Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

retro:electro

jm08

retro:electro wrote: »

Where did you read that the RF didn’t want her to get help? By all accounts it seems the RF never even knew. Harry said he was too ashamed to tell them.

Well, The Firm, which the Queen is the head of.

Markle admitted during particularly nasty press intrusion she “didn’t want to be alive anymore” and went to the royal family to help improve her mental health. “That was frightening thought,” she added. She spoke to someone high up in the “institution” but was turned down. “You couldn’t just call an Uber to the Palace” and check in to a hospital, revealing that she didn’t even have access to her own passport. She admitted that her thoughts of suicide were “very real” and she was scared, admitting that “I don’t think I can be left alone”.
“It takes so much courage to admit that you need to help. To admit that you need help…”

https://deadline.com/2021/03/prince-harry-meghan-markle-oprah-interview-race-concerns-megxit-netflix-spotify-1234708735/

retro:electro

jm08 wrote: »

Well, The Firm, which the Queen is the head of.





https://deadline.com/2021/03/prince-harry-meghan-markle-oprah-interview-race-concerns-megxit-netflix-spotify-1234708735/

Yeah she went to HR. Who wouldn’t have had the power to get her help. The family didn’t know, Harry was too ashamed to tell them. So your claim that the RF didn’t want her to get help is incorrect. I’m sure they would have helped her. She wouldn’t be the first in the family to receive care while experiencing a mental health crisis.

retro:electro

jm08 wrote: »

Imagine, a 38 year old woman isn't capable of minding her own passport and car keys, despite having full time protection.

Imagine, a 38 year old woman isn’t capable of telling her own personally drafted in team of private doctors to monitor her pregnancy that she felt suicidal while pregnant.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Imagine, a 38 year old woman isn't capable of minding her own passport and car keys, despite having full time protection.



The first and only thing any doctor would have told her to do is 'get out of there fast'. I presume that is why the RF didn't want her to get help.

I can bet you good money that Michael D Higgins doesn't have his passport in his top drawer either.
Doesn't mean that he isn't capable of looking after it!!

There are staff that deal with travel details and security details, personal assistants and secretaries etc. They have these items because they are the ones who need them. Megan (nor micky D) actually use their passports themselves.
Do you think these people queue up at security & passport control like us plebs?
No, they do not. Pretty sure Megan wouldn't be happy doing that either!

Be right back

retro:electro wrote: »

Imagine, a 38 year old woman isn’t capable of telling her own personally drafted in team of private doctors to monitor her pregnancy that she felt suicidal while pregnant.

Or this.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

no bubbly, it was long passed the stage where simply ignoring it was an option.
the headlines had gone beyond simply being stupid and ridiculous, into being spiteful and vitriolic, why shouldn't someone get upset over such?

Because our own mental health is more important then worrying about what other people think or write about us.
It wasn't gone past any stage, she just couldn't move past it.
That's an issue with her, she would have been far better off trying to deal with her own issues rather then blame the royal family for what the press said about her.

Lisha

bubblypop wrote: »

I can bet you good money that Michael D Higgins doesn't have his passport in his top drawer either.
Doesn't mean that he isn't capable of looking after it!!

There are staff that deal with travel details and security details, personal assistants and secretaries etc. They have these items because they are the ones who need them. Megan (nor micky D) actually use their passports themselves.
Do you think these people queue up at security & passport control like us plebs?
No, they do not. Pretty sure Megan wouldn't be happy doing that either!

I’d happily bet as much money again that Oprah’s passport would be faster found by her staff than by Oprah herself.

valoren

They can engage in all the extensive set up administration and work involved with their foundation and patronages when the suicide ideation occured but between them they can't discreetly pick up the phone. It's a victim playing narrative i.e. I needed help, I reached out but I was blocked by the suits. It wouldn't be a good look. So she didn't get any help, she survived, she escaped. She is the victim and the hero of that story.

And Harry? Extensive therapy experience with his own mental health, himself a co-founder of the Heads Together charity and he can't for the sake of his wife pick up the phone to a contact. He was too embarrassed. It is simply not credible whatsoever as any help would automatically be confidential.

bunny_mac

jm08 wrote: »

The difference is the Middleton's are multi millionaires. Kate's sister was able to use her 'fame' with writing newspaper columns (and I think she also wrote some sort of a book).

So it's ok to be vile to someone if they're a millionaire?

jm08 wrote: »

I think what Meghan said was that she didn't expect it to be so vicious and so relentless. She couldn't do anything right even when she stayed out of sight.

Diana, Fergie and Kate were all the subject of 'vicious and relentless' abuse by some elements of the media. Yet Meghan expected it to be different for her?

