Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321309#Comment_120321309

A lot can change in the coming years which is exciting and I look forward to embracing it.

While it does do an injustice to both to compare them directly. One can't help look to Ross for comparison when setting a benchmark for Harry.

There is almost exactly 4 years between them. Both made their Leinster debuts at 20. Both made similar amounts of appearances in their first 2 seasons (24 Harry, 23 Ross) including European minutes but Ross undoubtedly had the higher profile of minutes featuring much more in Europe but Harrys second season ended with an international cap.

3rd season is where their paths significantly diverge with Harrys 3rd season been written off as a useful developmental endeavour due to injury where as Ross became a main stay in the Leinster squad starting frequently and getting huge minutes.

Comparing Harry now to Ross 4 years ago when he was the same age. Harry played very well against Edinburgh steering the ship and having some great moments in attack and defence. But he is still good for one glaring error per game. Frequently from the boot. Ross had just started back to back in Europe against Wasps (A) and Toulouse(H) and was a few weeks away from steering us to a brilliant win against Ulster in the Aviva.

While I love Harry he can no longer be considered the "up and comer" his time is now and it's only looking at these side by side I realise how much better a player Ross was at the same point. Noticeably limited in certain aspects, but a better player.

But in the "what ifs" category. Ross has been fit (touch wood) essentially his entire Leinster career. A luxury Harry has not had.

Tector is player I struggle to rate. While a large frame and clearly quite strong I never have seen any attributes that would convince me that he will have a long Leinster career. I am happy for him to get minutes if the coaches deem it fit but given Prendergast is only one age grade below, Tectors time is limited to show the coaching staff that he will be a better option long term.

Prendergast does look something special. Harry was hyped and rightly so at that age grade but Prendergast looks head and shoulders above what Byrne was back then. He really showed some great glimpses of his ability as an under 19 in the summer series including a brilliant clutch kick against England to win it https://www.the42.ie/richie-murphy-prendergast-5809107-Jul2022/ and a phenomenal long range pass to release his wing for a try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmTB5ExkqWY

I think Tector might be the player to miss out in the long run. But he's year 1 academy. Plenty of time to come up with the goods

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321548#Comment_120321548

It's great to have these options post Sexton. I tend to agree that Ross was better than Harry at this point of their careers but, Harry is still not the finished product, imo. Certainly, injuries have stalled his growth and he does seem to be one of those injury prone lads.

Frawley is viewed by AF as a potential 10. I've no idea if this could work? Leinster seem to view him as a center. Perhaps there's a quality 10 in him?

Tector took a while to grow on me. But he has. He's so strong and powerful. It's like having a back row play out half. Whether or not the skills required are there to be a good 10, remains to be seen. He's had a little exposure so far and looks comfortable. I reckon he's going to be good.

Prendergast looks the business. Special type of player so far and he's been better than HB.

Post Sexton there's riches. But can one of them reach those heights?

TRC10

I have to say, from the two games he's played there this season, I really like Frawley at 15. It utilizes his footballing, playmaking ability, without him having to do the hard carrying he needs to do at 12. He probably gets more freedom there too. I think it might be his best position.

If Lowe or Larmour were to get injured, playing Frawley at 15 and moving Keenan to the wing could be a really interesting option. I know Keenan is probably the best 15 in the world at the moment. But so were Ben Smith and Liam Williams and they played loads of rugby on the wing. It would be a way of getting our best players on the pitch (not that that's always the best approach). And I think from an attacking POV, it offers more than just putting JOB on the wing.

Ross Byrne is a really strange player because while he’s a poor athlete I think he’s fundamentally a good athlete (and there have been plenty of good Irish players across positions who would also deserve that description).

With Harry Byrne, it’s just hard to get a good sense of him because of how disjointed his playing time has been. It is telling to me how highly the coaches at Ireland and Leinster rate him - they’ve kept pushing him into teams and European squads etc, with ultimately just his own health consistently letting him down.

