Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

Leg End Reject

BettyS wrote: »

I find it a bit frustrating. Harry barely scraped his A-levels (remember the art teacher debacle). He has zero training in the domain of mental health. As another poster pointed out, he will be handsomely paid for his “work” in the area. Ultimately, it is great to draw attention to mental health. It is a real problem. However, between financially benefiting from the Oprah documentary (indirectly, before I am corrected), and then the Netflix series, and this new job advocating good mental health, when does it become cynical cashing in? Please don’t misunderstand me. I wholeheartedly support them discussing their plight. But the lucrative contracts make me squirm a little. Am I being harsh?

The interview was advertising to get more deals, I fully believe it was cynical and designed to promote them.

The claw back from the private wedding claim to their latest statement might be the start of the truth coming out. No mention of them exaggerating or lying I notice.

Kivaro

Neyite wrote: »

Well in my head they are now the Duke and Duchess of Netflix so no, I don't think you are being harsh there Betty

I believe that Amazon Prime will show the first season and it will be a comedy along the lines of ............ the Dukes of Hazzard. :pac:

Sardonicat

BettyS wrote: »

I find it a bit frustrating. Harry barely scraped his A-levels (remember the art teacher debacle). He has zero training in the domain of mental health. As another poster pointed out, he will be handsomely paid for his “work” in the area. Ultimately, it is great to draw attention to mental health. It is a real problem. However, between financially benefiting from the Oprah documentary (indirectly, before I am corrected), and then the Netflix series, and this new job advocating good mental health, when does it become cynical cashing in? Please don’t misunderstand me. I wholeheartedly support them discussing their plight. But the lucrative contracts make me squirm a little. Am I being harsh?

No, you're not being harsh. Speaking as someone with depression I find the whole 'advocating good mental health' shtick empty and pointless nonsense. While it is of course great that the stigma around mental and emotional disorders is slowly being eroded I think a lot of these positive messages ultimately minimise and trivialise mental illness by reducing it down to something that can be fixed with a chat and a bit of fresh air.

TobyHolmes

Be right back wrote: »

Or the Duke and Duchess of Montecito?

Love it- their new name

BettyS

Leg End Reject wrote: »

The interview was advertising to get more deals, I fully believe it was cynical and designed to promote them.

The claw back from the private wedding claim to their latest statement might be the start of the truth coming out. No mention of them exaggerating or lying I notice.

Somebody close to me really struggled with their mental health. It is heartbreaking stuff. I worry about the commodification of mental health for profit ventures. I think that raising awareness and improving resources is super. But making the purpose of a mental health initiative as profit is not something that I feel comfortable with. With regard to those businesses that are profiting from mental health: mental health is not a fad or a trend. It is a sad and lonely reality that many people face on a daily basis

BettyS

Sardonicat wrote: »

No, you're not being harsh. Speaking as someone with depression I find the whole 'advocating good mental health' shtick empty and pointless nonsense. While it is of course great that the stigma around mental and emotional disorders is slowly being eroded I think a lot of these positive messages ultimately minimise and trivialise mental illness by reducing it down to something that can be fixed with a chat and a bit of fresh air.

I really liked your post. It is very thoughtful! I hope that things are going okay for you now!

JoChervil

extra gravy wrote: »

Exactly, which makes your repeated over the top comments about her even weirder. No point discussing it any further. I'll leave you with this quote from earlier that sums up this thread perfectly:

"Associate Professor Lauren Rosewarne, a University of Melbourne sociologist, adds: “She’s a woman, she’s an outsider to the royal institution, she’s a person of colour, she’s smart, and she’s American. So she hits a number of factors that stir judgment and in this case that’s manifesting in a disproportionate amount of hatred.”

Well, before this interview “She’s a woman, she’s an outsider to the royal institution, she’s a person of colour, she’s smart, and she’s American." And yet she was completely indifferent to me.

Nothing has changed apart from the interview itself. After watching it I really dislike her.

Sardonicat

BettyS wrote: »

I really liked your post. It is very thoughtful! I hope that things are going okay for you now!

Thanks, all good at the moment.

