Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Ah here... seriously?

KP even issued a strongly worded rebuke about it on behalf of Harry when they were still dating. And that's before Archie was likened to a chimpanzee.

KP?
Jaysis, I never saw anything like that written about the baby, that's terrible.

Of course, I don't tend to read gutter news so I wouldn't see rubbish like that. Maybe Harry and MM should do similar

retro:electro

Neyite wrote: »

Was she anyone's boss on the show though? The allegations now aren't coming from fellow senior royals or even junior royals, so not colleagues or co-workers they are coming from palace staff. We all probably know someone who is lovely to his co-workers but is a dick to subordinates.

There were murmurings about the staff turnover from the beginning -the first official one was submitted in 2018 the year they married. Whether there's any substance to the allegations remains to be seen but something like 10 people have now come forward.

It feels like something did happen at the time, and in particular something that will make Meghan and Harry look bad. And it's probably true that it resurfaced conveniently in response to hearing they were being interviewed to remind them that if mud slinging is going to happen they aren't the only ones with dirt to throw.

If the racism allegation stays at the forefront of the media, or the media starts digging to find out who exactly it was you can expect that a few more highly placed sources will blab a story or two about H&M.

Agreed. I can see how seeing someone who made your life very difficult play the victim on tv to an audience of millions would prompt you to want to get your side heard.

beakerjoe

Ms2011 wrote: »

It would want to be a fairly big trauma to change someone's personality so dramatically and in such a short time.

It doesnt have to be trauma. Power corrupts. Its not unrealistic to believe its possible.

Princess Calla

Neyite wrote: »

Was she anyone's boss on the show though? The allegations now aren't coming from fellow senior royals or even junior royals, so not colleagues or co-workers they are coming from palace staff. We all probably know someone who is lovely to his co-workers but is a dick to subordinates.

There were murmurings about the staff turnover from the beginning -the first official one was submitted in 2018 the year they married. Whether there's any substance to the allegations remains to be seen but something like 10 people have now come forward.

It feels like something did happen at the time, and in particular something that will make Meghan and Harry look bad. And it's probably true that it resurfaced conveniently in response to hearing they were being interviewed to remind them that if mud slinging is going to happen they aren't the only ones with dirt to throw.

If the racism allegation stays at the forefront of the media, or the media starts digging to find out who exactly it was you can expect that a few more highly placed sources will blab a story or two about H&M.

I think she went through a couple of nannies didn't she?

It's hard to call that one especially as a new mum and you are apprehensive about everything. Sometimes you just get a gut feeling about someone and don't want them minding your child.

American's can also be pretty direct, so that could be at play too.....again as I said earlier perception vs reality.

Ms2011

beakerjoe wrote: »

It doesnt have to be trauma. Power corrupts. Its not unrealistic to believe its possible.

Bit of a stretch though

Necro

Mod:

walshb's threadban lifted after discussion with poster. Keep it civil folks, thanks.

Stateofyou

bubblypop wrote: »

KP?
Jaysis, I never saw anything like that written about the baby, that's terrible.

Of course, I don't tend to read gutter news so I wouldn't see rubbish like that. Maybe Harry and MM should do similar

Sorry, KP is Kensington Palace. Yeah, it was pretty terrible. There was also a headline about being "straight outta Compton" and another one about her "seed" tainting the royal family. I remember reading something about the palace having to employ more staff and implement software to manage the online social media comments and filter out all the "N" words and increased death threats. Insane.

beakerjoe

Princess Calla wrote: »

I think she went through a couple of nannies didn't she?

It's hard to call that one especially as a new mum and you are apprehensive about everything. Sometimes you just get a gut feeling about someone and don't want them minding your child.

American's can also be pretty direct, so that could be at play too.....again as I said earlier perception vs reality.

This is very possible. I was certainly very protective of my child. as far as Im aware, kids being raised in the Royals have vastly different up bringing than that of average folk.

Meghan perhaps had her own ideals when it came to raising her child.

walshb

Stateofyou wrote: »

You're going off on one now, you really didn't like being pulled up on name calling, do you? Descriptive does not equal name calling, but I think you know that already.

So tell me this, do you really think the British royal family isn't inherently racist? You've said it's Harry that is letting "one comment" tarnish the entire institution, that' he's "created this institutionalized racist angle," and you questioned this a few posts back: "Unless I missed something, and Harry is making out that there is some endemic racism inherent with the whole institution?"

You don't think the British Royal Family has a long history of colonialism, racism and sexism that they uphold and represent to this day? I'd like to hear your thoughts on those points you made.

Edit: Or not... anyone else have thoughts on this?

