Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Former Former Former

I honestly wonder sometimes if I'm watching the same games as other people.

Like, we had our fifth choice out half paired with a scrum half who's being released in a couple of weeks. We had a mix of players of varying degrees of quality and experience, we had guys who hadn't played in weeks.

And we were pretty competitive for 60 minutes against a full strength Munster side who were absolutely desperate for a win, they wanted it far more than we did.

I thought there was lots to be positive about. Plenty of good individual performances but the collective was always going to struggle.

Same posters week in week out looking for something to be gloomy about. Cheer up like.

Utterly, utterly meaningless for next week.

PhlegmyMoses

Former Former Former wrote: »

I honestly wonder sometimes if I'm watching the same games as other people.

Like, we had our fifth choice out half paired with a scrum half who's being released in a couple of weeks. We had a mix of players of varying degrees of quality and experience, we had guys who hadn't played in weeks.

And we were pretty competitive for 60 minutes against a full strength Munster side who were absolutely desperate for a win, they wanted it far more than we did.

I thought there was lots to be positive about. Plenty of good individual performances but the collective was always going to struggle.

Same posters week in week out looking for something to be gloomy about. Cheer up like.

Utterly, utterly meaningless for next week.

Have people in the match thread saying Ringrose and Ryan haven't kicked on after watching them play for 50 or 60 mins in a match where the goal is just to get minutes. The mind boggles really, people are so weird about sports in general

thomond2006

La Rochelle's Top 14 match against Brive was postponed due to Brive having Covid-19 cases.

Exclamation Marc

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Have people in the match thread saying Ringrose and Ryan haven't kicked on after watching them play for 50 or 60 mins in a match where the goal is just to get minutes. The mind boggles really, people are so weird about sports in general

Agreed. Even forgetting that Ryan and Ringrose were there for minutes as you say, of the other thirteen starters, only James Lowe starts in our strongest XV alongside one of Larmour or Kearney at wing. This game and tournament mean utterly nothing and how anyone can view this game a precursor to anything is beyond me.

When the line-ups were announced, the writing was on the wall for the result barring some miracle. I have a few acquaintances speaking to the result and performance like it was a European Cup Final, it's bizarre.

The only output I took from the game and something I posted with Squidgy in the match thread on is that HOS is unfortunately nowhere near the level we need as a third choice SH. I was a bit miffed at Nick McCarthy returning but I can see why. With JGP now in the international fold, we're quite light there more than anywhere. The rest of the game is hard to draw much from, positively or negatively considering the context.

ersatz

aloooof wrote: »

Just for starters:

1) Nothing has been announced for Furlong yet.
2) Stephen Moore wasn't blocked.
3) Fineen Wycherly has already been promoted to the senior team.

You're absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but having factual inaccuracies like these to back up your opinion isn't gonna help your case.

Moore was definitely blocked by the IRFU.
https://www.the42.ie/munster-irfu-block-stephen-moore-2452784-Nov2015/?amp=1

Exclamation Marc

ersatz wrote: »

Moore was definitely blocked by the IRFU.
https://www.the42.ie/munster-irfu-block-stephen-moore-2452784-Nov2015/?amp=1

He definitely wasn't.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stephen-moore-could-have-been-a-munster-player-if-they-had-stumped-up-more-cash-56421

Dubinusa

The season is on the line next week. This was a nothing event today. As a matter of fact, I hope the remaining fixtures in this tournament are a view to the future. Sure, play 5 or 6 regular players to keep them up to speed but, I would love to see Turner and MOR and Smith get some meaningful minutes. In the pack I would like to see Milne, Soroka, SOB and Deeny. I would start Clarkson v Connacht. I would go with Turner at 13 and Sylvester, if healthy at 15. It's obviously a higher standard than the "A". A fantastic opportunity for new lads to get a feel for better competition.

TRC10

Is Leinster's squad depth good?

Yes.

Is it so good that they can rest Keenan, Henshaw, Sexton, Byrne, McGrath, JGP, Healy, Kelleher, Furlong, Toner, Ruddock, VDF and Conan, play their 3rd choice 9 and 5th choice 10, and give out 2 debuts, and still beat a full strength European heavyweight Munster?

Nah.

sebdavis

Couple of question on the squad must be asked now

At 9 we are lacking. I think McCarthy will do a good job but anything coming after?
At 10, Sexton due to retire at some stage, potentially both Byrnes in Ireland who is the back up? Is it Frawley? Or is he a 12 now

The injury list is growing, I think for our internationals the last thing they need is a Money making spinner half the summer. We never really got McGrath and SOB back after the last lions, should we be concerned of losing more player because of this one

Buer

ersatz wrote: »

Moore was definitely blocked by the IRFU.
https://www.the42.ie/munster-irfu-block-stephen-moore-2452784-Nov2015/?amp=1

Anthony Foley came out after that rumour and specifically denied it.