MoonUnit75

BettyS wrote: »

Somebody close to me really struggled with their mental health. It is heartbreaking stuff. I worry about the commodification of mental health for profit ventures. I think that raising awareness and improving resources is super. But making the purpose of a mental health initiative as profit is not something that I feel comfortable with. With regard to those businesses that are profiting from mental health: mental health is not a fad or a trend. It is a sad and lonely reality that many people face on a daily basis

That's just it, it's cynical ar$e covering and corporate image damage control. When people start writing blogs, articles or taking cases over working 70 hour weeks to keep up with expectations in Facebook and other corporations they'll say 'we've always taken mental health and work life balance seriously, we hired Prince Harry for huge bucks ffs'.

It's no different from McDonalds sponsoring children's hospitals and parent accommodation, it makes it look like they care for children's welfare and the specialists who should be advising the public on children's health won't be naming and shaming McD's first in case the funding starts to dry up.

BettyS

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

That's just it, it's cynical ar$e covering and corporate image damage control. When people start writing blogs, articles or taking cases over working 70 hour weeks to keep up with expectations in Facebook and other corporations they'll say 'we've always taken mental health and work life balance seriously, we hired Prince Harry for huge bucks ffs'.

It's no different from McDonalds sponsoring children's hospitals and parent accommodation, it makes it look like they care for children's welfare and the specialists who should be advising the public on children's health won't be naming and shaming McD's first in case the funding starts to dry up.

I have always been cynical about the Gospel of Prosperity and “everything happens for a reason” school of thought. It always just seemed like another stick to beat people with for their own misfortunes. On the same vein, I also think that you can do what you want to maintain equanimity, but when poor mental health strikes, this is not because of lack of meditation or mindfulness. Sometimes, there are factors beyond what we can control for (Eg job loss, marriage breakdown, spouse cheating, kid unwell). No telly documentary can really help a person carry the burden of these misfortunes

I take off my hat to people who have suffered with mental health! It is a long and ****ty journey. I watched somebody destroy their marriage, job and kids because of untreated, underlying mental health issues. This man could have done all the meditation, and mindfulness he wanted, but his mental health issues were much deeper than this. He needed a good psychiatrist. No corporate mental health drive would have changed the outcome.

BettyS

BetterUp is essentially a life-coaching service. I suspect its fees will mean that it is only available to the select few. It will make a difference for those with the dollars

retro:electro

BettyS wrote: »

BetterUp is essentially a life-coaching service. I suspect its fees will mean that it is only available to the select few. It will make a difference for those with the dollars

I was going to ask, what is it that actually do? I can’t seem to get past all the overly Americanised corporate waffle

Neyite

TobyHolmes wrote: »

Love it- their new name

Is the pronunciation "Mon-deceit-o."


If so, that's way more apt than mine.

BettyS

retro:electro wrote: »

I was going to ask, what is it that actually do? I can’t seem to get past all the overly Americanised corporate waffle

The goals of BetterUp don’t really align with a more balanced and fulfilled human-being. They are peddling all the corporate ideals of success under the auspice of allowing a person to be the “better” them

Mules

Sardonicat wrote: »

No, you're not being harsh. Speaking as someone with depression I find the whole 'advocating good mental health' shtick empty and pointless nonsense. While it is of course great that the stigma around mental and emotional disorders is slowly being eroded I think a lot of these positive messages ultimately minimise and trivialise mental illness by reducing it down to something that can be fixed with a chat and a bit of fresh air.

I read a good article about that before. The positive messengers are careful to shy away from the severe illnesses, like those that have symptoms that people find frightening and disruptive.

People who have hallucinations or people who behave in socially unacceptable ways don't figure in to the positive messages. Good mental health is a completely different ball game to serious mental illness.

BettyS

There are some posts today that I wish that I could like more than once!

I find it a bit galling that Harry has announced that he hopes to advance his pursuit of dedicating his life to helping others in this role. This is jarring when I think of how much money he will earn from this. He makes it sound like a charitable pursuit

Sardonicat

BettyS wrote: »

I have always been cynical about the Gospel of Prosperity and “everything happens for a reason” school of thought. It always just seemed like another stick to beat people with for their own misfortunes. On the same vein, I also think that you can do what you want to maintain equanimity, but when poor mental health strikes, this is not because of lack of meditation or mindfulness. Sometimes, there are factors beyond what we can control for (Eg job loss, marriage breakdown, spouse cheating, kid unwell). No telly documentary can really help a person carry the burden of these misfortunes

I take off my hat to people who have suffered with mental health! It is a long and ****ty journey. I watched somebody destroy their marriage, job and kids because of untreated, underlying mental health issues. This man could have done all the meditation, and mindfulness he wanted, but his mental health issues were much deeper than this. He needed a good psychiatrist. No corporate mental health drive would have changed the outcome.