Anyway, I was living in England when they got together and my experience of it was that the media interest in Meghan at the beginning was overwhelmingly positive (with the odd questionable article from the usual suspects). When things started to get ugly was when she started refusing to play ball when Archie was born – no photos outside the hospital, birth location shrouded in secrecy, godparents secret etc. etc. That rubbed people up the wrong way. And all the nonsense about them wanting Archie to be a private citizen, I guess the way Joe UK Public felt about that was, well hang on, he *isn't* a private citizen, his lavish lifestyle will be paid for out of my purse so I want to see the odd photo of him. I don't think a few photos and the names of his godparents was too much to ask. (Plus she revealed the 'private citizen' stuff to be a total lie when she threw her toys out of the pram about him not getting a title and wheeled him out when it suited her for her money-making/Hollywood hobnobbing opportunities.)


But I think that was all part of her plan. She never intended to stay in the UK and by withholding Archie she knew she'd piss the media off, they'd write nasty things about her and there was her 'get out of the UK' card. It was all working nicely until the Queen refused to let them be half in/half out, so she spat the dummy and is now accusing the RF of all sorts because she didn't get her way.

I'm no fan of the royals by the way, but I'm even less of a fan of narcissists.

jm08

retro:electro wrote: »

Yeah she went to HR. Who wouldn’t have had the power to get her help. The family didn’t know, Harry was too ashamed to tell them. So your claim that the RF didn’t want her to get help is incorrect. I’m sure they would have helped her. She wouldn’t be the first in the family to receive care while experiencing a mental health crisis.

HR said ''No'', so they did have some power. The fact that Harry was ashamed to tell his family says more about them than him.
Some interesting bits in this analysis of the interview. For example, on Archie not getting a title. Technically, of the great grandchildren of the Queen, George is the only one who should get the title of Prince (eldest in direct succession to the throne). The Queen made an exception for Charlotte and Louis. I wonder why the same exception wasn't made for another child whose grandfather will be King (unless the Queen is going to by-pass Charles).


This is a good read.



https://deadline.com/2021/03/prince-harry-meghan-markle-oprah-interview-race-concerns-megxit-netflix-spotify-1234708735/


Just on security - it says that security is cut off once they reach 18, but from what I can see they all have apartments in Kensington Palace (even cousins like Prince Michael of Kent), so have protection paid for by the State.


Also, it was claimed that Diana lost her protection when she divorced Charles, but she continued to live in Kensington Palace and only refused Palace protection but accepted Met Police protection. She also had a bodyguard (the guy who was driving the car when she was killed).


As for Andrew - it was claimed that he lost his protection since he isn't carrying out royal duties. The Queen is paying for his protection now, so he hasn't been left to pay for it himself.

EDIT: That is the wrong link above. This is correct one: https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/meghan-and-harrys-interview-with-oprah-the-unanswered-questions/news-story/b58d7aa712bf3c306a1bd4e02461bf32

retro:electro

jm08 wrote: »

HR said ''No'', so they did have some power. The fact that Harry was ashamed to tell his family says more about them than him.

You are trying to distract from your initial claim now which was that the RF didn’t want to get Meghan help, which is untrue. They didn’t know she needed help, as Harry was too ashamed to tell them. His shame about Meghan’s state of mind is a reflection on absolutely nobody only himself. You would think after all his involvement in mental health campaigns over the years and being patron of same, as well as receiving help himself, he would know that there is no shame in someone needing help. If not then it beggars belief what he was doing spearheading campaigns and accepting patronage. Anyway, your initial claim that they didn’t want her to get help was incorrect, just pointing that out, and happy we have cleared it up.

jm08

bubblypop wrote: »

I can bet you good money that Michael D Higgins doesn't have his passport in his top drawer either.
Doesn't mean that he isn't capable of looking after it!!

Michael D. has his bank card and gets his own cash out of the cash machine. I bet he has his passport and I bet his children and their children have their passport.

There are staff that deal with travel details and security details, personal assistants and secretaries etc. They have these items because they are the ones who need them. Megan (nor micky D) actually use their passports themselves.

I doubt if Michael D. (or any head of State) needs to go through passport control when on official business. I bet if travelling personally, he does. Do you think Leo Varadkar surrendered his passport to anyone when he was Taoiseach or Boris Johnson? Certainly not to staff who don't work for them directly (like a Private Secretary).

Do you think these people queue up at security & passport control like us plebs?
No, they do not. Pretty sure Megan wouldn't be happy doing that either.

On private visits, I'd say they have to go through passport control. It maybe a VIP section, but I'd expect that Meghan had to show her passport when enterting the US that time.

