Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

With Henshaw tiring and Sexton already off I figured it was just concern over using Lowe and then having nobody left if someone pulled up. He came on for a few mins though didn't he?

No he didn't come on

thomond2006

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What do people make of Lowe not coming on? There could be nothing to it but my take is that the coaches are concerned about his confidence in defence and were only going to use him if forced to or if the score margin was wider.

He really does need game time though - he wasn't as bad as made out over the six nations but he still needs to shake off the tournament and get back some of the confidence he has undoubtedly lost.

Bringing Lowe on would have put an out of confidence player in the firing line. He'll have the Rainbow games to get back into form.

sydthebeat

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bringing Lowe on would have put an out of confidence player in the firing line. He'll have the Rainbow games to get back into form.

I've a feeling he'll start versus toulon

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bringing Lowe on would have put an out of confidence player in the firing line. He'll have the Rainbow games to get back into form.

What firing line?

Buer

It's been an interesting campaign with some very good performances and levels of devleopment. It has also called into question our lack of depth/options in one or two areas, most notably scrum half and also potentially the back three (where call ups and injuries have been extreme, in fairness). If Cian Kelleher departs as rumoured, we're going to be stretched again next season, assuming two from Lowe, Larmour and Keenan will be in the Irish 23 at times.

Nick McCarthy returning is looking like a relatively solid piece of business at this point as someone who can cover the Pro14 team. Our depth behind the two front liners is pretty bleak. HOS was the big hope there a couple of years ago but looks a good bit off Pro14 level for the most part.

Luke McGrath has had a phenomenal season though. 16 appearances from 17 in the Pro14 (missing only the Ospreys game, I believe) and 7 tries in those games. I think his omission from the Irish squad forced him to assume a real leadership role with Leinster and he's improved as a result to the point where his direction and decision making has improved significantly (and it was already one of his strengths). His passing is never going to be top class (Cian Healy learning this at the weekend) but his all round game really is very good. That kick from the base of the scrum in the middle of the pitch at the weekend was possibly the single most impressive moment from any player at the weekend. It was a one score game, Munster were getting a little bit of possession and territory for the past few minutes and then they found themselves 50m downfield, trying to secure their ball around their own 22 again. You could see the dejection on Earls' face as the ball beat him.

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/McGrathKick1.gif

phily2002

Buer wrote: »

It's been an interesting campaign with some very good performances and levels of devleopment. It has also called into question our lack of depth/options in one or two areas, most notably scrum half and also potentially the back three (where call ups and injuries have been extreme, in fairness). If Cian Kelleher departs as rumoured, we're going to be stretched again next season, assuming two from Lowe, Larmour and Keenan will be in the Irish 23 at times.

Nick McCarthy returning is looking like a relatively solid piece of business at this point as someone who can cover the Pro14 team. Our depth behind the two front liners is pretty bleak. HOS was the big hope there a couple of years ago but looks a good bit off Pro14 level for the most part.

Luke McGrath has had a phenomenal season though. 16 appearances from 17 in the Pro14 (missing only the Ospreys game, I believe) and 7 tries in those games. I think his omission from the Irish squad forced him to assume a real leadership role with Leinster and he's improved as a result to the point where his direction and decision making has improved significantly (and it was already one of his strengths). His passing is never going to be top class (Cian Healy learning this at the weekend) but his all round game really is very good. That kick from the base of the scrum in the middle of the pitch at the weekend was possibly the single most impressive moment from any player at the weekend. It was a one score game, Munster were getting a little bit of possession and territory for the past few minutes and then they found themselves 50m downfield, trying to secure their ball around their own 22 again. You could see the dejection on Earls' face as the ball beat him.

https://s4.gifyu.com/images/McGrathKick1.gif

Pretty sure that was a forward that gave the pass to Healy, Fardy maybe?

Buer

phily2002 wrote: »

Pretty sure that was a forward that gave the pass to Healy, Fardy maybe?

My mistake, if so.

I suppose the only negative thing is that I'd readily have believed it was McGrath based on some previous passing displays. That's probably somewhat unfair of me though given how good he was at the weekend.

sydthebeat

phily2002 wrote: »

Pretty sure that was a forward that gave the pass to Healy, Fardy maybe?

pretty sure it was McGrath

it was certainly mentioned by the comms as being from him... along the lines of "healy wont be very thankful to mcgrath for that pass".... IIRC

phily2002

sydthebeat wrote: »

pretty sure it was McGrath

it was certainly mentioned by the comms as being from him... along the lines of "healy wont be very thankful to mcgrath for that pass".... IIRC

I thought a replay showed a forward passing but maybe I'm mixing it up with a different one

arsebiscuits1

sydthebeat wrote: »

pretty sure it was McGrath

it was certainly mentioned by the comms as being from him... along the lines of "healy wont be very thankful to mcgrath for that pass".... IIRC

There was a pass given to Healy in the Munster 22 in the first half that was an out and out hospital pass and he got mullered as a result.

