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Paul Reid: Value for money?

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    #122
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭whippet


    mariaalice wrote: »
    As for his pay, I would use the 10 to I ratio i.e the difference between the lowest-paid in an organisation and the CEO should be not be more than 10 times the lowest paid going by that matrix he should be paid approximately 246k a year I would also add performance bonus.

    why would you settle on 10:1 ratio ? what is this ratio based on ?

    Why not 11:1 or 9:1 ?


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    #123
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    mariaalice wrote: »
    As for his pay, I would use the 10 to I ratio i.e the difference between the lowest-paid in an organisation and the CEO should be not be more than 10 times the lowest paid going by that matrix he should be paid approximately 246k a year I would also add performance bonus.

    That looks fair although realistically you needs to be high enough to attract the right person. The market should dictate this.

    Problem is it doesn't appear the role was open to the market or the decision makers are incompetent or corrupt or both.

    His salary and selection just illustrates the utter waste and incompetence in the public sector.


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    #124
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    While this is obviously crazy money in the context of an organisation which is apparently perpetually under funded, its not Paul's salary itself which is worrying. It's the thousands and thousands of other staff on lower but similarly bloated salaries.

    I do not think its underfunded, the problem we have no-one in this country who is able to run HSE either politically or manage...


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    #125
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    whippet wrote: »
    As I pointed out the outrages classes make comments like these

    How about an evidence based analysis of his competence. What are the trolley numbers like?


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    #126
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    A person with extensive experience working in a role where they have proven their competence. This is not managing a small business. This is turning around an extremely dysfunctional organisation which spends billions each year.

    An MBA without relevant experience? Would you make a recent college graduate CEO of a large company?

    High enough to attract someone capable of doing the job that needs doing.

    He is overpaid and massively underqualified.

    I get your argument now Paul Reid himself is overpaid, but 400k for someone else if they had already managed and tuned around a public services or health care company with 67,00 thousand direct employees.

    Turn around how exactly?

    67,000
    The HSE is the largest employer in the State, with more than 67,000 direct employees, and a further 35,000 employed by agencies funded by the HSE. Each employee plays a vital role in contributing to the HSE.

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/hr/#:~:text=The%20HSE%20is%20the%20largest,in%20contributing%20to%20the%20HSE.


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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    whippet wrote: »
    as I said - to the outraged classes that is true

    that’s not an argument. It’s a generalised ad hominem.


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    #128
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    stefanovich wrote: »
    He's referring to Sinn Fein voters I guess. I'm right wing.

    It doesn't matter whether you are left wing, right wing or a chicken wing the fact is that the cost of the Public Sector is too high in this country. Money is going more on wages than on providing a service and those services being fit for purpose.

    Is there any real need for anyone to be on over 200k in the Public service? If they want private sector wages then that needs to come with private sector conditions like redundancies, lay offs, performance targets, etc and all the other stuff that people in the private sector have to put up with that they don't have to in the Public sector. There needs to be an efficiency drive in the public sector and they need to cut the fat in the area's that need cutting and then use those cuts to bolster area's where people are needed like frontline services.


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    #129
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I get your argument now Paul Reid himself is overpaid, but 400k for someone else if they had already managed and tuned around a public services or health care company with 67,00 thousand direct employees.

    Turn around how exactly?

    Turn something that is unfit for purpose into something that is well run and good value for money.

    I think we need to completely overhaul health in this country.

    Either an insurance based model like Germany or free at point of delivery like the NHS.

    I'd prefer the former but anything would be better than we have now.


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    #130
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    stefanovich wrote: »
    That looks fair although realistically you needs to be high enough to attract the right person. The market should dictate this.

    Problem is it doesn't appear the role was open to the market or the decision makers are incompetent or corrupt or both.

    His salary and selection just illustrates the utter waste and incompetence in the public sector.

    It appears there was an open competition for the position.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-hse-chief-expected-to-receive-salary-of-just-over-300k-1.3844875

    After failing to attract a suitable candidate, the salary was increased by €50k.

    Market forces at work right there.


