favor even more draconian restrictions.

In my constituency, the only Independent I could approach is someone who proudly promoted his view that armed soldiers should patrol the internment facilities to ensure obedience.

chinkaroo

I've read a lot of people saying that this will be useless as people will just fly to Belfast and drive into the Republic. What's the legalities around this? Would they face fines if caught ( other than being outside their 5k)

is_that_so

mickdw wrote: »

Ah bull crap. Surely you can restrict movement for public health reasons. If so, then surely you can prevent such eu citizen from travelling to ireland or allow them to travel if they agree to stay in hotel for 14 days. This is not prison, they are coming by choice to the facility.

Invoking the furriner excuse doesn't make it any more credible.

Randomly selecting a group of people deemed to be a risk to the State to be interned for 14 days is something that was done 50 years ago. That the defence forces are also involved completes the symbolism.

It would be beyond ironic to find someone on exiting said facility later testing positive from a community case!

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single day while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

Not sure what the FG view is now but they said no to quarantines all of last year - "not what we do" was the message. This is certainly driven by a FF "put manners on you" approach. With the opposition all fully behind the idea they can easily outnumber any doubters on it.

newuser99999

chinkaroo wrote: »

I've read a lot of people saying that this will be useless as people will just fly to Belfast and drive into the Republic. What's the legalities around this? Would they face fines if caught ( other than being outside their 5k)

I’ll be using it in the summer if the €2000 fine is still in place.

From my understanding you can only be fined the €100 non essential fine. There is no way of tracking or monitoring Irish passengers who use Belfast

mickdw

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single day while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

The only thing i see side tracking the vaccine program is a random variant. I think the hotel quarantine is very much needed for now. If its a choice between everyone being imprisoned in their homes long term or international travel requiring 14 days in a hotel, im all for the hotel quarantine.
If we can work with the north and uk re those who must quarantine, we could have reasonably free movement between ireland and uk which would be a big help.
Being vaccinated doesnt make you safe where the major fear is a variant that the vaccine isnt effective against. That is unfortunate but thats how it is.
Its unfortunate but those in red list countries just need to understand that they wont be able to get to funerals etc in ireland for this spell.
Anyone business related can do it remotely or else comply with quarantine.
There are few that really need to travel so the hotel quarantine numbers should be very limited.

DaSilva

mickdw wrote: »

Being vaccinated doesnt make you safe where the major fear is a variant that the vaccine isnt effective against. That is unfortunate but thats how it is.
Its unfortunate but those in red list countries just need to understand that they wont be able to get to funerals etc in ireland for this spell.
Anyone business related can do it remotely or else comply with quarantine.
There are few that really need to travel so the hotel quarantine numbers should be very limited.

There is no evidence that there is any variant that evades the vaccines, only fear. It is also highly likely there are other variants out there in countries that are not doing adequate surveillance and as a result they go unpunished. It's only the fearful ignorant and the media who profit who are supporting such narratives.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single day while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

I feel exactly the same, there is really no political party that has taken a scientific approach to this whole situation, its all about appearing as tough on covid as possible to placate the imbeciles.

BringBackMick

This was enacted simply to appease populist pitchforkers who were angry and needed somebody to lash out on.

It simply doesn't have a leg to stand on and will be easily appealed.

Disgraceful legislation, shame on all those who voted for it.

Del Griffith

mickdw wrote: »

Being vaccinated doesnt make you safe where the major fear is a variant that the vaccine isnt effective against.

The scariest part about this entire covid situation is that there's people out there that genuinely think like this now, unironically.

It can be broken down to: we could get another virus some day so better tuck tale and hide forever, just in case.

If you are scared of something that doesn't exist how will you get back to normal? Do you not see an issue with this?
There will always be a chance of some danger out there, there was long before Covid-19 and there will be long after it.

They've done a good job of terrifying people. About the only good job they have done unfortunately.

BringBackMick

BringBackMick wrote: »

This was enacted simply to appease populist pitchforkers who were angry and needed somebody to lash out on.

It simply doesn't have a leg to stand on and will be easily appealed.

Disgraceful legislation, shame on all those who voted for it.

Can anyone point to the list showing how each TD voted?

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep. Irish citizen here, living abroad in one of the category 2 countries.

I am vaccinated and have a certificate from the UAE Ministry of Health which names my vaccine, the dates it was given, my DOB, full name, and my passport number.
I have an empty house in Ireland where I'd be very happy to quarantine.
And I am happy to do as many PCR tests as required.

That all counts for nothing.

So, if I need to travel to my own country, my government will confine me to a "facility", even if I am well. If I do a PCR test every single day while in the facility and all turn out negative, I will still need to stay there for 14 days, on pain of one month's imprisonment.

Due to Covid restrictions, my own country will also not grant a visa to my wife of nine years, who is the mother of two Irish citizens, both below 5 years old.

I feel utterly abandoned by the state. I have lost all trust in it. I've been a FG voter since 2002. I am beyond disgusted with FG -- Varadkar, McEntee, my local FG TD. Utter cowards. The former two won't even acknowledge my emails. The latter is too spineless to raise this in the form of a parliamentary question.

Abandoned is a suitable phrase to use. I feel the same as an Irish citizen living abroad awaiting a visa renewal for my country of residence which can't be processed due to ireland not issuing passports. I can't even have a proper driver's license anymore due to my visa being expired. (Luckily my state has an option for undocumented people which I basically am now, not all do)

I applied for a renewal last year before Christmas and now my passport has expired so I can't travel home even if I wanted to. Despite what the articles say, they are not offering an urgent service for citizens abroad, its total bull. Visas, passports and the like should be considered essential. I hope you and your wife's situation is resolved soon

pwurple

The problem with using vaccination status for anything here is fraud.

I don’t know how it is in UAE, but here, it is a little card like you get for loyalty stamps at a doughnut shop. Incredibly easy to fake.

There was an idiotic opposition to tracking or identifying peoples vaccine status electronically. It leaves us with this current situation.

Peregrinus

Del Griffith wrote: »

The scariest part about this entire covid situation is that there's people out there that genuinely think like this now, unironically.

It can be broken down to: we could get another virus some day so better tuck tale and hide forever, just in case.

If you are scared of something that doesn't exist how will you get back to normal? Do you not see an issue with this?
There will always be a chance of some danger out there, there was long before Covid-19 and there will be long after it.

I think you're missing the point, which is not that we need to be scared forever.

The point is that the protection conferred by vaccination is collective as much, or more than, individual. Once you're vaccinated you'll have a fair degree of protection, but you'll have much better protection once a critical mass of the population is vaccinated. As long as there are significant reservoirs of infection and transmission within the population, the conditions for mutation and new variants exist, and therefore new variants will emerge against which your vaccination may not protect you (or, it follows, anyone who comes in contact with you, should you be so unfortunate as to contract a new variant).

Hence a focus on vaccine passports and relaxing restrictions for vaccinated individuals is misplaced, and possibly dangerous. Until the vaccine program is largely complete, everyone - vaccinated or not - still needs to be very careful, and a fair degree of precaution will likely still be needed.

Conversely, once the vaccination program has reached the bulk of the population, then even the unvaccinated will enjoy a good degree of protection. So this is definitely not a case of "we need to be scared for ever"; more a casee of "we need to think realistically about when we can stop taking precautions, and not default to simplistic assumptions or wishful thinking".