Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Akrasia

Jordi Barrett was a joke.

Finding a top class 10 is not easy. Munster went through Ian Keatley, Joey Carbery, Tyler Bleyandaal, JJ Hanrahan (twice) Ben Healy before finally getting Crowley to where he is today.

Its not just finding a good 10, it's finding one who fits the system, or is good enough that you can build a team around his strengths in the medium to long term.

Some of those players were of the required standard but haunted by injuries, others were great players but inconsistent, and the likes of Ben Healy is international standard but we couldn't keep him because of his own personal ambition didn't fit his place in the Irish depth chart

If Crowley were to get a long term injury tomorrow, Munster would be in big trouble, Tony Butler has potential but is nowhere near the level of Crowley at the moment, and Burns remains to be seen how he will fit into the Munster style of play that we have built around Jack's strengths at out half.

Exclamation Marc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201063#Comment_122201063

Spot on. It's a bit like trying to replace a coaching ticket in that sport fans are somewhat conditioned to the football-mentality of 'if the current striker isn't good enough, move him on and get a new striker' and there's a catalogue of hundreds of suitable options.

I would hazard that there are no ready-made 10s out there that Leinster could pick up for next season who are 'good enough' to be Leinster's starting 10 out the gate; whether its down to availability, suitability or IRFU policy. And if there was an option, are they a long-term solution (which we would need) or a stop-gap that could potentially do more damage down the line.

We have to develop who we have.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200960#Comment_122200960

If everyone is healthy, it makes no sense to drop someone like Henshaw or Keenan. If Leinster want to have their strongest backline on the pitch you play Barrett on the right wing. Lowe with his left boot, Barrett with his right boot and Keenan covering the backline is stellar, Henshaw and Ringrose is as tried and tested a centre duo in World Rugby. Frawley and Osborne off the bench capable of covering 10-15. Ideal

LostArt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201029#Comment_122201029

Also looks like Europe is kicking off the weekend after Ireland v Australia so that will be tricky to manage.

Must love hardship

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201092#Comment_122201092

I wouldn't be suprised to see Lowe miss out in some games with Barrett playing w15 with Keenan playing wing.

Lowe isn't getting any faster.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200992#Comment_122200992

Oh you're talking about planning for a specific opposition. I'd say it's fairly obvious if you asked the other teams who is their biggest threat, the majority would say leinster. Don't you think so?

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201235#Comment_122201235

I absolutely think so.

I also think if you asked the Leinster coaching team and analysts, who their biggest threat is, La Rochelle and Toulouse would've been the top of that queue for the last 3 seasons. Prior to that it would've been Saracens.

Saying they can't sensibly plan for any individual team doesn't stack up. If you mean recruitment-wise, no team is going to plan their recruitment to beat an individual team.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201261#Comment_122201261

Fair Enough on the planning.

On recruitment, Leinster has gone out and recruited a player in a position that was weak in those years they lost to sarries and La Rochelle, but isn't weak anymore. I don't get that

And they got a utility back which is handy, but does he even play 10? In which case they still don't have 10 cover beyond Frawley. I don't get the plan.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201321#Comment_122201321

With 10, it seems like the IRFU don't want any of the provinces to have an NIQ 10. (Ulster looked to be in pretty dire straights there). I can't see them sanctioning one for Leinster given the depth there at the moment.

With the Jordie Barrett thing, when a player of his calibre comes along and is interested, it's difficult to say no.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201209#Comment_122201209

I wouldn't be surprised either if Lowe did miss out but I can see Leinster wanting to add more physical presence on the right wing. Jordan Larmour, Jimmy O'Brien, Rob Russell and Tommy O'Brien are all of a certain size and stature. A Leinster player I really enjoyed who's career was cut short by injury was Adam Byrne. While he was injured more than he was healthy, I loved seeing the physical presence he brought in from the right wing. Lowe offers that on the left wing in spades. Barrett will do the same and then some. Leinster with the RG Snyman, Jordie Barrett and the previous rumors of Taniela Tupou seem to be prioritizing overwhelming size, bulk, skillful playmakers and ball carriers who are going to monster the opposition. I expect Leinster to play a very physical brand of defense next year under Nienaber and the additions they made will definitely help with his vision. I also expect Tyler Bleyendaal to have a massive impact in getting the backs and Leinster attack firing on all cylinders.

