If we had similar laws to US would you own a gun?

SeaFields

ShatterAlan wrote: »

AFAIK you can own either a shotgun or a .22 rifle in Ireland and that's it.

That's incorrect.

Feisar

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Then learn some quality martial arts. Get fit and strong. Develop some self-defence and fighting techniques. 12 months of boxing and/or karate training and you won't be Bruce Lee or Mike Tyson but you'll have the confidence and reflexes and stamina to easily put 2 or even 3 assholes on the floor if they try to mess with you.

Hahahahaha

BattleCorp

Feisar wrote: »

Hahahahaha

I thought the same when I read the post.

dulpit

Heckler wrote: »

Handguns aren't illegal. I have one as do many more. They can only be licensed to you if you are a member of a gun club and only for target shooting. There are no new centrefire pistol licenses being issued but if you owned one before the centrefire ban you were allowed keep it.

Also thousand of people own rifles of a higher calibre than .22

Are you allowed keep them at home? And if something was to happen (say attacked or whatever) and you shot someone with one, would there be any difference against if you had used a shotgun?

BattleCorp

dulpit wrote: »

Are you allowed keep them at home? And if something was to happen (say attacked or whatever) and you shot someone with one, would there be any difference against if you had used a shotgun?

No difference. It's a licenced firearm and you'll be in front of a judge no matter what firearm you use if you shoot someone or threaten someone with it.

Guy near me had a cokehead battering down his front door at 3am with a hammer. He got his gun and told yer man to sod off. Cokehead kept battering away so the guy near me fired a shot into the ground about 20 feet away from the cokehead. Cokehead got the message and fcuked off. Gardai heard about the incident and took the gun off the guy near me.

Moral of the story, guns aren't for self defence here in Ireland.

1874

Liverpool create your account wrote: »

Incorrect information as per usual by the anti gun parade.

How can they be so against something but know so little about it.

dulpit wrote: »

Are you allowed keep them at home? And if something was to happen (say attacked or whatever) and you shot someone with one, would there be any difference against if you had used a shotgun?

Look, Legal firearms in Ireland are permitted for sporting purposes,
The situation you are describing is extreme
The thread is moot, as we dont have the same laws as the US and we never will, while there are some entitlements to self defence, any sensible person will let someone take their stuff as it is just stuff in the end.

dulpit

BattleCorp wrote: »

Moral of the story, guns aren't for self defence here in Ireland.

This makes me happy.

My personal opinion is that guns for sporting purposes are okay (but heavily restricted/etc as they are now - I hope), anything else less so.

fits

Was in army reserves so have had training with a range of weapons. I’m quite good with them too. However they unnerve me and a gun is the last thing I’d want to hand in a tense situation. Husband has a shotgun for pheasants but I have no interest in it. I Would prefer to have a big dog.

ElJaguar

dulpit wrote: »

Hey,

I was watching an interview recently and one of the people being interviewed mentioned offhand that he owned a shotgun. This was a bunch of liberal Americans, living in California (I think) and the offhand manner which they mentioned their shotgun for home security, it was like me saying I have a house alarm.

It got me wondering, if for some bizarre reason we adopted some of the US's laws re. gun ownership - would you own one? If so, why?

Yes, I would. If everyone else had access to a firearm I would buy one.

However, I don't think American style gun laws are a good idea anywhere.

Feisar

1874 wrote: »

Look, Legal firearms in Ireland are permitted for sporting purposes,
The situation you are describing is extreme
The thread is moot, as we dont have the same laws as the US and we never will, while there are some entitlements to self defence, any sensible person will let someone take their stuff as it is just stuff in the end.

What, you don't have a shower gun!?!

https://concealednation.org/2019/07/man-breaks-into-house-while-homeowner-taking-shower-close-by-shower-gun-comes-in-handy/

Snickers Man

Stovepipe wrote: »

I dont know if they still do it but in Switzerland, every male of military age was required to serve in the militia or do a stint in the Army,which has only a small cadre of full timers but a large proportion of people on national service,so everybody had a military firearm at home,in a secure gun safe; everybody trained on them frequently and shooting is very popular there. Same in Sweden,Finland,Norway and Denmark. Huge amounts of hunting rifles held there and lots of well trained people to handle them.

