Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108484#Comment_122108484

Its the opposite. If all you had to do was 'lay down a plan' then they'd be at leinster. Leinster can't offer more money, so they aren't.

It comes down to money. If you can't offer more guys won't move. Especially as ireland selection is increasingly decoupled from being a 'starter'.

Obviously that's an advantage to Leinster as they have more talent in province.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107586#Comment_122107586

oh no! The pundits will be calling for a forced extraction move to ....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108490#Comment_122108490

No, it’s not just money. It’s because equally lads like Scott Wilson, Brian Gleeson and Matthew Devine are growing up dreaming of playing for Ulster/Munster/Connacht etc too, just like the young lads in Leinster.

How much money would you honestly be proposing is on offer here? These lads are at the start of their pro careers. They back themselves that they’ll make it, and they aren’t going to have their head turned for an extra €5k or so.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122107847#Comment_122107847

Everybody can have access. Treacy at Connacht. Brigg at Ulster. Michel at Connacht, DeClerk and Berman possibly. The boys are there. Provinces need to make an offer.

Dubinusa

Yea! No private Scholls around London!

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108506#Comment_122108506

Its not JUST money, but its a massive factor on why you don't see more moves. Like are you actually denying that? What a ridiculous argument.

How much money?

I'd say Munster and Ulster would have been willing to go quite a bit higher than whatever Boyle and Prendergast are getting just because of their needs at those positions.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

never ending this.

predictions for tomorrow: Milne, Frawley, Harry B.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108520#Comment_122108520

I'll believe DeKlerk and Berman when its announced. Not saying its not true but you never know. Sometimes these are floated to get leinster to offer.

I don't believe any of them on that list had a leinster offer but who knows.

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108435#Comment_122108435

At some point though if you have enough squat racks/dumbbells/basic machines, your returns are diminishing by introducing "better equipment". Its the basics that make a pro athlete, good nutrition, good sleep, good exercise, great genetics. If you have all 4 and train well you will get a chance of going pro.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108528#Comment_122108528

Well not that much higher obviously - they could have offered them full contracts if they wanted to (and we know those initial contracts are relatively small money) but they didn’t feel the need to do that.

The thing is - guys like Prendergast and Boyle are on Leinster’s radar from before the age of 15 probably, and have player development officers talking to them etc from that juncture. They’re both elite talents who will back themselves to make the grade wherever they go, so they’re going to go to where they think they’ve the best prospect for development and for the province they grew up supporting and wanting to play for.

Can’t remotely see how that surprising or a difficult concept.

Dubinusa

Has Milne signed? What about Deeny?

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108564#Comment_122108564

Deeny signed today.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108541#Comment_122108541

Why do you think Prendergast was on a senior deal when he was? Other provinces probably offered him.

Of course, players want to play for their home province. You keep saying that like its not something i said. And they will go to their home province unless other provinces can tip the balance to get them. And that thing is MONEY.

Money, money, money. How many times can i say that before you acknowledge that the thing that makes the world go round could influence **** career choices? Jesus christ.

If after one year in the academy, Ulster could say to Prendergast, hey we'll offer you double the senior deal they are offering. We need a long term ten and we will deal with the growing pains. We don't have one in the pipeline or in the senior squad and we are desperate.

Would that influence his decision? Would leinster have to up their offer? Would how much they pay influence how much they pay other players?

Dubinusa

Now some are saying that Deegan is an uderachiever. Why? He wants to stay at Leinster, obviously. I'm delighted he's staying. I can't get this mindset that he's not mentally tough enough to play for Ulster.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108575#Comment_122108575

How much money do you actually think is feasible to tempt an academy player to another province. Bearing in mind that they're more or less on minimum wage.

Realistically a province could only offer a marginal increase otherwise they'd be massively overpaying on an unproven talent.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108575#Comment_122108575

So your grand theory about the “in built IRFU protection” that Leinster benefit from is the inability of the other provinces to get into bidding wars for teenagers?

You really think that would be a good outcome for Irish rugby, and if not, that the reason the IRFU do not permit this is because of solid, structural reasons for the benefit of Irish rugby?

Sam Prendergast doesn’t want to go to Ulster to be their long term 10 because he believes he’ll be the Leinster long term 10. Plain and simple.

If the provinces could free for all outbid each other for talent, wouldn’t that suit Leinster best of all? As the wealthiest province who generate lots of cash, wouldn’t they disproportionately benefit from such an (incredibly ill-advised) model?

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108617#Comment_122108617

Who said it would be a good outcome for irish rugby?