Hopefully he stays healthy and plays a big part in the run in this season. This RWC cycle is likely too late for him now, but I don’t think he’s out of the mix at all to be the ultimate successor to Johnny for Leinster or Ireland.

With Tector, he’s gotten very little minutes to actually assess him as a 10. He’s put himself about when he’s come on, but it’s always in scenarios where Leinster are cruising and he’s not being asked to do anything.

Prendergast is the one though - he looks to have the complete package.

Dubinusa

Harry looks to have the inate ability, as does Prendergast.

Ross worked for it. Tector will have to work hard too.

I think Tector would get playing time at Ulster or Connacht. He could be very good. Bruising big lad.

Dubinusa

Just saw on another thread that Delahunt isn't being renewed at Connacht. Would he be a good pick up? McKee is playing great!

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322277#Comment_120322277

"Ross Byrne is a really strange player because while he’s a poor athlete I think he’s fundamentally a good athlete..."

I don't really understand this. What do you mean?

Serbian

I don’t think so, we have five hookers between the senior squad and the academy. We lose access to the front two for about four or five games a season, not worth a signing.

We need props mainly, a good third choice 9 and I wouldn’t say no to a decent winger.

CIARAN_BOYLE

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322464#Comment_120322464

Not sure what you are replying to here.

Regarding Hooker I think we give McElroy a contract extension but thats it.

The more I think about the more I almost regret the signing of Charlie Ngati. He has only played 12 for us and I think we could do with someone with more flexibility. That said I'm saying that with hindsight given that Osbourne and Turner have stepped up in a big way in the centre I no longer feel like a center is the right back to have a signing.

Do you think we need a LH or TH prop signing? A replacement for Big Mike or a supplement.

DelMcG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322464#Comment_120322464

Very much agree that we need another scrum half.

Nick McCarthy is just a poor player & the drop off from Luke to him in URC games is huge.

Cormac Foley is very, very raw. Could come good with time but looks like some serious work is needed there.

Fintan Gunne looks class for the U20s but again will need time to make the grade as a senior player.

Bloody typical that Paddy Patterson is looking good for the other lot down the road.

Would have been nice to nab Marmion but could never contest with Bristol on the wage front.

connachta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120320381#Comment_120320381

That's a huge biais.

Welsh rugby won't acccept to get rid of it and just condemn any other to be better than 8th French or English have to be (Glasgow last year).

+ yes the schedule is biais, Welsh, Scots and Italians have easier path. They are unable enough to still miss the qualificationn but it does not erase the biais

We, Connacht, just want merit and home-and-away schedule like in France, England, everywhere.

But because of unfairness, we have to beg you and Munster

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322886#Comment_120322886

Would have been nice to nab Marmion but could never contest with Bristol on the wage front.

It's extremely unlikely that Marmion is on a big wedge in Bristol, but what would we even do with him? Would he be happy being third choice at Leinster?

JGP and McGrath are 31 and 30, plenty of time left and McCarthy isn't a world beater but he's plenty good enough as an interim third choice.

I don't see SH as a big problem really.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322277#Comment_120322277

Predergast is just the latest version of Harry to be honest.

At this stage it would be better to let him just play his way into the team instead of building him up.

Harry just needs a run of games and see how he can progress

pickarooney

I've never seen anything in Harry Byrne. Watching the game the other day and the first thing of note he does is miss a penalty to touch. Trying to take too much out of it no doubt. Exasperating. We know he can kick 50 metres into the corner on a sixpence once in a while but it's far more important to do the basics. This has been the pattern every time I've watched him - try too hard, make a few snazzy moves and a couple of bullshit kicks.

He was rather good for the rest of the game and I could see the talent but that kind of performance without the glaring errors needs to be the minimum, week in, week out before he can be considered as a starter, and even then he has a lot of catching up to do. It beggars belief for me that he has international caps based on nothing at club level.

I watched Tector a bit at u20 and thought he looked rough and ungainly but he grew on me over the tournament and I think he has a chance at being a professional 10. I just don't think it will be at Leinster. He could probably do with a year or two playing regularly at a lower level to see what he can make of himself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323001#Comment_120323001

I want my fcuking PP back.

