Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726046#Comment_119726046

His career probably hasn't progressed the way he had hoped and I know there was people very excited for him at U20s level where he went tit for tat with Kelleher. Hopefully he grabs this chance.

I remember when he got the shepherds crook off the u20s tour and outrage from certain factions that followed. People convinced Kelleher wasn't up to it and they'd made a mistake and also a lot of insinuation that there was more politics to it. Kelleher kept getting the rub of the green at underage because coaches didn't like him.

Think it's fair to say the coaches backed the right horse.

But that's not to take away from McElroys achievements, more to deride at internet people lol.

I admire McElroy a lot for the dedication to the craft and clearly a strong attitude to continue to get picked up by teams. Certainly has gone a road much much less travelled and at 25 still has a great chance for a long pro career

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119729571#Comment_119729571

In fairness Kelleher was u19 at the time and his throwing was some way short of the required standard at that stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119729571#Comment_119729571

Plus, it hasn't happened for McElroy at Saracens, Bristol and Ealing, so I think it's justifiable there would be some question marks to be raised.

I'd love to see it work out for him, but I think it's fair to question the decisions he made back as an U20.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119728784#Comment_119728784

The front row were not having problems for Ireland up till the English game in the 6N earlier this year. What problems did we have before then?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119729894#Comment_119729894

I know someone who used to teach in a few private schools, and they said they’re not surprised with Michael’s lads moreso achieving well in the pro ranks because they always had the drive in and out of the classroom to achieve their ambitions. That sort of attitude stands to you in any facet of life.

They admit it’s a generalisation because they’ve only worked in a handful of schools, but they maintain that Michael’s was the best school they’ve ever worked in and would absolutely go back there.

Just a disclaimer, I have no affiliation to Michael’s or any private school for that matter.

Dubinusa

Larmour is so unlucky. It's got to be extremely frustrating for him. He's been a pinata for a while and can't seem to get a run of games.

It will take a good effort this week, on a new surface and with a backline that's uneven. I would think JOB will switch to the wing and Ngati to fb.

I'd rest porter and start EB. Ryan at 5 and Jenkins at 6. Serious juggling for Leo atm.

Interesting on OTB last night Gerry Thornley put a lot of the defensive issues in the backline over the past few games on Charles Ngatai struggling to integrate.

Claimed a couple of the Zebre tries were on him too.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730046#Comment_119730046

Yeah I picked up on this from GT too. He could have mentioned the epic try saver up in Ulster though, between that and the cross field kick on sat I think we can forget any lapses in the Zebre game!

arsebiscuits1

Good to see the re reges getting the schools pissing contest in early...

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730046#Comment_119730046

hummm i didnt hear the piece, but that's a bit of a lazy analysis on what actually happened.

zebres first try came from a first phase play by zebre. It was a simple play of hard lines by the 12 and 13 and a pull back to the blindside winger. Ngatai had to hold for the 13 crashing an under line, and it was actually Osborne at 13 that got caught choosing the wrong man to defend, staying on the 12 instead of biting in on the 14. Unfortunately russell at 14 was completely at sea here, also drawn to the 12 but couldnt readjust after the line break. Communication was definitely needed to be better here as zonally Osborne and Russell were defending the same channel

for the second try, i think you could accuse ngatai of not getting off the line to match R Byrne who blitzes but holds. I guess ngatai could have been in a better position to tackle the 10 before the cross field kick, but zebre run a blocking line specifically on Nagati, actually barging him to the ground. The try is scored more from individual brilliance than any systems failure imo (and a lack of top end speed by D Kearney)

the third try is absolutely not on Ngatai, he actually covers 2 zebre players, the receiver and teh crash ball down his channel. Theres a great pull back onto the 10 again and Russell has a bit of a mare where hes covering nothing meaning MOR has to bite in and leave the winger free.

the last try, yes, definitely on Ngatai where hes lazy getting off the line. had he been quicker he would have drifted out and been in a position to assist osborne in tackling the 7. osborne will be disappointed to be bumped off to leave an easy run in however.

all in all id say its more of a case of 5 players from 11 - 15 getting used to the system and the players getting used to each other. There certainly was more than Ngatai to blame, and a lot of it was individual decisions and skills, rather than system errors

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730046#Comment_119730046

I didn't see the full game but on the weekend I don't think any of the Shark's tries were down to him. Against Zebre you can argue he could have done better for their first try but after that I don't see it.

It has to be said that in both games the opposition scored very good tries.

Yeah I don't disagree, don't think these tries have been on Ngatai at all from what I saw. Part of what he was saying as well was just communication breakdowns around Ngatai being new to the system, so he thought Henshaw was defending too narrowly to him on Saturday etc.

In any event, he's a new signing who seems to have settled well and is already contributing in a big way across multiple positions.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119729513#Comment_119729513

I like the idea of Connors at 6 with Josh at 7. It's impressive how Connors has hit the ground running since his injury. He's the best 7 in the country after Josh and having the 2 of them on the field will cause serious problems for the opposition.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730647#Comment_119730647

We have seen very little on them on the pitch at the same time which is a pity

I want to see them more so I can justify "The Sirens" as their nickname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730647#Comment_119730647

Complete agreement. Connors could be the best tackler in Irish rugby.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119729303#Comment_119729303

They were coughing up penalties in the red zone repeatedly. The penalty count doesn’t reflect it because for one penalty awarded there were often multiple offences. That was the cynicism I was referring to previously. They were happy to give away 3 to avoid 5 or 7. And they kept doing it and Barnes allowed them to. Our decision to take 3 in each case was the right decision at the time. It kept us ahead and put some daylight between the side until 60 mins.