Two things to say about that.
1) Switzerland has a high gun homicide rate....by European standards. Compared to the US, though, it's minimal. I think suicide accounts for much of it.
2) The Swiss own guns to protect their nation, sovereignty and independence not to act as comfort blankets against the overpowering fear that somebody is going to "invade" your house and slaughter you all in your beds.

Their laws reflect that. You can NOT bear arms in your own supposed defence in Switzerland. You can NOT walk around with a loaded pistol in your waistband with the intent of using it on some black kid you don't recognise in your neighbourhood just because he's got his hoodie up during a rain shower and walking around erratically engrossed in a phone conversation with his girlfriend. (See Trayvon Martin case)

If any American gun advocate quotes Switzerland as an example to follow, then just say: "Fine! You regulate your own gun usage the way the Swiss do and see what the NRA says!"

(They'll probably say "Get outta here you Goddam, Euroweenie, pinko, pantywaist, freedom hater, blah blah blah.....")

Brian?

ShyMets wrote: »

Was that in Ireland. As handguns are banned

My Granny had a loaded 38 revolver in her underwear drawer until she moved to a home in 1999. It's legality didn't matter a damn to her.

The pistol was relic of the civil war given to her by her older brother who fought for the IRA.

Snickers Man

ShatterAlan wrote: »

The crime rate in the US has been falling for years. And they don't have a high crime rate overall just in deprived areas or areas where knobheads are allowed to have guns. Kind of a chicken and egg situation wouldn't you say.

And yet a thousand people are shot dead every year in the US.....by cops!

So is that a factor in reducing the crime rate or a reflection of the fact that crime is still extraordinarily high?

Or does it show that cops are granted great latitude in using guns on, er, "suspects" in the interests of their own safety?

The latter case would give lie to the oft-quoted argument in favour of universal gun rights, at least by those in the States, which says that it is to safeguard the populace against "government tyranny".

How's that working for you?

50 cops killed by bad guys every year, give or take; 1,000 people SHOT dead by cops.

bocaman

This is a very interesting question. Given that every nutcase would have equal and easy access to a gun in order to defend myself I'd have to reluctantly say yes. Am in a belligerent mood at the moment as regard law enforcement. My house was recently broken little taken but much damage done.

Iguarantee

12gauge dave wrote: »

I already own a firearm here in Ireland as many do.

Irish law allows firearm possession on may-issue basis. With approximately seven civilian firearms per 100 people, Ireland is the 107th most armed country in the world.

Maybe you could answer this:


I live in a (small) town.

I’d like to learn to shoot and maybe one day own a firearm.

As I’m neither a farmer nor a hunter, where do I stand in terms of firearm ownership eligibility?

BattleCorp

Iguarantee wrote: »

Maybe you could answer this:


I live in a (small) town.

I’d like to learn to shoot and maybe one day own a firearm.

As I’m neither a farmer nor a hunter, where do I stand in terms of firearm ownership eligibility?

It depends. What do you want the firearm for?

CalamariFritti

Yes I would, of course.

Simply because having such relaxed laws about gun ownership leads to a lot more guns being around which leads to a lot more guns being available to every idiot out there including criminals which means I need one myself.

Yes guns are bad and they can easily escalate things but at the same time I wouldnt want to be the only guy without one if it came to that.

Iguarantee

BattleCorp wrote: »

It depends. What do you want the firearm for?

Learning to shoot for the skill itself, target shooting.

I imagine clay pigeon or sport shooting would be the closest match.

Snickers Man

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yes I would, of course.

Simply because having such relaxed laws about gun ownership leads to a lot more guns being around which leads to a lot more guns being available to every idiot out there including criminals which means I need one myself.

Yes guns are bad and they can easily escalate things but at the same time I wouldnt want to be the only guy without one if it came to that.