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    #131
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Deleted User wrote: »
    that’s not an argument. It’s a generalised ad hominem.

    Not sure where class comes in either.


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    #132
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Allinall wrote: »
    It appears there was an open competition for the position.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-hse-chief-expected-to-receive-salary-of-just-over-300k-1.3844875

    After failing to attract a suitable candidate, the salary was increased by €50k.

    Market forces at work right there.

    I'm guessing the pool was limited to the public sector managers in Ireland. Where's the detail?


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    #133
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    mariaalice wrote: »
    https://www.amedpost.com/up-to-350-nhs-managers-paid-more-than-pm-with-some-salaries-worth-hundreds-of-thousands/

    Can you quote where you found the figure? because you're link does not mention Stevens salary


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    #134
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'm guessing the pool was limited to the public sector managers in Ireland. Where's the detail?

    Where's your detail?

    Article says it was an "open competition".

    What makes you think it was restricted to public sector managers in ireland?


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    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where's your detail?

    Article says it was an "open competition".

    What makes you think it was restricted to public sector managers in ireland?

    Could be. Who else applied?


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    #136
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Allinall wrote: »
    Where's your detail?

    Article says it was an "open competition".

    What makes you think it was restricted to public sector managers in ireland?

    How did that money not attract someone capable?


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    #137
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    stefanovich wrote: »
    How did that money not attract someone capable?

    I've no idea.


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    #138
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    His energy and toughness as a negotiator did not go unnoticed. He was poached by the other side. By the time he left Eircom in 2010, he was director of networks and operations. The company had been flipped three or four times at that stage.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/paul-reid-has-a-record-of-delivering-big-projects-can-he-tame-the-hse-1.3925978

    Very interesting article.

    I would say he is very intelligent and nobody's fool.


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    #139
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Allinall wrote: »
    I've no idea.

    I could hazard a guess. Who decided to give him the job? Who were the competition? Can we get that information? Ultimately who runs the HSE is our decision.


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    #140
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    And also the report that there has been a 25% increase in the number of HSE employees earning €100,000+.

    Overtime due to covid.


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    #141
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    mariaalice wrote: »
    His energy and toughness as a negotiator did not go unnoticed. He was poached by the other side. By the time he left Eircom in 2010, he was director of networks and operations. The company had been flipped three or four times at that stage.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/paul-reid-has-a-record-of-delivering-big-projects-can-he-tame-the-hse-1.3925978

    Very interesting article.

    I would say he is very intelligent and nobody's fool.

    You make the fatal mistake of getting your information from a government propaganda rag.


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    #142
    Floppybits
    Registered Users Posts: 7,658 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    stefanovich wrote: »
    How did that money not attract someone capable?

    In fairness most competent folk would read the Job Description and then look at the HSE and see what a mess it is and not a chance would they take that on, then you are left with 2 types of people, those who see it a challenge and something worthwhile that they can get involved in and those that see the salary and have no ambition to make changes. First type of person is very hard to find and when you do find them they are worth their weight in gold, the second unfortunately can be found most places.


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    #143
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Can you quote where you found the figure? because you're link does not mention Stevens salary

    I think he just assumed that the highest paid manager in the NHS would be the Head of the NHS.

    It wouldn't really make sense for that to be the case as the NHS Trust heads have more responsible and massive amounts of autonomy.

    I checked 3 and they were all around 300k which is higher than the salary received by the head of the NHS.


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    #144
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I could hazard a guess. Who decided to give him the job? Who were the competition? Can we get that information? Ultimately who runs the HSE is our decision.

    What would your guess be?

    Who do you expect to answer all your questions?


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    #145
    Riodej1578
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭Riodej1578


    stefanovich wrote: »
    It's been reported that Paul Reid made €420,103 in 2020.

    What do people think? Is his compensation deserved?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-boss-paul-reids-salary-increases-to-e420103-5377067-Mar2021/

    Not unexpectedly I think it is an outrageous salary and illustrates quite brutally the waste that is endemic in the HSE.

    Why would he make more than the Taoiseach? Is he doing a good job?