Exclamation Marc

Team named for Connacht:

Prendergast and Foley to start which is excellent. Still no sign of Ringrose.

Some tank on Osborne to be starting after playing 100 minutes last week.

Clegg

Very surprised to see Jamie Osborne start. He played all 100 minutes last weekend.

Great to see TOB and Ngatai in the squad as well. Was worried they had both suffered season ending injuries against Ulster.

arsebiscuits1

Last RDS appearances for Ruddock, Molony, Byrne. Absolute servants to Leinster. 510 caps between them.

They deserve an absolutely enormous send off.

And I should mention with due respect Ala'alatoa who will earn an insanely impressive 70th cap for us on his final RDS appearance. Huge return from 3 seasons. And Ngatai also whose last RDS appearance it will be also - injuries hindered the impact he could have had. But he's had some good days.

Glad to see Foley get the start. Hopefully he can actually play the majority of his time at 9.

El_Duderino 09

Prendergast starting show serious intent to play him more next year and dissuade him from going to connacht?

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201528#Comment_122201528

Let Ruddock kick a conversion and we can call it quits.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201544#Comment_122201544

Potentially, though 4 starts and 400 minutes for someone who turned 21 during the season is pretty good going anyway.

Harry must be a bit miffed, but he may have to get used to it.

AbusesToilets

I'm not so sure Lowe will be the locked in first choice wing next season. There's pretty stiff competition coming through. JOB and Osborne are both options there, especially next season when Barrett is likely starting at 12 or 15

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201489#Comment_122201489

What are they trying to do to poor Frawley

Back at 12 again! its his best position and all but my God he's been moved around ridiculously at this stage.

Im not impressed…he also took another blow to the head and all at the weekend.

Why have Ngatai on the bench? I mean he's the one who should be starting.

Is Turner injured?

ionadnapokot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201544#Comment_122201544

It does look like that doesnt it?!

either that or Harry Byrne has thrown a strop!

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200815#Comment_122200815

I agree re: depth etc. But the reality is, that losing so many players during international Windows, not having the small drop off to the back up lads and trying to reintegration internationals is a tough ask. Factor in injuries and this switch to a new style and this is where we are. Leinster have choked in Euro finals, imo. The question is, is this a mental problem? A leadership problem? Coaching?

My guess is a combination of all the above. Mostly coaching this year. Different opposition merit different game plans. I see Leinster are unable to develop and instill a successful plan with the coaching set up as it is. The poor attac needs to be addressed, the constant sloppiness and the tactics need questioning.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201813#Comment_122201813

I dunno about this - obviously age creeps up on players, especially back three players, but he's still had an absolutely superb season. I think he's so important to how Leinster and Ireland typically attack, and has the ability to suck in two or more defenders in wide channels making space for others.

To me, it's still the 14 shirt up for grabs in the back three, not the 11 shirt.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201861#Comment_122201861

Yep, Turner supposedly broke his hand in training a few weeks ago.

Dubinusa

That's a fairly callow side for Connacht. Seriously underpowered pack, imo.

RichieRich_89

If they are wedded to the idea of 6-2 when putting out the strongest selection it would be interesting to see 6. Baird, 7. van der Flier, 8. Doris; 20. Conan, 23. Deegan sometime. Deegan is well able to fill in at openside, and has often been very good when used as an impact sub.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202021#Comment_122202021

Underpowered?

