Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122378241#Comment_122378241

Give it a few days and the media will be demanding Osbourne moves to "insert province name"

For the good of Irish rugby you know and all that

johnh6767

Leinster coaching staff are more adept at reading the tea leaves than is given credit for on this forum. Of course they have benefited from seeing the class of Osborne & Frawley coming of age, and will be mindful not to have to be led by the National team on such important selection steps in the future . 2 half backs in particular where you have a changing of the guard and some great younger talent coming through, Frawley , Prendergast, Gunne, Foley, now approaching prime contenders v Ross , Harry, Luke , each a very different profile & prospect but deserves huge consideration

Burkie1203

Leinsters biggest issue is at 10.

Ross Byrne is a problem. Frawley is far more athletic, dynamic so it poses a very big question.

Interested Observer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122378241#Comment_122378241

What combo of Keenan, Osborne, Ringrose, Henshaw and Barrett he selects isn't going to make-or-break the season, honestly you could pin their names on the wall and throw darts at them to select the team and things would work out alright they're all such good players.

The season hinges on what he does at 10. If it's more of the same then I honestly think it's time for Leo's position to come under scrutiny.

johnh6767

I agree biggest issue is 10. 2nd biggest issue is 9 as JGP is on his final laps, longer the better of course, but you need a clear 2nd choice to play out 2 tournaments and withstand the reality of injury , fatigue and last 10% in career journey. JGP has a responsibility to bring the next generation through, but Leo/ coaches must also be brave as having Luke on the bench whilst afraid to bring him on is not the way to go for a world class club team. Let’s not wait for Andy Farrell to identify the next generation for Leinster 9 is my point. We have an abundance of talent for other backs positions. Competition even at 15 now which we couldn’t have anticipated. But Gunne & Foley must be given game time. Frawley, Osborne, Prendergast adds to the selection luxury dilemma . Next up is props , same issues coming fast

Tim Robbins

Sorry @Clo-Clo, could you explain Frawley at ten not working out? From memory he looked well there and got a few MOMs there

BoardsMember

JGP has a responsibility to bring the next generation through? I've heard it all now!

Anyway, the thing that occurred to me was how much more physical Ireland were with Beirne at 6. It makes me more interested than ever in seeing a starting back row of Doris, Josh, Conan.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379062#Comment_122379062

I think POM is in a similar position to Ross Byrne for me. They are not very athletic when you compare them to opponents

PSDT as an example in backrow.

Baird, Beirne are far better options.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379062#Comment_122379062

so you don’t feel that those towards the end of their career , last 10%, have any responsibility to passing on the skill set , mind & body , that they have developed inside Leinster to the next generation of players ? Really ?This is a team sport , I’m sure those who are at the top feel differently and this is representative of the Leinster culture

BoardsMember

To bring the next generation through? I think thats a reach. That is for the coaches in their selection, technical coaching etc. I get what you are getting at, but I think the incumbent is more there to show how hard to train, how focused in drills etc. JGP is a winner, he'll be trying to squeeze every ladt drop out of his career.

Tim Robbins

POM brings guile, leadership which compliments the more technical Leinster players.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379839#Comment_122379839

Sorry but I think that's nowhere near enough.

johnh6767

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379141#Comment_122379141

Yes he certainly leads by example , he sets the pace , so up to the next line to prove they have the same chutzpah discipline and work ethic , will know very soon new seasons beckons

theVersatile

Malcolm Marx injury joker in 3...2…1...

(Presumably Slimani will be confirmed today)

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1812779043936256370?t=cehw4YrgZodzfv8Lcn2WFQ&s=19

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122379851#Comment_122379851

If he was bringing great play in the traditional sense, you'd just say so.

This happens with great players on the down slope. Rory Best brought all kinds of benefits in the 2019 world cup apart from actually being great at the job of hooker on the pitch.

IIt's OK to let older players go and being captain should not complicate selection in the slightest. It might reflect badly on the coach that he picked a player who isn't the best in their position anymore, but they should pick the best team on the day.

Burkie1203

Slimani confirmed

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1812790965616455860?t=wLLjgEzmsopiVwhJl2nk0Q&s=19

Gonna need more popcorn

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Leinster Rugby can this morning confirm the signing of former French international front row, Rabah Slimani.

The tighthead prop, who has played nearly 300 games in the TOP14 with Stade Francais and most recently, Clermont Auvergne, will join Leinster Rugby for the start of their pre-season training programme next week in UCD.

Speaking to leinsterrugby.ie, Leinster Rugby Head Coach, Leo Cullen said of the 57-times capped French prop, “We are delighted that Rabah has decided to join us at Leinster Rugby. He is a player we have long admired with vast experience at the highest level of TOP14, European and international rugby. “We believe he will be a great addition to the group, not only providing competition for the first team but also helping some of our young front row players learn and develop. “I am sure all Leinster supporters will join me in welcoming Rabah and his family when they get the opportunity.”

theVersatile

As much as I usually don't buy the whole "if Leinster don't win the Champions Cup, the season is a failure" mindset; I do genuinely believed with the amount of help they've received this year in recruitment that anything less than the Champions Cup this coming season is a catastrophic underachievement.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

fantastic, thanks for the amazing contribution.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382755#Comment_122382755

That is unquestionably the biggest load of horse manure I've heard so far today and I had to sit through a classic meeting that should have been an email on forecasts…

If Frawleys DG (the one that he himself professed he struck better than the one that won the game in South Africa) goes 6" the other way this conversation doesn't happen because Leinster are reigning European champions.

A game swings on a knife edge. Sometimes you lose and deserve it. Sometimes you lose and don't. And vice versa with winning.