Initially I thought it was McGrath who threw it but it was definitely Fardy

arsebiscuits1

Buer wrote: »

It's been an interesting campaign with some very good performances and levels of devleopment. It has also called into question our lack of depth/options in one or two areas, most notably scrum half and also potentially the back three (where call ups and injuries have been extreme, in fairness). If Cian Kelleher departs as rumoured, we're going to be stretched again next season, assuming two from Lowe, Larmour and Keenan will be in the Irish 23 at times.


https://s4.gifyu.com/images/McGrathKick1.gif

On the back 3 point - I don't think we will be overly stretched as we were just straight up unlucky.

Having Adam Byrne unavailable for the entire season was definitely not in the works.

Also having COB unavailable for the whole season put to bed the (presumed) plan of having ROL on the wing when needed.

Add to that TOB missing a huge amount of rugby put to bed another option we had in the back 3.

Having one of those 3 available at any one time is enough to get some decent cover in the squad. Losing them all simultaneously to long term injuries was unlucky.

Assuming they come back fit and firing next season we have a lot more breathing room.

Back 3 depth next year could look like

15 - Keenan, JOB, Larmour, MOR, Silvester (if kept)
14 - Larmour, TOB, ROL, Byrne, Smith
11 - DK, Lowe, JOB, Comerford

Obviously not a fixed chart and some people double up based on availability etc. But it's a good picture.

Kelleher has been excellent this season, but a big part of his excellence has been he's stayed fit when we really needed him

phily2002

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

There was a pass given to Healy in the Munster 22 in the first half that was an out and out hospital pass and he got mullered as a result.

Initially I thought it was McGrath who threw it but it was definitely Fardy

Yeah that's the one I was thinking of

molloyjh

O'Reilly has certainly stepped up for us recently so that helps ease any back 3 concerns. Dave isn't slowing down any either. I wouldn't be banking on Adam Byrne being fit and available though tbh. His injury profile is really poor and I think we need to be viewing our depth charts there without him in some ways (although I have included him below).

If COB and TOB come back from injury I wonder will ROL be moved to the wing in the same way Ferg was. We are pretty well covered in the centres. It might be a good use of resources to get ROL featuring more on the wing.

10: Sexton, R Byrne, H Byrne, Corkery
11: Kearney, Lowe, ROL
12: Henshaw, Frawley, COB, Hawkshaw
13: Ringrose, TOB, Turner, Osborne
14: Larmour, A Byrne, Smith
15: Keenan, JOB, O'Reilly

Throw in the likes of Silvester and Comerford and we are in reasonably good shape outside of 9. I'd agree with Buer though, we are light at 9. I'm also concerned about LH. Going from 2 Lions tourists to what we have now is a serious drop in a few years. Hopefully Milne in particular can make the step up, but its an area of concern for Leinster and Ireland.

Clegg

Tommy O'Brien has a big future at Leinster I think. He's played all across the backline and stood out every time. He's the ideal 23 right now.

Although, we may want to give him one position to focus on and excel there. Don't want him being in a position where he's decent everywhere but brilliant nowhere.

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

Tommy O'Brien has a big future at Leinster I think. He's played all across the backline and stood out every time. He's the ideal 23 right now.

Although, we may want to give him one position to focus on and excel there. Don't want him being in a position where he's decent everywhere but brilliant nowhere.

The Jack of all master of none is a tough title to hold. Especially to succeed at the highest level.

Tough call to make for Tommy too. Has enormous potential at 13 and 14 especially. They'll need to make the right call for him and back him. He's been a center the whole way up.

Dubinusa

Adam Byrne and his injury history is troublesome. Would he be worth the investment? Rugby is a tough business and obviously there are no guarantees, but Byrne would probably command a decent wage, with little return. I suppose C.O.B would be in a similar position, but with the financial strain on the provinces from the pandemic, I would be surprised if both were renewed.
We have been fortunate that the academy players have come in and made strides. We also are lucky to have the quality of ROL who plays wing to a very high standard. I think Cian Kelleher leaving would be a blow for us. He played some really good rugby this year. If the finances dictate who gets re signed, I would keep Kelleher.
The scrum half situation is not so much of a problem. McCarthy can fill in competently and I assume Patterson will be retained. But, the lack of 9's coming through the system is alarming.
I hope Sylvester gets a run of matches during the rainbow cup. It would be an opportunity to see what he offers. His year has also been an injury mess and I wonder if he would be let go.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/1376524054098665478?s=19

Former Former Former

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/cullen-issues-leinster-rugby-injury-update-toulon/

Expansion of the above. I'm sure they'll get Sexton onto the pitch but the continued absence of Ryan is a worry. That will be three weeks out since the Scotland game.