“The Australian hooker, somebody said that to me. There isn’t anything in that. It has happened to us in the past around the media as well, where names are thrown out.

"Everything is done behind closed doors. We are not going to talk about it in the public anyway because it is not worth our while.”

Nucifora was interviewed later that year and went on the record saying the move had not been blocked. He even went as far to say that he believed Munster made an offer which Moore turned down. When that was put to Foley, he dodged the question. One thing is clear though, it wasn't blocked.

“The fact that people have said that we blocked it, it wasn’t blocked. I think you’ll find that there probably was an offer made to Stephen Moore. It just wasn’t accepted.”

catseye2

hold my beer wrote: »

Is McGrath injured?

Not unless he is is allergic to cotton wool..
Absolutely right call

ersatz

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

He definitely wasn't.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stephen-moore-could-have-been-a-munster-player-if-they-had-stumped-up-more-cash-56421

That article seem to confirm that it fell through because of a lack of support from Nucifora. His quote means he didn’t think it was worth it because Moore may still have lined out for Australia. Maybe blocking is too strong.

sebdavis

Former Former Former wrote: »

I honestly wonder sometimes if I'm watching the same games as other people.

Like, we had our fifth choice out half paired with a scrum half who's being released in a couple of weeks. We had a mix of players of varying degrees of quality and experience, we had guys who hadn't played in weeks.

And we were pretty competitive for 60 minutes against a full strength Munster side who were absolutely desperate for a win, they wanted it far more than we did.

I thought there was lots to be positive about. Plenty of good individual performances but the collective was always going to struggle.

Same posters week in week out looking for something to be gloomy about. Cheer up like.

Utterly, utterly meaningless for next week.

Seemingly after yesterday it proves that some of the young Leinster players are not as good as people say

Ok the end score was not great but to stay in the game and actually have a decent first half was good from the team. It fell off in second half but it always was going to. If anything will give the likes of Penny etc some valuable experience.

sebdavis

ersatz wrote: »

That article seem to confirm that it fell through because of a lack of support from Nucifora. His quote means he didn’t think it was worth it because Moore may still have lined out for Australia. Maybe blocking is too strong.

Sure a valuable conversation to have on the Munster thread.
You should check back when Munster tried to sign Moore. The place was a shambles and they had issues all over the place: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/arid-20402997.html

Maybe discuss on the Munster thread, not the Leinster one

Former Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Anthony Foley came out after that rumour and specifically denied it.



Nucifora was interviewed later that year and went on the record saying the move had not been blocked. He even went as far to say that he believed Munster made an offer which Moore turned down. When that was put to Foley, he dodged the question. One thing is clear though, it wasn't blocked.

I guess the question is, if Munster had an offer ready to go, Moore wanted to come... then IRFU revised the package downwards and Moore pulled out. Maybe they didn't completely block it but they certainly didn't want it to happen.

thomond2006

sebdavis wrote: »

At 9 we are lacking. I think McCarthy will do a good job but anything coming after?

Unless there's an injury crisis, Leinster's fourth choice nine is not going to be starting against an opponent like Munster. Leinster aren't lacking at 9 at all.

sebdavis

Former Former Former wrote: »

I guess the question is, if Munster had an offer ready to go, Moore wanted to come... then IRFU revised the package downwards and Moore pulled out. Maybe they didn't completely block it but they certainly didn't want it to happen.

Munster had Scannell. If Moore came it would have stopped his progress. In the end Scannell went on to represent Ireland at international level
If the IRFU stopped the move then it worked out exactly as they wanted it to. So job done

Former Former Former

Finally got around to reading yesterday's Irish Times. There's a quote from Guy Easterby that Ala'alatoa will help the younger guys develop. Criiinge.

Former Former Former

sebdavis wrote: »

Munster had Scannell. If Moore came it would have stopped his progress. In the end Scannell went on to represent Ireland at international level
If the IRFU stopped the move then it worked out exactly as they wanted it to. So job done

Yeah, I agree. Would have been a great signing but they needed a replacement for Best and at that point Scannell looked to be the best bet. Didn't pan out that way but I think it was the right call.

sebdavis

thomond2006 wrote: »

Unless there's an injury crisis, Leinster's fourth choice nine is not going to be starting against an opponent like Munster. Leinster aren't lacking at 9 at all.

Depends on the match, Hugh O'Sullivan started yesterday. A match v Munster is not always a top priority

McCarthy move to Munster ended up a waste of his time so hard to know how good he can/can't be. Take Cooney for example, nobody really could see how good he was till he got a run of games. With McGrath & JGP maybe in Ireland camp, with the number of games Leinster play McCarthy should get a good run and everyone can take a call then what level he can play to.

salmocab

Former Former Former wrote: »

Finally got around to reading yesterday's Irish Times. There's a quote from Guy Easterby that Ala'alatoa will help the younger guys develop. Criiinge.