And oddly, had we kept our heads that would have cost LAR the game. On 60 they were really struggling and as FFF said we made a number of unforced errors around that time that invited them back into the game. We avoid even just 1 or 2 of those errors and I think we win it. I mentioned Sexton not clearing from our 22, FFF mentioned JOB missing touch. These things killed us. The Sexton one led almost directly to their 2nd try. Keenan got snagged in the 22 and we conceded a penalty. They went to the line and mauled over from 5m. How different would it have been if they were 20-30m downfield?

pickarooney

It's not a game I want to watch back but I just didn't see it that way. This 'tired' team scored three times and didn't give up a line break all game. Those 'unforced errors' were largely down to good tactics, execution and pressure from those same 'tired' players.

Cynical, or pragmatic, we'd been saying since the beginning of the year that playing the ref was vital and we once again failed to do that while our opponents managed the game and the officials well from start to finish. IIRC we landed every one of our kickable penalties yet still lost. On another day we miss two or three and LAR are home and hosed before the final battle

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119731231#Comment_119731231

Two of those 3 tries came from a few metres out. They weren’t a sign of fitness at all.

And sure, cynical and pragmatic are two sides of the same coin. And I don’t want to blame our loss on that. They did what they needed to in order to win. But Barnes absolutely bottled dealing with it. And in fact he bottled something else in the Premiership final around the same time IIRC.

Those things aren’t the reason we lost. We should still have won regardless. But they did happen.

RichieRich_89

Four tries in the last quarter against the Sharks is welcome after O'Gara viewed Leinster's last quarter scoring as a weakness last season.

Edit: I see Henshaw's try was just before 60 minutes, but the point still stands.

Lsdrugbyfan

Connacht v Leinster

The Sportsground, Galway – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA

Referee: Frank Murphy (IRFU, 66th league game)

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119730647#Comment_119730647

He's only started at 6 once, don't you think that would be a hindrance?

RichieRich_89

I wasn't impressed by Connors at 6 when he played there against Ulster previously. If someone else is playing 7 and doing the harrying, linespeed, tackling role, Connors point of difference becomes a bit redundant.

I think Moloney at 6 might be better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733518#Comment_119733518

I really don't think it's right that Frank Murphy is allowed to referee games for teams he played for. In international rugby you avoid having a referee from one of the countries to avoid even the appearance of bias, but the same should be the case here.

Is it all reasonable to assume he would have some level of affection or affiliation to a team where he spent 6 years of his career and made over 100 appearances for?

My main objection to him is I think he's a bad referee though, not really a bias shout.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733675#Comment_119733675

Not necessarily, I think going from 7 to 6 is easier than 6 to 7. Lots of teams have used 2 7s and it can work well.

Connors is 6'5 so you don't lose a line out option and he is a destructive defender with great hands. It's not like you're playing 2 small 7s. The role is slightly different but an easy enough transition to make.

Where do you think it could be a hindrance?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733933#Comment_119733933

There are fans of every province who think he's biased against their province.

He's a decent ref. He just has the misfortune to ref a lot of interpros, which means every time he does, one set of fans will convince themselves that his decisions cost them the game.

Then it's only a short leap to thinking he made those decisions because he has it in for Province X, or because he played for Province Y, or he favoured Province Z so as not to give the appearance of being biased towards Province Y.

There is a routine of mental gymnastics for everyone, and it's a lot more palatable than accepting that either a) your team isn't as good as you thought it was or b) the ref knows the laws better than you do.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733899#Comment_119733899

You need more than one person doing those roles(Lydiate for Wales as a 6 did it a lot). Its not like he wouldn't be playing his game in the open because he has 6 on his back.

Moloney could be better, he looks impressive but Connors is a proven international. Time will tell I suppose

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733933#Comment_119733933

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/european-cup/gerry-thornley-history-tells-us-connacht-are-justified-in-feeling-hard-done-by-1.4704051

I’m pretty confident Murphy is the referee being referenced here when Thornley talks about Connacht having “a particular fear of one domestic referee currently” if that helps!

I agree with your point though, it looks amateurish and small time to have a referee who played for one of the teams.

Former Former Former

That article by Thornley was an absolute disgrace. Total bollocks too.

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733981#Comment_119733981

I just remember him not having much impact in that Ulster game - despite the fact he'd been tearing it up at openside at the time (if memory serves). A lot of his dominant tackles do come early in the phase count, so I think you do want him coming off the openside of the scrum and playing the 7's role at defensive lineout time.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733992#Comment_119733992

It might look amateurish, but I always feel refs are pretty honest and professional. They don't really have a nationality or club when they're reffing. I'd be annoyed if nick disagree with a ref decision and I remember being cross with Murphy when he reffed a Christmas match between leinster and munster in Thomond. But in reality, refs just make mistakes and poor decisions from time to time because they're human.

I really believe they do their best.