Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122499607#Comment_122499607

What did he actually do during the RWC though? It’s all well and good to say he has 2 RWC medals. But if that’s all people can point to as opposed to actually talk about the impact he has on games or the big plays he comes up with, then it’s hard to know exactly what that means.

Fergus McFadden has multiple 6Ns medals to his name and was a regular bench option for Ireland across 2014 and 2015. Dave Kearney was a regular starter. These guys weren’t world class players, or even among the best players in their positions in the NH. But they have more medals than many of those better players at the time.

I’m not saying Snyman is a bad player. But this whole “one of the best in the world, double RWC winner” talk is, in my own opinion, blowing him and his performances up beyond all recognisable proportions. If you have to go back 6 years to find the last time he started back to back Test games then he can’t be all that. And when you struggle to point to his accomplishments in the last 12 months as a player (as opposed to his teams accomplishments) then is he really living up to the rep?

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500658#Comment_122500658

It was a good try in the semi against England.

I don't really see too much downside to the signing. He'll bench behind McCarthy and Ryan. Even if he's underwhelming it's hard not to see him being an upgrade on Molony and Jenkins in terms of ability to influence really big games. If he's unavailable Baird can shift to covering second row for big games or Deeny can come into the XXIII if he makes a big leap forward.

The real questions are how strong will Deeny and O'Tighearnaigh be for regular season games while the internationals are having their minutes managed and how do they cope if Ryan or McCarthy pick up an injury. Would it be better to start Deeny over Snyman in that scenario, with Snyman continuing on the bench?

Former Former Former

Yeah, simply being part of a great squad cannot make you world class, you need to show it on the field and RGS has simply never done that.

I think the issue with him has been that he arrived as a World Cup winner, so we all assumed he was awesome, then we spent four years saying "when he gets back to fitness, he'll be amazing", but no one here had ever seen him perform to the levels being attributed to him.

It's only a month since posters here were claiming he'd be the best lock at Leinster on his first day in camp, one of the best players in the squad full stop, a game changer on huge money etc.

Now he's he finally got a run of games for Munster and SA and he's been underwhelming at best.

So now we don't know if a) he was never as good as claimed, b) all the injuries have taken their toll or c) he's still working back to full fitness and form and Leinster will see the best of him.

Obviously I'm hoping for c but my money is on a.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Munster fans were posting that he'd start over Ryan, which I dont think many leinster fans agreed with.

He was a difference maker off the bench in the recent world cup.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Leinster Rugby U-18s Schools vs Ulster Rugby:

15. Billy Cross (Newbridge College)

14. Geoff O’Sullivan (Terenure College)

13. Ronan Kelly (St Gerard’s School)

12. Bernard White (Blackrock College)

11. Ethan Balamash (Terenure College)

10. Cory O’Connor (Castleknock College)

9. Luke Coffey (Blackrock College)

1. Conor Canniffe (St Michael’s College)

2. Lee Fitzpatrick (Newbridge College) CAPTAIN

3. Harry Goslin (Belvedere College)

4. Max Egan (St Mary’s College)

5. Jonathon Ginnety (Castleknock College)

6. Ben O’Toole (Castleknock College)

7. Owen Twomey (St Michael’s College)

8. Josh Mooney (Terenure College)

16. Marcus McCarthy (Belvedere College)

17. Ben Guerin (Blackrock College)

18. Henry Maher (Cistercian College Roscrea)

19. Isaac Reid (Wesley College)

20. Geoff Wall (Blackrock College)

21. Josh Mulligan (Gonzaga College)

22. Andrew Stronge (St Mary’s College)

23. Paul Neary (St Mary’s College)

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500675#Comment_122500675

I don't really see too much downside to the signing

Sure, if we had an unlimited pool of money and NIQ spots, but we don't. So it has to be weighted against what else could have been done with it.

I think there is decent upside potential, but I also think he has a lot to prove and I tend to think he won't in the end. That's obviously conjecture, but that's 90% of what we do here.

50HX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122500658#Comment_122500658

Some valid points made there

For us I thought he's return for the run for the 22/23 season was v timely( no joke intended 😉) and he's offloading had a big impact in the 2 games v the stormers.