It’s just trotted out for every signing from overseas now. Whilst I’m sure there are young guys who are helped by having old heads on the pitch it is not the reason these guys are signed. They are signed to increase the chances of winning things. Leinster will have one non IQ next season and that’s in a position they supply two top quality options to Ireland in so they shouldn’t feel the need to justify it.

thomond2006

sebdavis wrote: »

Depends on the match, Hugh O'Sullivan started yesterday. A match v Munster is not always a top priority

HOS only started because JGP and Osborne are injured and McGrath needed to be protected for next week. Exactly my point.

sebdavis

thomond2006 wrote: »

HOS only started because JGP and Osborne are injured and McGrath needed to be protected for next week. Exactly my point.

Not sure what your point is? I am talking about McCarthy doing a good job for Leinster. Which from what I have seen so far he will do.

sebdavis

salmocab wrote: »

It’s just trotted out for every signing from overseas now. Whilst I’m sure there are young guys who are helped by having old heads on the pitch it is not the reason these guys are signed. They are signed to increase the chances of winning things. Leinster will have one non IQ next season and that’s in a position they supply two top quality options to Ireland in so they shouldn’t feel the need to justify it.

It's PR stuff. I haven't read the article but they should just come out and say Porter/Furlong will be in Ireland squad so we need backup. Simples.

thomond2006

sebdavis wrote: »

Not sure what your point is? I am talking about McCarthy doing a good job for Leinster. Which from what I have seen so far he will do.

sebdavis wrote: »

At 9 we are lacking. I think McCarthy will do a good job but anything coming after?

My point is that Leinster aren't lacking at 9 at all. JGP and McGrath are good starters and McCarthy will be fine as a backup. It's rare that whoever Leinster's 4th choice ends up being will be playing on the back foot against an opponent like Munster.

sebdavis

thomond2006 wrote: »

My point is that Leinster aren't lacking at 9 at all. JGP and McGrath are good starters and McCarthy will be fine as a backup. It's rare that whoever Leinster's 4th choice ends up being will be playing on the back foot against an opponent like Munster.

I’m talking about academy. Who is coming up in academy.

The game yesterday was of little importance, I would expect every season for these games, no matter who the opponent is, young players will be given a chance.

If the opposition decide to play their first team not much Leinster can do but it does provide good experience for those young players

arsebiscuits1

Former Former Former wrote: »

Finally got around to reading yesterday's Irish Times. There's a quote from Guy Easterby that Ala'alatoa will help the younger guys develop. Criiinge.

I'd implore you to try and find any foreign signing in recent years where some coach hasn't said that.

It's fluff. Meaningless quotes pedalled to print journos so they can write meaningless headlines.

Having said all that, there's also a benefit to having players who come from a different rugby culture. Especially given the lack of disparity between most of the squads background. An outside voice will definitely help.

Especially one whose been a big part of the most dominant super rugby team over the last 3-4 years.

Former Former Former

salmocab wrote: »

It’s just trotted out for every signing from overseas now. Whilst I’m sure there are young guys who are helped by having old heads on the pitch it is not the reason these guys are signed. They are signed to increase the chances of winning things. Leinster will have one non IQ next season and that’s in a position they supply two top quality options to Ireland in so they shouldn’t feel the need to justify it.

Ah yeah I know, it's just such patent bollocks that I wonder why anyone bothers.

Like, just say, "hey, we don't have a single foreign player signed for next season and both our tightheads are in the Ireland squad". Done.

FrannoFan

Former Former Former wrote: »

Ah yeah I know, it's just such patent bollocks that I wonder why anyone bothers.

Like, just say, "hey, we don't have a single foreign player signed for next season and both our tightheads are in the Ireland squad". Done.

Yea. It's just the standard superlatives they trot out. Same with any team playing Italy in 6 nations.

Leinster can't come out and say "furlong is an irish player we get for heineken cup, irfu screwed us around the salanoa business last year so there is a gap in our depth chart. We aren't sure if vakh is crocked so we are left with a 21 year old for the bulk of the season"

It's the first non irish qualified front row I can remember in a long time. There was an embargo on them for ages. Afoa/botha the last time any province have had one as far as I can recall. Even earlier we had to go for parker as he's irish qualified when we were stuck.

salmocab

Former Former Former wrote: »

Ah yeah I know, it's just such patent bollocks that I wonder why anyone bothers.

Like, just say, "hey, we don't have a single foreign player signed for next season and both our tightheads are in the Ireland squad". Done.

I agree, it’s pandering to people who want to moan.