This is what I can't get here

Because the RF had racism in it for centuries means that anyone ever associated with it is racist?

Can change not happen, people not change, new born people not be any different

Because peoples distant relatives were racist means you and your future relatives will be?

I think this is completely illogical....The world is a completely different place today compared to many years ago.

To juts say that because the RF had racism in it means they will ALWAYS be racist....that is not logical,.

Let's stick to the facts, and not bring in centuries ago, where racism actually existed

Did Harry suggest his family (all them and those associated with the crown) were racists, today, in the now....not their distant past/relatives

Did he let the one comment that was said by one person lead many to believe that the whole lot of the family are racists?

Stateofyou

Neyite wrote: »

There were murmurings about the staff turnover from the beginning -the first official one was submitted in 2018 the year they married. Whether there's any substance to the allegations remains to be seen but something like 10 people have now come forward.

Where did you see that?

beakerjoe

Ms2011 wrote: »

Bit of a stretch though

No not for me. Listen, its all speculation either way. I have no clue what really happened, no one on here does. Its all hear say.

Its a case of who do we believe.

I believe they are two sides of a very rotten coin. I dont believe either side fully. The truth may never truly surface and if it does, we may never believe it.

I cant be sure about any of it.

Stateofyou

walshb wrote: »

This is what I can't get here

Because the RF had racism in it for centuries means that anyone ever associated with it is racist?

Can change not happen, people not change, new born people not be any different

Because peoples distant relatives were racist means you and your future relatives will be?

I think this is completely illogical....The world is a completely different place today compared to many years ago.

To juts say that because the RF had racism in it means they will ALWAYS be racist....that is not logical,.

Let's stick to the facts, and not bring in centuries ago were racism actually existed

Did Harry suggest his family (all them and those associated with the crown) were racists, today, in the now....not their distant past/relatives

Did he let the one comment that was said by one person lead many to believe that the whole lot of the family are racists?

No, I think you've misrepresented the argument here and missed my point.

Part of the issue is that there was no shutting down and speaking out publicly or to them personally from his family about the racism that was directed at them. To be able to say you're not racist, really requires being actively, anti-racist. Taking a stand and shutting that down. In not doing so, they are upholding the same values in the past of that system.

As it is, they remain part of an institution that built it's wealth, traditions and power upon colonialism, racism and sexism. Has this been rectified to the people affected, outside and inside this institution? I don't think so.

Princess Calla

beakerjoe wrote: »

No not for me. Listen, its all speculation either way. I have no clue what really happened, no one on here does. Its all hear say.

Its a case of who do we believe.

I believe they are two sides of a very rotten coin. I dont believe either side fully. The truth may never truly surface and if it does, we may never believe it.

I cant be sure about any of it.

I always think 3 sides, side a and side b with truth somewhere in the middle.

tipptom

Anyone find it weird that she would invite Oprah to her wedding even though she did not know her?

walshb

Stateofyou wrote: »

No, I think you've misrepresented the argument here and missed my point.

Part of the issue is that there was no shutting down and speaking out publicly or to them personally from his family about the racism that was directed at them. To be able to say you're not racist, really requires being actively, anti-racist. Taking a stand and shutting that down. In not doing so, they are upholding the same values in the past of that system.

As it is, they remain part of an institution that built it's wealth, traditions and power upon colonialism, racism and sexism. Has this been rectified to the people affected, outside and inside this institution? I don't think so.

We can go back and forth

Simple: You can't compare the RF today with 50 years ago, let alone 500 years ago

You brought up the far past here. I think that was illogical

Let's judge people on what they are doing now, and not judge them on years and years and years ago before they were even born...

walshb

tipptom wrote: »

Anyone find it weird that she would invite Oprah to her wedding even though she did not know her?

Celebs do this all the time....

It's a weird world....

RF do it as well....

retro:electro

tipptom wrote: »

Anyone find it weird that she would invite Oprah to her wedding even though she did not know her?

She seems to be obsessed with optics, and wanted all the “right” people there, whether she even knew them or not.

Stateofyou

walshb wrote: »

We can go back and forth

Simple: You can't compare the RF today with 50 years ago, let alone 500 years ago

You brought up the far past here. I think that was illogical

Let's judge people on what they are doing now, and not judge them on years and years and years ago before they were even born...

Again, that's not what is happening here, you're misrepresenting the point I'm making.

I've absolutely placed the judgment on what they are doing now, I think this was quite clear so I'm not sure how you've missed that (logical) point.

We can park it here between you and I as I don't think we're getting anywhere.

Princess Calla

tipptom wrote: »

Anyone find it weird that she would invite Oprah to her wedding even though she did not know her?

You obviously never went to a wedding during the tiger years.