Serbian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322640#Comment_120322640

A couple of posts above my one, there was a suggestion that we sign Delahunt from Connacht (a hooker), was disagreeing with that.

--

Totally agree with the posts about Harry Byrne. He looks like he could be a good player, but he has at least one guaranteed clanger per game. He has missed touch two games in a row now — he kicked a penalty dead at home against the Dragons. That one was way worse as (as far as I remember anyway) he was inside or near the Dragons' 22 and didn't need to milk the meters out of it.

Prendergast looks superb for the under 20s, but many players have looked great at that level and not really made the grade when they've stepped up. I've liked what I've seen from Tector, as few senior minutes as he has gotten too. I think we still have three live options there for the 22 shirt, and ultimately the 10 shirt.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322458#Comment_120322458

Sorry I meant to say here he’s fundamentally a good rugby player despite being a very limited athlete!

On Harry - I do think he’s shown glimpses of what he could be. He has all the physical tools required, seems to have the right kind of swagger bordering on arrogance you want in a 10, and seems able to shrug off errors pretty quickly.

I really wouldn’t be beating him up over making one or two mental errors a game - it’s almost to be expected from a 23 year old who’s missed as much time as he has.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322397#Comment_120322397

Have heard it rumoured Delahunt is going to Munster

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323771#Comment_120323771

Best Delahunt would do with us is a short term RWC contract I reckon but it's certainly somewhere that the coaching staff will be identifying.

We're guaranteed to be without Kelleher and Sheehan until November some time.

We're pretty much obligated to have 3 hookers in a match day squad (including an unnamed extra player) which essentially leaves us zero wiggle room.

Gus McCarthy is probably a good shout for the Academy next season but it's rare to see a front row with Leinster get significant senior caps these days so early after their U20s season. Most get more time in AIL. But it's possible he's the next cab off the rank after McKee, Barron and McElroy.

That might cover us for the RWC but it would be tight

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324030#Comment_120324030

I suppose an argument in his favour is that the world Cup players for all the teams will be away so the standard of opposition will be lower too. It's always a risk to play a young front row but that would be better than any other time to do it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120323046#Comment_120323046

Plenty on display from Prendergast to suggest that he's at a high level for u20's international rugby. Whether that translates to the senior game is an entirely different question and we've seen plenty not make the transition. When I referenced him above, it was with his potential in mind but mostly in relation to his size. Having big, skilful units at 10 and 12 would be phenomenal for any team.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324123#Comment_120324123

That's a fair assessment. No point anointing him the next big thing. But he certainly has potential so its a matter of waiting to see what happens next. His u20s performances has have been very good.

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324123#Comment_120324123

Harry was out training the mini, he is no mini himself :-)

AbusesToilets

What injury did Osbourne pick up?

arsebiscuits1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324698#Comment_120324698

Unspecified unfortunately and with no fixture until 24th March we wont be seeing a Leinster injury update this week and probably next.

Dubinusa

The schedule next year will be interesting. I suppose we won't have the Frontline lads for a bit and the young bucks will be played.

Dubinusa

Will Joe McCarthy be available for the Ulster.

Podge_irl

A large degree of the hype around Harry Byrne (and I was guilty of this myself) revolved around the fact that he's clearly a better athlete than his brother and it was hoped he would be as good a rugby player - especially be his brother without the glaring weakness. So far he hasn't shown the latter unfortunately.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333717#Comment_120333717

Ah in fairness, when Harry Byrne came into the team first, he really, really looked the part and he was only 20/21.

Whether it was injuries, or just a larger sample size of games, or both, he hasn't backed it up, but there was real basis to believe.

Dubinusa

Harry has been good lately. He is over hyped and of course, the constant injuries have not helped. I'd say he could be very good with a full run and a decent pre season.

He turns 24 next month! He's still got time to improve. Will he be the lad we hope for? It's easy to see the positive in his play and he is a fine athlete. We shall see!