Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099195#Comment_120099195

Family wealth lol?

Familial wealth is a massive factor in everyone’s lives. I’m not sure why that would be different for rugby players.

On the accommodation thing, i thought that was standard for academy guys?

Serbian

I don't think flagging family wealth is that ridiculous. Sure, there are players that don't come from money, but when St. Michaels is producing a huge chunk of the Leinster squad (including Ross Molony) and it costs over €6,000 a year on fees alone, there's definitely a large chunk of players coming from wealth.

I don't think it's the reason players stick around however. Rugby careers are very, very short, and sport has a draw to it like nothing else. For many of these players, they've worked exceptionally hard to get to the point where they have a professional contract with on of the best teams in the world, it's worth hanging on and seeing if you can't break into the match day squad.

Even if you don't make it, virtually all rugby players in Ireland have gone on to complete university degrees and many of them go on to do masters and MBAs while training and playing with their province. All of the provinces are located close to a major university, so it's convenient. So, worst case scenario, you burn maybe 8 years of your career where you would have been working, but you get a shot at something pretty unique. You're still left with 30+ years of whatever career you choose to pursue once your rugby career is over.

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099164#Comment_120099164

Sounds about right tbh.

People are really overestimating how much players make and either it skewed by the fact that footballers salaries are so high and publicised or just a general naivety about how much money there is to go around.

Ross Molony is 28 and earning in and around 120k a year. That's 3 times the average salary in Ireland in your mid 20s it's not bad figures at all. I don't think a player of his profile would command much more in England or France despite what some people might think.

How often have Leinster players in recent years actually moved for the money? Sexton? I can't think of other people. Most move for game time or because they weren't offered a contract. Leinster clearly pay their players well which is less than some people think it is...

Power to them for earning the money that they can. If they're smart about it (which a lot of them are) they'll buy a house with a small mortgage and have that as an asset by the time they retire. I know of more than a few folks who did exactly that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099046#Comment_120099046

Bizarre.

You don't need 'familial' wealth to have supportive parents who are invested in your future. Professional rugby pays well but there are thousands of players that put in a similar level of work to those on contracts and they do it without any remuneration or financial reward. And that's not a Leinster phenomenon, that's across all provinces.

Having wealth doesn't equate to having the right genetics for elite sports and I'd strongly suspect that the current Leinster squad come from a far more diverse social / economic background than you seem to be intimating.

I also don't think you understand the concept of networking. People network effectively when they have something to offer - it's not something you show up and do because of what your parents earn.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099285#Comment_120099285

I think the familial wealth aspect is more that the relatively small raise that you could make by moving is largely meaningless to you. If there was a lot more money in rugby, it would be meaningful.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099315#Comment_120099315

I’ll be honest. Can you read what i wrote again, because i have no idea how you got to there from what i wrote.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099262#Comment_120099262

Your original post suggested that players only stay and play in Ireland because their family is paying for them because they are not earning enough from the IRFU. Do you honestly think a highly educated person would stay if they didn't believe they are earning a comparable wage?

Family wealth is not a massive factor in everyone's life. A lot of people use it as an excuse I find.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099285#Comment_120099285

Just because parents decide to pay for private education doesn't mean they will keep them afloat for years while they play professional sports.

Every player in academies have to do a university course, this was confirmed before. I don't think this is an option and is the right approach. Hence why you have the provinces aligned with a university.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099329#Comment_120099329

Your point seems to be that guys are happy to stay at Leinster as third choice because their rich families subsidise them, but players at other provinces don't have this option and therefore have to leave. Is that correct?

arsebiscuits1

Just thinking back to my days as a student in the early 2010s

From the ages of 18-22 I worked about 18-20 hours a week in a newsagent pulling in about 200 quid a week net. So 800 a month and a little under 10k for the year.

I had a bit of help with rent but it was still 300 per month. Food was always the biggest expense. I'd be able to cycle pretty much everywhere including to college and occasionally had to get the bus.

Nights out were another big expense but it was all about finding the cheapest student night and drinking the cheapest stuff I could lay my hands on lol. I do remember being able to stretch 50 quid for a night out all in.

I was always comfortable. I was sensible with my money but never had to worry about being completely broke. I was always able to enjoy myself.

Now I know times are different 10 years later and the cost of living is a lot more.