I just said its a clear advantage for Leinster, which it obviously is.

I don't think it would benefit Leinster most of all because they have alot more talent judging from ireland selection. But it would be interesting. Especially in the longer term as free bidding would probably make central contracts more evenly distributed.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108606#Comment_122108606

Depends on the player and the need. Especially if they are potentially central contract talents.

I'd say the biggest disparity is the first senior deal. Some guys you just know coming out of the academy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108636#Comment_122108636

So because the other provinces can’t throw money at teenagers (who are from and produced by Leinster) that’s some kind of grand unfairness in Leinster’s favour?

Even though- oh wait that’s right, they can. They actually have the option to do exactly what you’re suggesting and to offer senior contracts to these academy age guys if they want to - just like Connacht did with Sam Illo.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108705#Comment_122108705

You are flailing dude. We've been over and back this already.

Its an advantage that other irish teams can't bid on Leinster players.

Offering senior deals as the only loophole is obviously not as impactful as being able to outbid on senior deals or academy deals.

This is absolutely obvious. Anyone with even a passing idea of how markets work would know this is an advantage if you have more talent.

I'll copy and paste. Answer the questions below.

If after one year in the academy, Ulster could say to Prendergast, hey we'll offer you double the senior deal they are offering. We need a long term ten and we will deal with the growing pains. We don't have one in the pipeline or in the senior squad and we are desperate. 

Would that influence his decision? Would leinster have to up their offer? Would how much they pay influence how much they pay other players? 

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108230#Comment_122108230

Leinster kids want to play for Leinster

You seem to think that offering kids a few extra quid will suddenly make them not want to play for Leinster

From what I can gather here, you big plan is not to develop players in the other provinces, just stand outside the Leinster academy with a bag of cash and hope some of the young players will take it.

Not really a great plan for anyone in rugby, never mind the kids in the other provinces with dream to play for the,

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108755#Comment_122108755

I think humans are humans and money influences the average human's career choices.

Its 2024, and i have to tell someone this.

I also don't understand why anyone thinks this is my 'plan'. I just said it was an obvious advantage and people who are using the 'fan' side of their brain decided to argue.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108642#Comment_122108642

You didn't answer my question. An academy player is on €25k as an example. And Munster want him. How much money is enough to tempt that player? Anything more than €5k or even €7.5k a year will not be signed off by a province. And €7.5k a year won't tempt a player who wants to play for Leinster.

So you can shout money all you like and whilst conceptually you're not wrong, the fact that these are academy players means the money will never be there to financially attract them.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108745#Comment_122108745

This idea (coming from someone who usually posts intelligently) is absolutely crazy.

Encouraging wage inflation to encourage talented teenagers to move province as an answer to the present percieved inbalance in talent production ?.

What next, agent fees for 13 yr olds ?. Provincial scouts at mini rugby games ?.

If Lenster entered this marketplace, their ability to offer more to the best prospects from all of Ireland would severely limit the prospects of some Leinster prospects. Would they, failing to find an Academy place in their home province, fall away from rugby altogether, or take up Academy offers in Connacht, Ulster or Munster ?. How would this improve those provinces ?.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108970#Comment_122108970

I didn't say it was a good idea to change it. I said its an advantage Leinster have.

You can point out an advantage without advocating for change. And to be clear, i'm not advocating for change.

I was asked what in built protections leinster have and this is the main one.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108866#Comment_122108866

They are on more like 10k. 40/50k might do it.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122109025#Comment_122109025

What, if any, 'in built protections' would you see provinces other than Leinster having ?.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122109100#Comment_122109100

They all have the same protections but they kind of inherently help the team with more talent as they tend towards helping retention.

The original argument was Leinster and clubs outside ireland though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122108745#Comment_122108745

Yeah, sure, I’m the one who is flailing here.

The bigger issue is the defeatist attitude from the fans of the other provinces that they can’t seem to compete with Leinster by producing their own talent, and the only conceivable option for them is to take from Leinster to help themselves. That’s a pretty big problem right there.

As we’ve covered, already, quite a few times now, they absolutely have the option you’re touting for here. They have an option to make offers and gazump Leinster (the proof of this is the fact Leinster have already had to give Prendergast a senior deal to fend off other provinces). But even within that, they can’t be stupid about it and throw stupid money at these kids because there is absolutely no such thing as a can’t miss prospect (not Prendergast, not Brian Gleeson, no one).

ulsteru20s

Edit: never mind. We aren't going to agree.