Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099730#Comment_120099730

But it’s not obvious. If you’re earning €120k-€140k here and could earn €150k-€160k in the UK. I would imagine family wealth would make little or no difference in your decision. Compared to having to move away from family and friends. Or giving up any aspiration of playing for your country. Not to mention the tax incentives to stay here.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099748#Comment_120099748

They almost definitely could, but at that point its going to go through Nucifora's office.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099819#Comment_120099819

Totally agree on Furlong and Porter. At the very top, there are guys who get paid alot more. Usually on central contracts.

Down the levels though, the IRFU sets the budget. I’d be surprised if leinster could afford to pay their third choice more than ulster first or even second.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099730#Comment_120099730

I'd have thought the opposite. People from wealthy backgrounds know people who can advise them best on stuff like this. Also they get free accommodation so cost of living is feck all for them and they are close to friends and family.

If they've any ambition they'll be backing themselves to make the first team after they finish in the academy.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099823#Comment_120099823

I personally know people who make 75k working for specific non profits who could be making over a 100k working for universities or hospitals… and they tend to be the wives of someone making a ton of money or come from wealthy families.

This is everyday reality in high COL cities. Its super common here at least.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099843#Comment_120099843

How is that comparable to 25-30 year old professional athlete's?

Also moving to the University wouldn’t involve moving country and dragging their partners with them.

As we saw with Henshaw, players move for family or partners. He wasn’t getting more money coming to Leinster but wanted to be closer to his girlfriend.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099836#Comment_120099836

It depends on what you want to do. For ‘passion’ careers, there are a lot of wealthy people. For example, wealthy people are super over represented in acting. Basically, the wealth allows you to take risks.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099875#Comment_120099875

It’s just an example of how when you throw in a bunch of factors that affect your decisions, familial wealth can allow you to put more weight on factors other than money.

I’m not saying everyone makes decisions for the same reason. I’m saying its a factor.

crisco10

Not sure why wealth comes into it necessarily, I would have thought it's simply a bigger advantage that most of the players are from in and around Dublin and that's where Leinster are based. So moving abroad for a more money means leaving behind an intricate support network.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099903#Comment_120099903

I wasn’t actually mainly talking about moving abroad. I was mainly thinking of other provinces primarily.

Support network is also absolutely a factor.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099911#Comment_120099911

We see moves to other provinces though. 5 depth players from Leinster went to Connacht this summer. Half the Ulster pack is from Leinster.

Also one province can’t offer more than another regardless of pecking order.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099973#Comment_120099973

It’s my impression that its very rare that someone leinster wants to keep moves. That might be incorrect.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100098#Comment_120100098

If Leinster want to keep them, that means they are in and around the starting 23. If that’s the case, why on earth would anyone want to move?

Salanoa, Aungier McCarthy all left even though Leinster didn’t want them to move. I doubt very much they wanted Josh Murphy or Dooley to go either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100098#Comment_120100098

There definitely have been guys Leinster didn't want to lose - Joey Carbery, Jordi Murphy, Jack Aungier and Roman Salanoa three I've read news stories about.

I don't think they were happy to lose Josh Murphy last season either from what I've heard.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100131#Comment_120100131

There are guys in between. Scott Penny for example hasn’t been in european 23 ever to my knowledge. Maybe that changes tomorrow, but there are guys like him. On the edge of first choice leinster, possible starter for another province.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100098#Comment_120100098

That's true of all the provinces (except Connacht, and even that's as much of an issue any more).

Nobody really leaves their home province when they're getting decent gametime.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100098#Comment_120100098

It's very rare for any player to leave any of the provinces if they want to keep him. Zebo would be the biggest but he had links to France and said from a young age he wanted to play in France.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099806#Comment_120099806

"Taboo describes an activity or behaviour that is considered completely unacceptable or forbidden". It seems you don't understand the meaning of the word you are using

Is Ireland losing lots of players to overseas? Very few

Is Ireland losing players because they are under paying them? No

Do player move from one province to another to increase game time? Yes

Are Irish players earning less than overseas? it depends but a player in a comparable position at an overseas could be earning more but as we have seen they potentially will have a shorter career because of the amount of games

Do Irish sports stars get tax breaks including rugby players? Yes

Do only rich people play rugby? no

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120099843#Comment_120099843

Sounds legit

Dubinusa

I would assume that ROL is on better wages at Exeter? Maybe Dunne too?

I would expect that Ngati makes a good slice and possibly Jenkins.

Ladslike DK are probably on less than they used to be. With lads retiring the funding for the younger lads become available. I reckon DK; Healy and Sexton will retire this year. That leaves a chunk of cash to promote others.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100199#Comment_120100199

Yeah, but there is a good reason for that. It's an incredible stat but Josh van der Flier has started every single European game for Leinster in the past 3 seasons. He's the current World Player of the Year.