No doubt he has question marks & is definitely not a starter

He's impact is from the bench & slotting into a star studded leinster side with 25min to go may gloss over alot of your concerns, alternatively ye could be raving about him nxt May

It will be interesting to watch...roll on Oct 12th first off😁

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502037#Comment_122502037

I don't watch as much rugby as I used to so I'm not too up on who else could have been signed instead.

Matt Philip maybe? He's moved to Japan recently, so might have been available. He's got a nice ball-handling game, similar enough to Snyman actually.

Or maybe keep one of Molony and Jenkins on instead of getting Snyman.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

HT: Ulster schools 13 - 12 Leinster schools

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502476#Comment_122502476

If we're just talking about impact from the bench for big games, then surely RG is better than Jenkins. They're both available for SA and they only pick one of them for the same role.

I'm happy to wait and see how he gets on. I don't buy the idea that RG isn't that good. From what ice seen of him at munster, he's good even if he hasn't lived up to the hype.

All the caveats around fitness are valid. But I take it Leinster plan to use him as an impact sub, not an 80 minute workhorse. So, it makes sense, even if I don't love it.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502725#Comment_122502725

That's pretty much my thinking too.

Maybe the negativity is coming from how foreign a concept it is in Ireland to have a second row who is conditioned to play 35 minutes of rugby. There seems to be quite a drop off in his performance level if he has to play most of the match. That's unusual. But it could be just what Leinster need. Ryan and McCarthy is an excellent starting combo.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

FT: Ulster 34 - 31 Leinster

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502800#Comment_122502800

Yeah, Snyman is a high quality lock when it comes to scrum and line out, he's a good defender and has very good hands. If he makes a few off loads and runs while maintaining the standards set by the other two then happy days for Leinster.

arsebiscuits1

Posted this on LF. I dug into the minutes played by our Tightheads last season trying to get a picture of this coming season.

Minutes pulled from a combination of All Rugby and Leinsters site - may not be 100% accurate but just to give a ball park figure and a prediction of how the minutes might be allocated this season. We played 28 games so 2240 minutes. So a slight discrepancy below which is more than likely the CC final extra 20.

First thought is it's absolutely crazy we only used 4 tightheads for the entirety of last season. And one of them only had 3 apps off the bench and didn't appear after R3 of the URC.

The crazier thing is I think we realistically are only going to use 4 THs again this coming season as our 2 Y1 intakes I don't think will be ready for senior rugby. Sparrow might get a couple of minutes perhaps.

23/24

Ala'alatoa - 947 (25 games)
Furlong - 659 (13 games)
Clarkson - 581 (14 games)
McGuire - 72 (3 games)

Assuming 29 games and 2320 minute this season (please god)

24/25

Slimani - 720 (~15 games, 48 mins per game)
Clarkson - 720 (~15 games, 48 mins per game)
Furlong - 670 (~13 games, 52 mins per game)
McGuire - 210 (~8 games, 27 mins per game)

(the games don't quite match up. It was more an exercise on minutes)

I think it's a reasonable outlook. I don't think we plan to (or will be allowed to) use Slimani nearly as much as Ala'alatoa.

I think Furlong and Clarksons minutes are largely what we can expect. It's possible that some of Slimanis minutes go to McGuire depending on how he fares going forward this season and we may see Sparrow do 40 minutes in a bench cameo in a game or 2. And Healy for emergencies then I guess.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502800#Comment_122502800

Because conditioning a lock to play 35 minutes in club rugby is absolutely mental

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122502800#Comment_122502800

And if he has to come on after 5 mins due to an injury? Nobody is conditioning any rugby player to play less than half a rugby game. It would be stupid. Snymans match fitness just isn’t where it needs to be. Whether it can get back to where it needs to be remains to be seen.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505915#Comment_122505915

I think basing a players overall match fitness and conditioning solely on minutes played is an oversimplification too. They are pro althetes. They can absolutely go whatever distance over the 80 is required of them and some pros set themselves apart from others by tailoring this in game.