But given the academy lads would have a good chunk of their food paid for as well as getting helped out with housing it's a pretty manageable life style for a student.

Heaven knows I'd have much rather have played rugby than work in a shop. Except I wasn't even remotely good enough to be in that frame. And the early morning probably would have killed me

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099349#Comment_120099349

This is the Leinster thread. I meant guys were staying in Dublin even with the higher cost of living at presumably lower salary bands, and if familial wealth was an aspect of that decision among other things.

The difference between equally educated people, and one couple got a down payment gifted to them and the other didn’t and saved for 5-10 years for it.., that’s a massive massive difference. That’s an example.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099355#Comment_120099355

Isn’t that a factor? Why are they staying for less money. I can see other factors but i dont see why that wouldn’t be a factor.

I mean its a factor where i live. People from less well off families are more likely to leave my city as you need to have WAY over the median salary (3/4x) to afford a detached house in the poorest part of the city.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099364#Comment_120099364

The IRFU is over the provinces and the pay scale is driven by the IRFU. Hence why I mentioned them.

I am still totally confused by what you are trying to say, you are obsessed with "familial wealth" as if that has something to do with Irish rugby or with Leinster?

I think you are trying to get to a "only rich kids can play rugby" but you just won't come out and say that. Maybe I am wrong,

Yes I am not denying some players have gone to private school, others have gone to private school on scholarships and others haven't.

People waffling about family wealth bores me to be honest because it is always used as an excuse. Your example is just an example and its not a massive difference. It's just two people in different situations. That's it.

P.S. I am the person without the down payment

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099403#Comment_120099403

I thought that was a given. Alot of Leinster players come from a family wealth background that is above the irish average, probably well over. Is that not true?

Therefore that affects their decision making when it comes to money.

If you can’t see the difference in long term wealth between people who have 5-10 years more equity in housing by the time the other people can afford to buy, then i dont know what to tell you.

The original question was answered lol. This is taboo.

People are taking this as a moral judgement of some sort. It’s not. I’m just saying that might be a factor in decision making. Because its certainly a factor in mine and apparently i make more than some rugby players.

Dubinusa

When I compared football to rugby, I was just trying to point out the vast differences in funding and the failure of world rugby to kick rugby onto another level. I would say that rugby is growing, at a snails pace.

Looking at the squads in the football premiership, there's barely a British contingent. I would hate to have that happen to rugby. All in all, where is the growth in rugby? England hasn't really done much to improve its stature in England. Australia are struggling behind rugby league.

The best growth nations are probably Japan and the U.S. I think more could be done to improve rugby. Over here, football is the most participated sport amongst high schoolers. Rugby is getting popular in colleges.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099423#Comment_120099423

I thought that was a given. Alot of Leinster players come from a family wealth background that is above the irish average, probably well over. Is that not true? I have no idea

Therefore that affects their decision making when it comes to money. So are you saying rich kids don't care about money? or what they get paid?

If you want to say "rich kids can only play rugby" come out and say it instead of jumping around it.

It's not taboo by the way

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099046#Comment_120099046

I’m assuming that the irfu to some extent sets it up that the guy third in the depth chart at one province is on a lower salary band to the guy second at another province

I highly doubt it. Depth charts are far too fluid for that kind of reasoning and different teams will have different needs.

Leinster's ability to hold onto squad depth has a large part to do with IRFU rules around selection for the international team - its by far the largest element. That squad depth players have moved to other provinces and not done so wonderfully will also be an element. Staying in Ireland means you get to play into parochial elements of a player's psyche also ("I'd never play for Munster, I'm a Leinster lad") in a way that wouldn't exist if they were choosing between Leinster and e.g. Bath.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099575#Comment_120099575

I’d say that if i came from a family that was wealthy, i wouldn’t move to connacht to make 20k more. That isnt enough money to tip the scales for me. Is that a crazy concept? You seem to think it is.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099576#Comment_120099576

I agree with a lot of this but id say that generally its really hard to run a sports team and not have salary somewhat correlate to role.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The biggest money for rugby is internationals.

A lot of players might think I'm a lucky break away from the international squad.

Match fees for internationals is significant. I've seen reports of 7k a match but they date back to 2015. I've heard 10k a match mentioned on podcasts. Plus bonuses (12k a player a match for a grandslam year for example).