Purple Mountain

bubblypop wrote: »

I can bet you good money that Michael D Higgins doesn't have his passport in his top drawer either.
Doesn't mean that he isn't capable of looking after it!!

There are staff that deal with travel details and security details, personal assistants and secretaries etc. They have these items because they are the ones who need them. Megan (nor micky D) actually use their passports themselves.
Do you think these people queue up at security & passport control like us plebs?
No, they do not. Pretty sure Megan wouldn't be happy doing that either!

Absolutely. I can't imagine Michael D nor Megan Markle would be allowed carry their passports/driving licences around in their pockets!
Imagine they were lost and turned up on the dark web for sale. Lol.
Obviously, such sensitive documents are going to be kept in a very place by their security team.
I'm sure it's probably the same with "celebrities". Their security team probably have those under lock and key.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Michael D. has his bank card and gets his own cash out of the cash machine. I bet he has his passport and I bet his children and their children have their passport

I doubt if Michael D. (or any head of State) needs to go through passport control when on official business. I bet if travelling personally, he does. Do you think Leo Varadkar surrendered his passport to anyone when he was Taoiseach or Boris Johnson? Certainly not to staff who don't work for them directly (like a Private Secretary).

On private visits, I'd say they have to go through passport control. It maybe a VIP section, but I'd expect that Meghan had to show her passport when enterting the US that time.

Having actual experience of this, no they do not go through passport control on private holidays.


Michael D does indeed have his own money, we pay him a handsome salary, straight into his account no doubt!
Someone else deals with his travel arrangements however
I have no idea why you think someone would have his children's passports?

jm08

retro:electro wrote: »

You are trying to distract from your initial claim now which was that the RF didn’t want to get Meghan help, which is untrue. They didn’t know she needed help, as Harry was too ashamed to tell them. His shame about Meghan’s state of mind is a reflection on absolutely nobody only himself. You would think after all his involvement in mental health campaigns over the years and being patron of same, as well as receiving help himself, he would know that there is no shame in someone needing help. If not then it beggars belief what he was doing spearheading campaigns and accepting patronage. Anyway, your initial claim that they didn’t want her to get help was incorrect, just pointing that out, and happy we have cleared it up.

I think he explained it very well here (basically, never explain, never complain, except .....)

But then comes this question from Oprah, and Harry’s response.
“Did you tell other people in the family, I need to get help for her, we need help for her?” Oprah asked.
“That’s just not a conversation that would be had,” said Harry.
“Why?” she interjected.
“I guess I was ashamed of admitting it to them. I don’t know whether they’ve had the same feelings or thoughts. I have no idea. It’s a very trapping environment that a lot of them are stuck in,” he explained.
“You were ashamed of admitting that Meghan needed help?” Oprah said.
“Yeah. I didn’t have anyone to turn to. You know, we’ve got some very close friends that have been with us through this whole process,” he told her.
“But for the family, they very much have this mentality of, ‘This is just how it is. This is how it’s meant to be, you can’t change it. We’ve all been through it.’”
Later, he spoke about engaging in “conversations with senior palace staff” and “with my family” to warn that the media’s treatment of Meghan was “not going to end well”.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/meghan-and-harrys-interview-with-oprah-the-unanswered-questions/news-story/b58d7aa712bf3c306a1bd4e02461bf32

walshb

Harry blaming everything and anything on others!!!!

jm08

bubblypop wrote: »

Having actual experience of this, no they do not go through passport control on private holidays.

Michael D does indeed have his own money, we pay him a handsome salary, straight into his account no doubt!
Someone else deals with his travel arrangements however
I have no idea why you think someone would have his children's passports?

Meghan is married to the grandson of the UK head of State

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Meghan is married to the grandson of the UK head of State

Are you somehow trying to say that Michael D grandchild is the same as the queen's grandchildren?
You're really running out of credibility

jm08

bubblypop wrote: »

Having actual experience of this, no they do not go through passport control on private holidays.

Michael D does indeed have his own money, we pay him a handsome salary, straight into his account no doubt!
Someone else deals with his travel arrangements however
I have no idea why you think someone would have his children's passports?

Meghan also had her own money, I wonder could she go to the banklink machine and get cash out for herself like Michael D?

retro:electro

jm08 wrote: »

I think he explained it very well here (basically, never explain, never complain, except .....)








https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/royals/meghan-and-harrys-interview-with-oprah-the-unanswered-questions/news-story/b58d7aa712bf3c306a1bd4e02461bf32

Yes, so they didn’t know. So your claim about the RF not wanting Meghan to get help is incorrect. No need to keep digging and switching the goalposts.
Also, that only explains why he didn’t tell the RF. Not why he didn’t contact one of the many charities he has been linked with for years or insist Meghan tell her team of doctors of these intrusive suicidal thoughts she was having while pregnant.