Snyman is well able to do an 80 minute shift if that's required of him.

Using Ala'alatoa as an example. He had just 8 starts of his 25 games for Leinster last season. Averaged 37 minutes a game for us. But he still played the full 80 away to La Rochelle.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122505949#Comment_122505949

Whenever I saw Snyman start for Munster at the end of the season (he started a couple that I saw), the guy was absolutely gassed towards the end of the first half or start of the second. It’s this along with the fact that he’s just not seen as an option to start games all that often that I’m basing my opinion on. He rarely does it, and when I’ve seen him try he has faded badly long before the game has ended. It’s somewhat understandable given his injuries and he might be able to turn it around if he can stay fit (I say this knowing he’s injured yet again!). But I’ve seen nothing from the guy to suggest you could back him to go 80 right now.

Former Former Former

Snyman absolutely cannot do 80 minutes. His conditioning is appalling.

And that's fine for SA, because Etzebeth, de Jager and Mostert are the starting locks and RGS never starts any meaningful games. He can come on, empty the tank in 20 minutes and that's what they use him for, maybe it's what we plan to do with him as well, but an 80-minute player he is not.

Even in the summer series against Ireland, he was blowing hard soon enough after coming off the bench.

Sheep Shagger

Next week...

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/2024/08/15/leinster-rugby-hitting-the-sunny-south-east-for-open-sessions/?fbclid=IwY2xjawEq-0hleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQ0XzIRtJiFJO-OhxO99vQmAkXdFvJLx4b-YApIUzQ600fleGR8yL3FtUg_aem_RjWG64WaMPG9hp6BRg1A_w&sfnsn=mo

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122501054#Comment_122501054

Came away fairly impressed by the hooker btw. Shaped more like a flanker but his throws were inch perfect.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122507476#Comment_122507476

Thanks. Anyone else at all stand out? From either side?

RichieRich_89

Team to start the season?

1. Michael Milne
2. Lee Barron
3. Thomas Clarkson
4. Conor O'Tighearnaigh
5. Brian Deeny
6. Ryan Baird
7. Will Connors
8. Max Deegan
9. Luke McGrath
10. Ciarán Frawley
11. Jordan Larmour
12. Ben Brownlee
13. Jimmy O'Brien
14. Tommy O'Brien
15. Jamie Osborne
16. John McKee
17. Cian Healy
18. Rabah Slimani
19. Diarmuid Mangan
20. Scott Penny
21. Cormac Foley
22. Ross Byrne
23. Robert Russell

I'd have the following players down to miss rounds 2 and 3 because they'd be with Emerging Ireland:

Jack Boyle, Paddy McCarthy, Gus McCarthy, Rory McGuire, Liam Molony, James Culhane, Fintan Gunne, Sam Prendergast, Charlie Tector, Hugh Cooney, Henry McErlean

lonester99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511464#Comment_122511464

I'd be starting boyle already, Milne will never be able to scrummage

amykl_1987

.....

https://twitter.com/tanguyscigala/status/1824485206511767609?t=sC6-Hvne0FlbArJuIoOJVg&s=19

Locke_Lamora

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122510803#Comment_122510803

Not particularly tbh, there was some good rugby played but I'm not familiar with the players and often missed their numbers when something good happened. Went along as it was our (ulster's) best schools side in years but I wouldn't have been able to pick out which players are our best prospects on that game alone. Ulster made a lot of errors in the fist 3/4's of the game but started looking dangerous when the forwards started making yards in contact and they had a bit more continuity.

I do remember the 3 making some strong carries, he wasn't as big as the Ulster front row but was a more mobile carrier. Leinster played the better rugby for most of the game and I wouldn't be surprised to see them win the return fixture, probably only lost because they couldn't really defend out maul. The 12 looked decent in contact as well and was probably as tall as any of the their forwards who, despite being a bit smaller than Ulster, didn't play like it.

None of that is really helpful unfortunately - it was a good game without any standouts, one of those ones you'd need to be able to watch back to pick out the small things players did well.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122511744#Comment_122511744

Wouldn't be shocked if he left for a couple years to be honest though what a waste going to Bayonne.