Yep. While positive changes like diet, exercise, talking and reflection can help and can prevent a minor issue become a more severe issue, sometimes people just get sick. Sometimes its cos the head has had enough if darling with sh1t and can take no more, sometimes it's an illness pure and simple. Depression and anxiety are no fun st som but are probably the more acceptable conditions to known to suffer from. But sometimes they arent the wholr condition, they are symptoms if something more complex and even when they are the full story, they have the potential to spiral into something very serious to the degree a person becomes delusional, psychotic or end their own lives. The most important thing is correct diagnosis and correct treatment. For that you need functional, accessible mental health services. No point going out for a walk in the fresh air if you want to be dead or think you should be dead or have become so delusional you think you are already dead and this is some kind of posthumous dream. That is the ugly reality of 'mental health' that none if these advocates ever discuss publicly. If you want to smash the stigma, you have to go there, otherwise it's just empty platitudes.

MoonUnit75

Mules wrote: »

I read a good article about that before. The positive messengers are careful to shy away from the severe illnesses, like those that have symptoms that people find frightening and disruptive.

People who have hallucinations or people who behave in socially unacceptable ways don't figure in to the positive messages. Good mental health is a completely different ball game to serious mental illness.

Yep, it's basically marketing to give the impression your corporate burnout isn't because you are expected to spend every waking hour doing or thinking about work, it's because you are also failing to work on your own 'mental health issues'.

They do nothing useful for actual disorders.

Mules

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Yep, it's basically marketing to give the impression your corporate burnout isn't because you are expected to spend every waking hour doing or thinking about work, it's because you are also failing to work on your own 'mental health issues'.

They do nothing useful for actual disorders.

100% agree

BettyS

Sinead O’Connor is an example of somebody who suffered terribly from her mental health. She was eschewed by the media after her difficulties. The corporate industry love the concept but the reality is too hard to handle.

BettyS

Sardonicat wrote: »

Yep. While positive changes like diet, exercise, talking and reflection can help and can prevent a minor issue become a more severe issue, sometimes people just get sick. Sometimes its cos the head has had enough if darling with sh1t and can take no more, sometimes it's an illness pure and simple. Depression and anxiety are no fun st som but are probably the more acceptable conditions to known to suffer from. But sometimes they arent the wholr condition, they are symptoms if something more complex and even when they are the full story, they have the potential to spiral into something very serious to the degree a person becomes delusional, psychotic or end their own lives. The most important thing is correct diagnosis and correct treatment. For that you need functional, accessible mental health services. No point going out for a walk in the fresh air if you want to be dead or think you should be dead or have become so delusional you think you are already dead and this is some kind of posthumous dream. That is the ugly reality of 'mental health' that none if these advocates ever discuss publicly. If you want to smash the stigma, you have to go there, otherwise it's just empty platitudes.

It is eye-opening the dearth of celebrities with psychotic disorders. Even their depiction of John Nash’s experience was all wrong (auditory hallucinations are the typical form, not visual). They presented the sanitised and acceptable version.

Mules

BettyS wrote: »

Sinead O’Connor is an example of somebody who suffered terribly from her mental health. She was eschewed by the media after her difficulties. The corporate industry love the concept but the reality is too hard to handle.

I think it's because it's so far outside of most people's experience that they can't comprehend it. They see the unusual behaviour and are nervous of it.

Mules

BettyS wrote: »

It is eye-opening the dearth of celebrities with psychotic disorders. Even their depiction of John Nash’s experience was all wrong (auditory hallucinations are the typical form, not visual). They presented the sanitised and acceptable version.

Sanitised is a good description.

BettyS

Mules wrote: »

I think it's because it's so far outside of most people's experience that they can't comprehend it. They see the unusual behaviour and are nervous of it.

The lifetime incidence of a major mental health disorder is 1/4. Frankly, every family has one.