Tis a humdinger.

jm08

bubblypop wrote: »

Are you somehow trying to say that Michael D grandchild is the same as the queen's grandchildren?
You're really running out of credibility

No one is the same as the Queen's grandchildren.

walshb

Why are folks crying about centuries of rules, duty, protocols and tradition here?

Silly nonsense stories about driver’s licences and passports etc..

Meghan married into the family. Didn’t quite like the lie of the land..

And instead of just getting out and getting lost, she saw an opportunity to further hog the limelight..

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Meghan also had her own money, I wonder could she go to the banklink machine and get cash out for herself like Michael D?

I'm sure she could, she probably uses contact less payments though....

jm08

retro:electro wrote: »

Yes, so they didn’t know. So your claim about the RF not wanting Meghan to get help is incorrect. No need to keep digging and switching the goalposts.

The Queen is the Head of the ''Institution" so she should have known about it. Harry says in that article that he spoke to lots of people in the ''Institution''.

retro:electro

jm08 wrote: »

The Queen is the Head of the ''Institution" so she should have known about it. Harry says in that article that he spoke to lots of people in the ''Institution''.

He did not tell his family. He was too ashamed to. He was very clear about that.

end of the road

walshb wrote: »

It doesn’t matter a damn

She can’t prove that she is being truthful and I can’t prove that she’s not..

It’s her claim. That’s all it is..

I simply don’t believe it.

well, she said in the interview that she has proof for a number of things, so perhapse she actually can back up that she is being truthful at least on some matters.
so, looks like she has an advantage over the rest of us currently until reliable evidence comes out to show otherwise.
she says she was suicidal, given you and others don't believe her it is ultimately on you to prove she wasn't because such a belief isn't really based on anything reliable and you weren't there.

volchitsa wrote: »

All that this says is that you're determined to believe it nomatter what evidence there is to the contrary. And you're entitled to do that, just as I'm entitled to point out the inconsistencies in her version of events.



There's also the fact that I think the royal family would not be so stupid as to make many of the same mistakes they made about Diana back in the day all over again. They're very aware now of bad media coverage, and there's no way they'd have risked her having an actual breakdown if that seemed at all likely because it would look so bad for them. But I do believe it's very likely that that's the image that Meghan - and possibly Harry - have in their minds.

no no, it's not that i'm happy to believe her no matter what.
rather it's that i'm happy to believe her currently as apart from a misunderstanding over the wedding there is no reliable evidence to show the rest to be such that it should be disbelieved currently.

jm08

walshb wrote: »

Why are folks crying about centuries of rules, duty, protocols and tradition here?

Silly nonsense stories about driver’s licences and passports etc..

Meghan married into the family. Didn’t quite like the lie of the land..

And instead of just getting out and getting lost, she saw an opportunity to fitter hog the limelight..

She didn't like the way she was treated in the press and the lack of effort from the RF to protect her.



The point about not having her passport or car keys are there to explain the amount of control exerted by the Institution and why she didn't get an Uber to a hospital.


She was exposed to extreme racist bile from the British press and the RF didn't lift a finger to try and defend her.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

well, she said in the interview that she has proof for a number of things, so perhapse she actually can back up that she is being truthful at least on some matters.
so, looks like she has an advantage over the rest of us currently until reliable evidence comes out to show otherwise.
she says she was suicidal, given you and others don't believe her it is ultimately on you to prove she wasn't because such a belief isn't really based on anything reliable and you weren't there.

no no, it's not that i'm happy to believe her no matter what.
rather it's that i'm happy to believe her currently as apart from a misunderstanding over the wedding there is no reliable evidence to show the rest to be such that it should be disbelieved currently.

Like the proof of the wedding that wasn’t which is framed in their home?

walshb

end of the road wrote: »

well, she said in the interview that she has proof for a number of things, so perhapse she actually can back up that she is being truthful at least on some matters.
so, looks like she has an advantage over the rest of us currently until reliable evidence comes out to show otherwise.
she says she was suicidal, given you and others don't believe her it is ultimately on you to prove she wasn't because such a belief isn't really based on anything reliable and you .

I don’t have to prove anything.

I do not believe her “I was suicidal” claim, or “I didn’t want to live anymore” claim..

It’s her claim/thought..

Impossible that I can disprove it

It’s something in someone’s head...it’s either true or not. And only the person really knows.

So, until I see her signed off by a certified shrink as being suicidal, I’ll leave it at me not believing her..