In a game literally anything can happen. It's part of the beauty of sport.

It's extremely grating to lose as many as we have on the bounce. But it's only fractionally as grating as reading posters like yourself lump the entire season on one tiny defining moment.

There are other flaws in Leinster season as a whole. Particularly squad management as a whole. And even more particularly at 10. I am disappointed at how Leinsters season went. But losing that final on a moment wasn't the defining reason of my overall disappointment.

But to say it's an underachievement and lazily point to "help" is just nonsensical.

Former Former Former

The Leinster squad will be no stronger next season than this.

Slimani is a good signing but he'll be 35 at the start of the season, I'd have been happier with Ala'alatoa staying on. Snyman is OK but we've also lost Molony and Jenkins. Barrett is obviously fantastic but if we have everyone fit, I'm not sure we really need him.

Against that, the loss of Sheehan is massive, assuming he's out at least until the new year.

The only way we're a stronger squad next season is if we get major progress from some of our young players. The signings are window dressing tbh.

There's also the little matter of Toulouse standing between us and the Champions Cup.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382890#Comment_122382890

It's still early AB, I'm sure you'll hear worse today :P

On a more serious note, I agree that in most situations (including last season) that seasons should generally be looked at more holistically with regards to the whole circumstances rather than reacting to one singular 80 minute (or in last season's case, 100 minutes game).

I'm aware there are other issues - I gave a level headed breakdown of such after the URC and Champions Cup final losses if you care to read back. Injuries played a huge factor in the latter.

But ultimately, this investment in player resources is coming so Leinster can win competitions. EPCR prize money and a fifth star is the goal to reimburse this investment - simple as that. And to be perfectly honest, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to win the CC with this squad for this coming season. It's probably the strongest squad ever assembled by a single province.

And if Frawley had slotted the winning drop goal to win v Toulouse, then the pressure to win this year again would be even higher due to the drastic improvements made to the squad. The idea that this conversation wouldn't be happening doesn't add up.

Obviously, if some catastrophic circumstances happens that Leinster have to field a weakened team in a SF or a final, I'm not going to be saying "uuuuuuhhh Leinster bottlers failure again" with drool rolling down my mouth. But if they have a full strength squad for those games, they have no excuses IMO.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382771#Comment_122382771

Likewise x

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382890#Comment_122382890

That's the beauty of sport. They can put together a great season and it came down to a DG that misses by that little.

They're doing their best and they either win or they don't. It's not all about the final, it's a long season and if you followed it all, you'll have been well entertained for the most part.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382956#Comment_122382956

I'm sorry mate but you cannot chalk an entire season up to one moment. A sweeping statement like that for such a nuanced concept is ill informed, lazy or just plain ignorant.

Toulouse won by a combination of one of the greatest players to ever play the game having one of the greatest performances in recent times, a missed DG and some Leinster inaccuracy. Say what you will about the final overall. Any number of things going slightly the other way, we're lifting that trophy.

Having the biggest, strongest, richest, deepest, meanest, internationalist squad does not give you the right to win.

If we get to the final next year - great. If we do everything fantastically well, greater. But no one wins finals at a cake walk anymore. Tangible things often don't go your way. A dodgy TMO or ref decision. A key injury at an inopportune time. A yellow card from a tiny inaccuracy at one of the 200+ rucks seen in the game. A poor decision made under fatigue and pressure in isolation from a players general form.

Like it or not, you need luck to win finals. We were lucky in 2018. We've been unlucky since.

If we lose the final next year it will be down to the aforementioned reasons. Not a "catastrophic underachievement"

Interested Observer

After that series I'm a bit less enthusiastic about Snyman than I was previously. Even aside from the Casey incident, he's a different player but not particularly better than Ryan or McCarthy, we pretty clearly saw that at the weekend. The amount of smoke that got blown up his arse for never playing for Munster was a bit weird.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122383034#Comment_122383034

Again, I completely understand the factors that went into losing last year - but I'm talking about this coming season.

I'm sensible enough to assess things as they happen - so if something unlucky does happen I'm happy to re-evaluate my stance and say "yeah no, nothing ye could've done there".

But from a pure merit point of view, I don't think any team has the quality that a fully fit (important caveat) Leinster XXIII will have next season, even Toulouse. They'll have good players (or in the case of Antoine, f'n outstanding superstar players) - but Leinster's best 23 will have a Man City (for lack of a better phrase) esque quality to them whereby players on the bench will be just as good as the players they're replacing. I don't think any other team will have that from 16-23.

Podge_irl

If Leinster go a 4th season without winning anything it will indeed be a catastrophic underachievement over that period.

Games go one way or another and obviously luck plays a factor. I wouldn't make such a grand statement about any individual season. But it would be the culmination of a period of unacceptable lack of success.

But it hasn't happened yet so let's not worry.

arsebiscuits1

The more I think about it. The more I can understand theVersitile and Podges points.

Losing next years final should we reach it would point to a great underachievement for Leinster over this period of talent we have.

It doesn't fill me with joy to justify and excuse Leinsters 3 most recent losses in European finals. I do remain steadfast in my opinion that these finals were lost on the tiniest of separate moments that don't fairly reflect the Leinster squads ability and mental fortitude as a whole.

But I can concede that in 10 years time, if we look back at this period of Leinster rugby and it bears no European success, there's a strong argument to call it an underachievement.

Sport does remember results. And the results of recent years haven't gone our way.

So I consider it unfair to chalk up years of hard work to tiny moments.

Sport is not fair though

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122383040#Comment_122383040

Was never really that enthusiastic about him, but he's still an upgrade on Jenkins off the bench.