I suppose that's a fair enough answer to the question as posed. Perhaps a better question, or at least a follow-up question, might be "Would you prefer if we had American-style gun laws here, rather than the ones we currently have?"

My answer would be "Hell no!"
But then I'm not a gun owner. I wonder what existing Irish gun owners would think.

BattleCorp

Iguarantee wrote: »

Learning to shoot for the skill itself, target shooting.

I imagine clay pigeon or sport shooting would be the closest match.

If you want to get a gun for clay pigeon shooting, then that's a valid reason for getting a shotgun. You'd probably need to join a clay pigeon shooting club and then apply for a firearms licence.

Would you get a licence, I can't say. It depends on if the Gardai deem you to be safe with a firearm. If you are an alcoholic/drug addict/have mental illness issues, criminal record etc., then they wouldn't be inclined to give you a licence. The Gardai term is that you mustn't be of 'intemperate habits'.

tomtucker81

Iguarantee wrote: »

Learning to shoot for the skill itself, target shooting.

I imagine clay pigeon or sport shooting would be the closest match.

Wait till lockdown is over, find your nearest range and go shoot some clays with a shotgun or maybe some targets with a 22 rifle. Most ranges/clubs would cater for people trying the sport.
If you like it, then consider membership and purchasing a gun for you to use. Most likely a shotgun for clays in this case.

Anyone at the range/club could advise you on the steps to take and the laws around it.

We're totally different from the States in how guns are licenced, the application process and the legality surrounding their storage and use.

BattleCorp

Snickers Man wrote: »

But then I'm not a gun owner. I wonder what existing Irish gun owners would think.

I'd like a happy medium, somewhere between the two.

teediddlyeye

I'd be of the very clichéd opinion that criminals will always get there hands on them. In fact Ireland is a fantastic example of that IMHO.

Just look at the regency hotel shooting, 2 lads with AK47s, which according to a gun dealer I was chatting to in the US are difficult enough to abtain over there. Never mind here where Joe soap has to jump through hoops just for a double barrel.

I think small caliber firearms should be permitted for self defence but only for in the home, not to be carried on the streets. Provided the applicant passes a number of strict requirements including competence training and legel training.

Its ridiculous we're not even allowed carry non lethal items for defence, pepper spray, tasers etc.

Absolutely I'd have several if we had similar laws to the US, more for an interest in shooting than paranoia for self defence.

Love shooting and had planed on joining the local range after I moved into the area recently, until like everything else the virus put a stop to that!

monkeybutter

teediddlyeye wrote: »

I'd be of the very clichéd opinion that criminals will always get there hands on them. In fact Ireland is a fantastic example of that IMHO.

Just look at the regency hotel shooting, 2 lads with AK47s, which according to a gun dealer I was chatting to in the US are difficult enough to abtain over there. Never mind here where Joe soap has to jump through hoops just for a double barrel.

I think small caliber firearms should be permitted for self defence but only for in the home, not to be carried on the streets. Provided the applicant passes a number of strict requirements including competence training and legel training.

Its ridiculous we're not even allowed carry non lethal items for defence, pepper spray, tasers etc.

Absolutely I'd have several if we had similar laws to the US, more for an interest in shooting than paranoia for self defence.

Love shooting and had planed on joining the local range after I moved into the area recently, until like everything else the virus put a stop to that!

everyone knows that criminals can get their hands on guns, but why make it easier for them

feck it even the RA had a hard time getting guns into the country

but think, i rob your house I take the gun you were keep for defense, easy peasy

on the carrying for defense

its because how do you distinguish someone carrying a taser or a firearm for defense from someone who is planning to use it for attack


i mean someone who is looking to cause harm with the object is far more likely to use it and get the jump on you and shoot you because well you could be packing heat

and you are far more likely to shoot yourself in the foot in the panic to get it out

Feisar

Snickers Man wrote: »

I suppose that's a fair enough answer to the question as posed. Perhaps a better question, or at least a follow-up question, might be "Would you prefer if we had American-style gun laws here, rather than the ones we currently have?"