So an Irish player might think sure I could get 20-30k a season more in the UK or I might have a good run and become a fringe international and get 20k from a couple of match fees.

Look at Joe McCarthy. A bunch of players can say to themselves Im better than him. I could have been on the bench against Australia and pocketed the match fees. McCarthy got a run because he impressed the coaches in some way or got lucky on a day that Farrell was looking at young talent for the future.

If Ireland is home its a lot easier to network for a post rugby career in Ireland than somewhere else.

Look at Sexton. He works 1 day a week in some materials company as work experience.

Edit: players will move. That's the nature of sport. That said an offer abroad will have to be clearly better than an Irish offer in a way that doesn't apply to a lot of other careers.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099646#Comment_120099646

I agree with this but isn’t there an assumption in there that you can’t make more at other provinces?

I dont know if its true or not but for example, i assume that kelleher would make more at munster than leinster if he is second choice at leinster when his contract is up. I feel like that’s how the IRFU would want it to be.

That is an assumption. How contracting works outside central ones is kind of murky. Honestly, though kelleher level guys aren’t the guys who surprise me. There are lots of good reasons for him to stay.

Lost Ormond

Mods could we move a lot of these posts to another thread, even its own thread, as not directly linked to leinster alone.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099423#Comment_120099423

I thought that was a given. Alot of Leinster players come from a family wealth background that is above the irish average, probably well over. Is that not true?

That is true of all provinces, not just Leinster. Except in Ulster because private schools are not allowed. The vast majority of professional players come through private schools.

So do most of the top business people, lawyers, doctors etc.. Do you think they maximize their earnings because their parents were rich? Seems like a bizzare idea to me.

Though not all come from rich parents. There are kids from the council flats near me going to St Mary’s on a scholarship. Just like all the other fee paying schools in Dublin.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099666#Comment_120099666

Apparently the IRFU don't allow provinces to outbid each other. That said Nucifora has given exceptions to that rule (Jamie Hagan Connacht to Leinster and a few young players going Leinster to Connacht where Leinster were offering them depth spots).

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099699#Comment_120099699

Yes, i do know people from more wealthy backgrounds who don't maximize their earnings. Don’t you?

I don’t even get these arguments. It’s like every other obvious factor is allowed to be stated. But the ADDITIONAL factor of familial wealth in an extremely high COL city is not. Taboo indeed.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099716#Comment_120099716

I’ve always been confused by that. I took that to mean they can’t outbid for the same role. But if munster wanted to sign kelleher as starting hooker, they are really only allowed to offer leinster number 2 hooker money? As an example.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099599#Comment_120099599

Connacht can't outbid another province for a player is my understanding.

Plus if they could it would come down to the players personal choice, like one of the main reasons Henshaw moved to Leinster was his GF at that stage was in Dublin, still is his GF or wife now so it was more to do with personal choice than money.

Rugby is a job, would you move from Dublin to Galway for 20k more in any job? the answer is always it depends.

To be honest at this stage you are going in circles because you are trying to start an argument about "rich kids" and rugby. The points you are making have absolutely nothing to do with a players parents wealth by the way. But good try

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099730#Comment_120099730

It's not taboo. The point you are trying to make is questionable and trying to say it is "taboo" doesn't change that

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099765#Comment_120099765

I think the reality of Henshaw moving was more likely be to win things despite anything that was said at the time. Sportspeople like to win things.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099765#Comment_120099765

I’m going in circles lol. You are telling me that familial wealth doesn't matter but salary does. It’s nonsense.

When someone refuses to take into account obvious factors for just no good reason, its taboo.

I don’t believe that ulster for example can offer a guy worth 100k a contract of 50k, and then no other team can offer more. He has to move abroad. That’s also nonsense. It’s way more likely that you can’t poach for the same role.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099358#Comment_120099358

If I had food and rent paid for, with 12 grand a year I'd be considerably better off than I am now!

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099617#Comment_120099617

I'm sure it will correlate to role, just not to roles in other provinces. I'm sure there is a reasonable chance Porter was on more money than other provinces first choice tightheads while he was second choice to Furlong etc. I doubt the IRFU get involved to that degree and leave it to the provinces to handle that element of finances.