Penny is unfortunate in that while he's been picked a few times at 8, in reality if he's not starting at 7, he's not likely to bench for a European game, as there has been a long standing tendency to pick big rangy 5.5 style players on the bench (all of Ryan Baird, Rhys Ruddock, Jack Conan, Josh Murphy, Scott Fardy have benched ahead of him). It's obvious Leinster have a "type" when it comes to building a bench for European games.

Penny was named to start in the Montpellier game that was called off.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100335#Comment_120100335

It is legit. I know alot about that industry in this city.

Is one of the definitions of taboo that you hear aimless arguments that address little of what you said?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100523#Comment_120100523

I agree with all of this. Penny has been good when he’s got to play. But at the same time, he must know he could start elsewhere.

It’s possible that the system is set up so he wouldn’t actually make more in ulster or connacht. But i suspect that a number of Leinster guys have left money on the table. From a rugby pov, i dont blame them. Actually its a great rugby decision.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120100252#Comment_120100252

True, but frankly leinster have better players. Its rare in any other province that a really good player would have to sit third on a depth chart.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101305#Comment_120101305

No it's not. I gave you the definition of "taboo".

Yes loads of high educated people are not earning their full capacity because their partner earns "bucket loads", I won't bother with the whole "wives" comment which is something you would hear in the 80s.

I still have no idea what point you are trying to make? as I said before why don't you just come out and say it. After all as we can clearly see it is not a taboo subject

Also from what I can see you are using the word "familial" in the wrong context as well. I have never heard it used in terms of finances.

It's easy to spot the Latin root familia meaning "family" in the word familial. This is a word that describes events, relationships, or all other things having to do with family. When you talk about a familial bond, you are talking about the kind of intimate connection that only family members can share. If you are interested in genealogy, you have an interest in familial history.

Children of the same familial background are likely to follow similar career paths.   Surprised that it was a familial trait, the adopted boy now realized that his color blindness came from his birth father.   A familial identifier of their family, the widow’s peak hairline was present in all of the Johnson children. 

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101573#Comment_120101573

So, you do understand the concept of familial wealth affecting life decisions. Good for you.

You gave me a dictionary definition of taboo but you can’t look up the word familial?

I’ll try it one more time. Maybe it will be clearer. Familial wealth can affect life decisions. Leinster players seem to be staying for what COULD be less money in a high COL city. I was asking if familial wealth could be a factor in that.

I could be wrong. Leinster might actually be able to pay close enough that its not worth moving to a higher depth chart spot elsewhere. The IRFU might strictly enforce not offering more than the home province.

That’s as clear as I can possibly make it.

Edit: actually, I’m happy to leave it there generally. This is going around in circles and I’m clogging up the thread.

Sangre

The only family wealth we should be talking about on this thread is the inherited handsomeness of the Kearneys

pickarooney

It's public knowledge that the IRFU won't allow one provice to outbid another one.

I don't know how this works though if, say, Max Deegan reaches the end of his contract and Leinster don't want him. If Connacht offer him 70 grand does he have to either say yes, ask another province to also offer him 70 grand, leave the country or give up rugby?

Or does the IRFU have to decide what he's worth and which province he's allowed to go to?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120102252#Comment_120102252

It's probably a little bit of both given that the IRFU control the Provincial budgets.

So , the Province would go to the IRFU and say - "We have X available in our budget for next season and would like to make an offer for Max Deegan" , the IRFU would approve that from a budget perspective and then Deegan would get the offer for his consideration.

Nucifora will also have an input in which players go where , but I think that would be more about asking a player to consider a move for more game time rather than vetoing a move/offer that was made.

Former Former Former

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (49)

14. Jordan Larmour (81)

13. Garry Ringrose (111) CAPTAIN

12. Jamie Osborne (27)

11. Jimmy O’Brien (63)

10. Ross Byrne (141)

9. Jamison Gibson-Park (120)

1. Andrew Porter (101)

2. Dan Sheehan (39)

3. Michael Ala’alatoa (36)

4. Ross Molony (152)

5. James Ryan (67)

6. Ryan Baird (46)

7. Josh van der Flier (122)

8. Caelan Doris (62)

16. Rónan Kelleher (43)

17. Michael Milne (22)

18. Cian Healy (257)

19. Brian Deeny (6)

20. Jack Conan (125)

21. Nick McCarthy (54)

22. Harry Byrne (40)

23. Liam Turner (11)

arsebiscuits1

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1613868476979978243?cxt=HHwWhoC9yYi1zuUsAAAA

No Lowe, no Joe Mc despite neither being in any injury update. Very strange altogether.

You'd have to imagine Joe is unavailable given they've put Deeny on the bench.

phily2002

Del