Buer

Bit odd considering Thornley reported the following after Saturday:

Encouragingly, Johnny Sexton should be okay after apparently completing his HIA, by which stage there were only a few minutes left.

I'd have been hoping for a couple of guys to get back into things this Friday. Not many changes that can be made to the 23 as it stands. Potentially freshen things up a little with Dooley, Cronin and Bent coming into the 23 but don't see more than one of them coming in as it stands.

Clegg

Huge blow if Sexton and Ross are out. There'll be a lot of pressure on Henshaw to ease Harry Byrne into the game.

I also think Baird has to start against Toulon. They've a very big pack and we'll need his athleticism to combat that. Toner and Fardy have played a lot of games on the bounce now and may not be the freshest.

molloyjh

Odds on Frawley at 12 on Friday? Henshaw may move out to 13 but he's also high on minutes for a 6 day turnaround.

Interested Observer

I'd go with Frawley/Henshaw in the centre. I think with that combo a couple of the try scoring chances in the first half would have been converted. Though tbh it's just Sexton and Byrne doubtful from the Munster game, I'd say Sexton will make it but there's very little case for changes, that was such a good performance. Suppose going through what could change.

Front row - reckon Furlong will probably start
Second row - could stay the same or bring in Baird
Backrow - no case for changing, everyone else is injured
Halfbacks - Luke McG for sure to start with Sexton hopefully
Centre - Frawley for ROL the only change I can see
Back three - Dave and Keenan have to start imo, possibly see Lowe for Larmour? Both seem well off form tbh

I kinda sorta want to see how Harry Byrne would go starting against Toulon...

arsebiscuits1

Dubinusa wrote: »

Adam Byrne and his injury history is troublesome. Would he be worth the investment? Rugby is a tough business and obviously there are no guarantees, but Byrne would probably command a decent wage, with little return. I suppose C.O.B would be in a similar position, but with the financial strain on the provinces from the pandemic, I would be surprised if both were renewed.
We have been fortunate that the academy players have come in and made strides. We also are lucky to have the quality of ROL who plays wing to a very high standard. I think Cian Kelleher leaving would be a blow for us. He played some really good rugby this year. If the finances dictate who gets re signed, I would keep Kelleher.
The scrum half situation is not so much of a problem. McCarthy can fill in competently and I assume Patterson will be retained. But, the lack of 9's coming through the system is alarming.
I hope Sylvester gets a run of matches during the rainbow cup. It would be an opportunity to see what he offers. His year has also been an injury mess and I wonder if he would be let go.

With regards to Adam Byrne. I think he's going to see the full harshness of professional rugby. Especially in a cash strapped time.

If I were Leinster I'd be tabling a very small contract and his options are pretty much to take it or pack it in.

By the start of next year, he'd have played no senior rugby in essentially 2 years. Not many clubs out there who'd be willing to take a punt on him. Maybe one of the US clubs.

thomond2006

Harry Byrne and Louis Carbonel. That could be fun.

dub_skav

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

With regards to Adam Byrne. I think he's going to see the full harshness of professional rugby. Especially in a cash strapped time.

If I were Leinster I'd be tabling a very small contract and his options are pretty much to take it or pack it in.

By the start of next year, he'd have played no senior rugby in essentially 2 years. Not many clubs out there who'd be willing to take a punt on him. Maybe one of the US clubs.

Plus, unfortunately for him, if Leinster were to not re-sign him. The club that have given him many chances, have always been keen to give him game time and are seeing him through his rehab
I'm not sure any other club would take the chance.

Squidgy Black

All you fools believing that Sexton and Ross are really injured, was all just part of the plan to get Harry to start since we've been saving him as he's too good for the Pro14.

Burkie1203

Fardy leaving and Toner possibly retiring. Leo should get on the blower to Ahern. Purely for the craic of it.


https://twitter.com/rugby_ie/status/1376538865478070276?s=19

crisco10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I kinda sorta want to see how Harry Byrne would go starting against Toulon...

It would be interesting alright. Especially surrounded by the first XV.

I just can't get over how stretched leinster have been yet kept winning. I'd echo others comments re Luke, think he is in with a shout of being our player of season. When all else has been shifting around him, he's been consistently quality. I'd forgive the odd bad pass, for the leadership he has given. Particularly when we get close to the line and do the pick and jam ad infinitum until the try scores. He's driving that patience.

dub_skav wrote: »

Plus, unfortunately for him, if Leinster were to not re-sign him. The club that have given him many chances, have always been keen to give him game time and are seeing him through his rehab
I'm not sure any other club would take the chance.

Surely the best he"d get would be pay for play somewhere.

BoardsMember

How strong is the Toner retirement talk? Obviously it's signalled with he, Bent and Fardy holding up the cup. I'd love to see him stay on another year. He could contribute so much, even if he was playing fewer games.