It's a pretty strong Connacht pack - don't really see where they could have been much stronger up front apart from maybe including Shamus Hurley Langton. It's a strong front row, probably their strongest lock combo, and a dynamic backrow with Prendergast and Oliver. Jansen is a good carrier with good pace too.

The Leinster pack by contrast has Molony and Deeny in the second row?

EDIT: Sorry if you meant here the Leinster pack was callow and underpowered I know what you mean. Think it was kind of unavoidable when so many players played 100+ of test match or higher intensity less than a week ago though.

Also - suspect despite the momentum impact, it might suit Leinster to finish 4th rather than 3rd here.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202112#Comment_122202112

Think he means a callow Leinster pack to face Connacht and I'd agree.

Burkie1203

SA trip is timed a little better but still not ideal.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201813#Comment_122201813

I would say that Lowe is unsuited stylistically to that defense as well.

I'd like to see ringrose tried there. He has the best defensive instincts on edge i think.

ironingbored

Do you need a World Class outhalf to win the Champions Cup?

1996 – Christophe Deylaud (Toulouse) 21 – 18 Cardiff (Adrian Davies)

1997 - Alain Penaud (Brive) 28 – 9 Leicester (Rob Liley)

1998 – Mike Catt (Bath) 19 – 18 Brive (Alain Penaud)

1999 – David Humphreys (Ulster) 21 – 6 Colomiers (Laurent Labit)

2000 – Andy Helpher (Northampton) 9 – 8 Munster (Ronan O’Gara)

2001 – Andy Goode (Leicester) 34 – 30 Stade Francais (Diego Domínguez)

2002 – Austin Healey (Leicester) 15 – 9 Munster (Ronan O’Gara)

2003 – Yann Delaigue (Toulouse) 22 – 17 Perpignan (Manuel Edmonds)

2004 – Alex King (Wasps) 27 – 20 Toulouse (Yann Delaigue)

2005 – David Skrela (Toulouse) 18 – 12 Stade Francais (Freddie Michalak)

2006 – Ronan O’Gara (Munster) 23 - 19 Biarritz (Julien Peyrelongue)

2007 – Alex King (Wasps) 25 – 9 Leicester (Andy Goode)

2008 – Ronan O’Gara (Munster) 16 – 13 Toulouse (Jean-Baptiste Élissalde)

2009 - Johnny Sexton (Leinster) 19 – 16 Leicester (Sam Vesty)

2010 - David Skrela (Toulouse) 21 – 19 Biarritz (Julien Peyrelongue)

2011 – Johnny Sexton (Leinster) 33 – 22 Northampton (Stephen Myler)

2012 – Johnny Sexton (Leinster) 42 – 14 Ulster (Paddy Jackson)

2013 – Johnny Wilkinson (Toulon) 16 – 15 Clermont (Brock James)

2014 – Johnny Wilkinson (Toulon) 23 – 6 Saracens (Owen Farrell)

2015 - Matt Giteau (Toulon) 24 – 18 Clermont (Camille Lopez)

2016 – Owen Farrell (Saracens) 21 – 9 Racing (Dan Carter)

2017 – Owen Farrell (Saracens) 28 - 17 Clermont (Camille Lopez)

2018 – Johnny Sexton (Leinster) 15 – 12 Racing (Pat Lambie)

2019 – Owen Farrell (Saracens) 20 – 10 Leinster (Johnny Sexton)

2020 – Joe Simmonds (Exeter) 31 – 27 Racing (Finn Russell)

2021 - Romain Ntamack (Toulouse) 22 – 17 La Rochelle (Ihaia West)

2022 - Ihaia West (La Rochelle) 24 – 21 Leinster (Johnny Sexton)

2023 - Antoine Hastoy (La Rochelle) 27 – 26 Leinster (Ross Byrne)

2024 – Romain Ntamack (Toulouse) 31 – 22 Leinster (Ross Byrne)

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202757#Comment_122202757

I forgot all about so many of these players, even David Skrela who was a decent player for France in what was a relatively weak era for them. They have improved so much since then.