    Doing an awful job. Disgraceful to be on that type of salary.


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    #146
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭Allinall


    stefanovich wrote: »
    You make the fatal mistake of getting your information from a government propaganda rag.

    Conspiracy Theory Forum >>>>>>>>>>


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    #147
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭whippet


    stefanovich wrote: »
    How about an evidence based analysis of his competence. What are the trolley numbers like?

    i'd have no problem with that - however the post I quoted wasn't that .. just a tirade of nonsense.

    So ... if you want evidence based analysis of his competence you first need to start with what his brief is (as in what he is employed to do - not what a randomer on Boards.ie or facebook thinks it is)

    From listening to an interview with him not so long ago - his main brief is around change and transformation ... but he was only in the door a wet week when Covid hit. So he has had to pivot the plan that he came in with.

    So maybe - just maybe - a person with a brief to manage change will need to assesed on what change he has delivered at the end of his tenure ... not in the midst of a global pandemic ... or by pulling out random trolly numbers from before his appointment


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    That's because it's easy to be a nurse and the country has lots of them.

    Anyone with a certain intellect and go to nursing school and become a nurse and spend their whole lives as a nurse on a ward.

    But if they want to be more then need to work harder, and study harder, and if they want to get off the wards and the shift work and get into management they need to work harder and study harder again, and if they want to rise all the way up to C level executive they have to work even harder, study even harder and be more driven.

    If they want to be CEO of the HSE on the other hand, leave school at 16, install telephone lines, and hey presto ... the guy has no scientific or medical background whatsoever. No wonder the whole thing is a mess.
    At age 16, Reid began his first job as a trainee installer at the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. The job involved connecting landline telephones to homes and businesses, climbing telephone poles on the roadside to run lines.[9] In 2005, Reid began his second job working for Eircom as an underground cable jointer and later qualified as a technician. By the time he left Eircom in 2010, he was Executive Director of Networks and Operations.[10]

    Studying at night, he took a Bachelor of Arts degree in Human Resources and Industrial Relations at the National College of Ireland, and later a Masters in Business Administration at Trinity College Dublin.[4][11]

    From 2010 to 2011, he worked as Head of Corporate Affairs with international development charity Trócaire, where he worked on an agenda to strengthen the overall governance of the organisation and on the implementation of best practice in HR, finance, risk management and communications.[4]

    From 2011 to 2014, Reid joined the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform as the Chief Operating Officer. In this role, he had a leading role in the development, implementation and oversight of the government's reform programme across the civil and public service.[12] His big project was to secure a saving of €1 billion in the second round of public service pay cuts, leading to the Haddington Road Agreement, a difficult proposition as ASTI rejected its findings.

    In 2014, he was appointed Chief Executive of Fingal County Council.[13]

    Following an open competition by the Public Appointment Service, Reid was appointed to his new position of Director-General at the Health Service Executive on 2 April 2019.[2] In his role he leads over 117,000 staff who deliver a wide range of health services across Ireland. He has said that his vision for the health service is to focus on long term planning by implementing Sláintecare and delivering effective and safe services within available resources.[14] Reid tweeted on Twitter that he left his position as Chief Executive of Fingal County Council on the same day he was appointed Director-General at the HSE.[15][16]


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    #149
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭whippet


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'm guessing the pool was limited to the public sector managers in Ireland. Where's the detail?

    your guessing wrong - it was an open competition


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    #150
    whippet
    Registered Users Posts: 7,688 ✭✭✭whippet


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I could hazard a guess. Who decided to give him the job? Who were the competition? Can we get that information? Ultimately who runs the HSE is our decision.

    no it's not ... what is your qualification for vetting the CEO of the largest organisation in the state ?


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    #151
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    His big project was to secure a saving of €1 billion in the second round of public service pay cuts, leading to the Haddington Road Agreement, a difficult proposition as ASTI rejected its findings.

    I could be wrong but that might have had something to do with him getting the job.

    Anyway, I would not take the job even for a million a year. I'd say it's a nightmare.


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