My answer would be "Hell no!"
But then I'm not a gun owner. I wonder what existing Irish gun owners would think.

I have five to my name. It's not American gun laws that I would have any opinion on, more their attitude to guns. It seems to come from a place of fear. I posted a link above for fun but it goes to show one the attitude. Yer man had a gun in his shower in a tupperware in case there was a break in while he was in the shower. OK so it actually happened so he was in some way proven to be right however can you imagine living with that kind of fear? And then reading in a US shooting magazine once "a handgun for defence, ya I want a bore I can damn near crawl through", or words to that effect. As in a 45 over a 9mm for that 1 in (I don't know) 100,000 chance of a confrontation that they've built up in their head. I wonder how many people in the US that have concealed carry permits shoot themselves by accident vs actually successfully defend themselves? I love guns but as you can see I have a dim view of the US's situation.

In terms of protecting oneself prevention is better than the cure. Situational awareness plus a shopping list will keep one out of bother better than anything else.

On a slightly related note. My friends managed to source me a rather powerful and rare bow.

Since there seems to be people in the chat that know a lot about weapon laws in Ireland - could any tell me just how legal or illegal by owning it is? And is there anything in particular I can do to make it more legal without having to give up or destroy my new best toy?

Feisar

Deleted User wrote: »

On a slightly related note. My friends managed to source me a rather powerful and rare bow.

Since there seems to be people in the chat that know a lot about weapon laws in Ireland - could any tell me just how legal or illegal by owning it is? And is there anything in particular I can do to make it more legal without having to give up or destroy my new best toy?

Bow or crossbow?

Feisar

Feisar wrote: »

Bow or crossbow?

Bow. It is the oneida kestral. Comic books nerds will know it as the bow that "Green Arrow" uses in the TV show "Arrow" over recent years of the show.

FileNotFound

I'd have one just because i could, sure the home house had guns for years.

All gone now alas, but yeah I would get a few and shoot down the fields like a big redneck.

Wouldn't carry one in public though - at least i don't think i would.

1874

monkeybutter wrote: »

its because how do you distinguish someone carrying a taser or a firearm for defense from someone who is planning to use it for attack


i mean someone who is looking to cause harm with the object is far more likely to use it and get the jump on you and shoot you because well you could be packing heat

A Taser could be luminous yellow or a chequered/hatched yellow-black striping and while there are pink (or unusually coloured) firearms available in the US, I dont think they are prevelant elsewhere and imo to help distinguish them from toys, I think firearms should not be of certain colours. That might seems extreme, but it could/should be a big highly visible indicator if an item is a toy or a firearm.
So real firearms should not be pink or dayglow yellow/green/orange imo.
Edit, while there are people with unusually even nicely decorated/coloured/tricked firearms, it seems unlikely they will be out and about brandishing them on the street.


I think it would make sense to have specifically non lethal weapons in a specific colour scheme to help distinguish them, day glow yellow/orange/green.
Do I think people should have access to them? maybe, maybe not, I can see the pros and cons. Id prefer if people were allowed have non lethal weapons for self defence, but then that means people might obtain them for offence, so I think it would be sensible to allow a person to get training and a licence to carry a non lethal weapon, but it should not be of a type that looks like a firearm in colour or shape.

Not having a licence but having such an item should be a serious offence (which it is) but it could be a viable self defence weapon. That said they will still fall into the hands of people who intend to use them for nefarious purposes and it doesnt stop them taking such an item off a person and using it against them.


That said, Tasers type items can be ineffective, I think there are types with prongs propelled on a wire and I dont think they should be available as they have the ability to be used at range as an offensive weapon.


Possibly handheld stun guns with electrode type receptacles should be allowed with training and licencing.

I wouldnt see the issue with someone having pepper spray, its not significantly an offensive weapon, more a deterrent to repel an attacker. I think that could make sense, but Im open to criticism/objections on that.

Similar stuff is used on bears, training and licence it imo