I remember a family friend telling me about his wife’s struggles. They were a very well-to-do and decent family. She was hospitalised in a psychiatric hospital. He told me that she stopped washing herself for the preceding months. These kind of experiences will never make it to the “sanitised” version of mental health

Mules

BettyS wrote: »

The lifetime incidence of a major mental health disorder is 1/4. Frankly, every family has one.

I remember a family friend telling me about his wife’s struggles. They were a very well-to-do and decent family. She was hospitalised in a psychiatric hospital. He told me that she stopped washing herself for the preceding months. These kind of experiences will never make it to the “sanitised” version of mental health

I didn't know the lifetime incidence was so high.

BettyS

Mules wrote: »

I didn't know the lifetime incidence was so high.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174588/

Not every one of these patients will end up in a hospital, but mental health disorders are based around criteria and the disorder itself (in order to be diagnosed as such) must cause significant impairment to the person’s ability to function in their daily life

Mules

BettyS wrote: »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174588/

Not every one of these patients will end up in a hospital, but mental health disorders are based around criteria and the disorder itself (in order to be diagnosed as such) must cause significant impairment to the person’s ability to function in their daily life

So more than a chat and a bit of fresh air needed

BettyS

Mules wrote: »

So more than a chat and a bit of fresh air needed

Absolutely! I have read extensively on the basis of my loved-one’s struggles. There is a difference between the treatment and the maintenance phase. Sleep, Eat, Exercise and all the other bits will reduce the risk of recurrence in the maintenance phase. But they cannot 100% guarantee no recurrence. And in the treatment phase, they are an adjunct treatment. Other treatments are often necessary.

My pet hate is people saying “sure, take a walk or deep breath and you’ll be grand”. Mental health is an illness. People wouldn’t be expected to walk on a broken leg or told that some app will fix it for them.

I always worry when somebody speaks out and starts advising on mental health, that they may give erroneous advice. Harry does not have the qualifications to ensure that he is giving a balanced and safe advice to those people. He will have to tread carefully. Imagine, if he started coming out and giving advice on reducing risk of a heart attack. It is one thing him giving his personal account as somebody who experienced mental health issues. It will be another if he tries to give guidance on other people’s mental health

Mules

BettyS wrote: »

Absolutely! I have read extensively on the basis of my loved-one’s struggles. There is a difference between the treatment and the maintenance phase. Sleep, Eat, Exercise and all the other bits will reduce the risk of recurrence in the maintenance phase. But they cannot 100% guarantee no recurrence. And in the treatment phase, they are an adjunct treatment. Other treatments are often necessary.

My pet hate is people saying “sure, take a walk or deep breath and you’ll be grand”. Mental health is an illness. People wouldn’t be expected to walk on a broken leg or told that some app will fix it for them.

I always worry when somebody speaks out and starts advising on mental health, that they may give erroneous advice. Harry does not have the qualifications to ensure that he is giving a balanced and safe advice to those people. He will have to tread carefully. Imagine, if he started coming out and giving advice on reducing risk of a heart attack. It is one thing him giving his personal account as somebody who experienced mental health issues. It will be another if he tries to give guidance on other people’s mental health

Yes, his personal account is all he can safely give. Anything else would be irresponsible. Psychiatry is such a complex speciality. A psychiatrist I know said that it's part art and part science. There's so much we don't know about the brain, it makes sense that it's nowhere near cut and dried.

BettyS

BettyS wrote: »

Absolutely! I have read extensively on the basis of my loved-one’s struggles. There is a difference between the treatment and the maintenance phase. Sleep, Eat, Exercise and all the other bits will reduce the risk of recurrence in the maintenance phase. But they cannot 100% guarantee no recurrence. And in the treatment phase, they are an adjunct treatment. Other treatments are often necessary.

My pet hate is people saying “sure, take a walk or deep breath and you’ll be grand”. Mental health is an illness. People wouldn’t be expected to walk on a broken leg or told that some app will fix it for them.

I always worry when somebody speaks out and starts advising on mental health, that they may give erroneous advice. Harry does not have the qualifications to ensure that he is giving a balanced and safe advice to those people. He will have to tread carefully. Imagine, if he started coming out and giving advice on reducing risk of a heart attack. It is one thing him giving his personal account as somebody who experienced mental health issues. It will be another if he tries to give guidance on other people’s mental health

A very good post.

On the subject of Harry’s mental health issues and not meaning to make little of them, were they more grieving issues rather the more serious mental health ones, I wonder?