I doubt the brides and grooms knew all their guests either

Stateofyou

retro:electro wrote: »

She seems to be obsessed with optics, and wanted all the “right” people there, whether she even knew them or not.

Probably fair to say I've been to more than 50 Irish weddings including my own ha ha. In many cases you're expected to invite people you don't know who lets say might be friends of your parents, or someone who invited them so they're returning the gesture, all the plus 1's etc.

Maybe on a scale such as this they invited a few people they admired and felt inspired by and hoped to get to know better? Is there something wrong with that?

walshb

Stateofyou wrote: »

Again, that's not what is happening here, you're misrepresenting the point I'm making.

I've absolutely placed the judgment on what they are doing now, I think this was quite clear so I'm not sure how you've missed that (logical) point.

We can park it here between you and I as I don't think we're getting anywhere.

I don’t think I am misrepresenting you

You brought up centuries of colonialism and racism to kind of legitimise Harry and Meghan’a racist angle concerning one person’s alleged comment..

It’s just not plausible in today’s world.

Princess Calla

retro:electro wrote: »

She seems to be obsessed with optics, and wanted all the “right” people there, whether she even knew them or not.

Mmm oprah or half brother who has been arrested for taking a gun to his fiancees head.

Stateofyou

walshb wrote: »

I don’t think I am misrepresenting you

You brought up centuries of colonialism and racism to kind of legitimise Harry and Meghan’a racist angle concerning one person’s alleged comment..

It’s just not plausible in today’s world.

You've missed the point again and you seem to be doing it deliberately. I've made the connection between the past and present and I think this was quite clear. I'd appreciate it if you'd drop it as it's not getting anywhere and you're starting to get insulting again by saying I'm illogical. If you don't get the point that's fine.

valoren

There's no predicting what can happen to someone's personality if conferred, nay, entrusted with a position of power and that abuse of that power within a very short space of time can happen under certain conditions.The Stanford Prison experiment is testament to that.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2805497

retro:electro

Stateofyou wrote: »

Probably fair to say I've been to more than 50 Irish weddings including my own ha ha. In many cases you're expected to invite people you don't know who lets say might be friends of your parents, or someone who invited them so they're returning the gesture, all the plus 1's etc.

Maybe on a scale such as this they invited a few people they admired and felt inspired by and hoped to get to know better? Is there something wrong with that?

Well yes because they then went on to call their own wedding a “spectacle” and claimed they got married three days previous. Bit strange to then feed into the spectacle by inviting some of the most famous people in the world when all you truly wanted was an intimate affair. Comparing it to Joan and Paul’s wedding who have to invite their second cousin’s friend’s sister’s neighbour’s daughter because you waved to her once in the supermarket but your mother is great friends with her mother is not quite the same.

retro:electro

Princess Calla wrote: »

Mmm oprah or half brother who has been arrested for taking a gun to his fiancees head.

Or neither?

Stateofyou

retro:electro wrote: »

Well yes because they then went on to call their own wedding a “spectacle” and claimed they got married three days previous. Bit strange to then feed into the spectacle by inviting some of the most famous people in the world when all you truly wanted was an intimate affair. Comparing it to Joan and Paul’s wedding who have to invite their second cousin’s friend’s sister’s neighbour’s daughter because you waved to her once in the supermarket but your mother is great friends with her mother is not quite the same.

Well it was a spectacle, meaning a visually striking performance or display, so that sounds right to me with all that goes into it, being televised around the world and a long guest list of people they don't know or know of. I think it's nice they had something intimate for themselves, I probably would have done the same in their shoes! What they might have truly wanted was not what was expected, so that sort of goes out the window...

Princess Calla

retro:electro wrote: »

Or neither?

True.

Though I'd say in comparison to the royal guests who HAD to be invited because of protocol , her side of the church would have been empty.

tipptom

Princess Calla wrote: »

Mmm oprah or half brother who has been arrested for taking a gun to his fiancees head.

I think its tacky to have either of them at a Royal wedding

retro:electro

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well it was a spectacle, meaning a visually striking performance or display, so that sounds right to me with all that goes into it, being televised around the world and a long guest list of people they don't know or know of. I think it's nice they had something intimate for themselves, I probably would have done the same in their shoes! What they might have truly wanted was not what was expected, so that sort of goes out the window...

They fed into the spectacle by inviting some of the world’s most famous and powerful people. Some who they didn’t even know. That is why I believe she is obsessed with optics. That is my opinion of her and I’m entitled to that. And yes the small and intimate affair does sound lovely. I’m sure the British tax payer is delighted to learn that their money was well spent on a “spectacle” when what they really wanted was something small.