Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694107#Comment_121694107

Ulster have not offered Burns a contract by all accounts.

The IRFU don't owe either Connacht or Ulster anything if these moves happen.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694241#Comment_121694241

i would have liked to have seen kilgallon come to leinster actually. Lowe is 31 and playing less and less minutes with Leinster these days. Just over 500 last season, and only 160 this season so far. ireland will be wanting to get every last drop of performance out of him so he will be very well minded.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694275#Comment_121694275

With Leinster seemingly currently looking to lure Tom O'Toole to Leinster, it seems that Leinster seem to be looking to hold onto their NIQ designations which is very interesting. So far, RG Snyman is the only player with a NIQ designation for Leinster next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they are looking to hold onto the designation to replace the likes of Lowe in the near future.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694244#Comment_121694244

Ulster clearly have a solid line on a replacement for Burns , they wouldn't just let him go without a plan in place.

Will it be Frawley/HB or have they designs on another South African - Willemse perhaps?

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693454#Comment_121693454

Aye! Indeed. The anti Leinster bias is in full swing.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694045#Comment_121694045

They chose to allow RG to leave. Killer is 2nd choice at best. Carberry wants to leave and is not really a good out half. The retirements are tough, tbf and yet they may be getting Burns, Dillane and Kilgallen. They just signed Jager!

Munster remember allowed Ryan and Cronin to leave! They're rumored to be signing Milne. That's a loss for Leinster, if true. Billy Burns is a better 10 than Carberry, imo. Fair play to Munster if they succeed getting these players. It makes them stronger.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694107#Comment_121694107

What will they do? Obviously someone from Leinster will leave.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694847#Comment_121694847

I wish I had your confidence that Ulster have a plan. If they have a plan it seems to be to drive the supporters away.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694959#Comment_121694959

Clearly Billy Burns isn't part of Ulster's long term plans, so his potential move to Munster makes sense. I think it would be beneficial for someone like Harry Byrne to go up North to Ulster. Doak and Byrne have similar age profiles and both are considered to have realistic opportunities to be part of the next world cup cycle.

I just don't see how Connacht benefit from this and how they are meant to remain competitive as a province when they are getting one of their better up and coming players taken off them. They have Mack Hansen and Santiago Cordero both healthy next season which is a great wing duo. If it was Leinster who had a glut of talent and they were poached, that is fine because they have the necessary strength in depth to replace the outgoing player. I just feel bad for a Connacht team who need every talented player they can get.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694970#Comment_121694970

I'm not trying to hate on Ulster, but my God if ever they could use a complete reset in terms of director of rugby, head coach and current philosophy within the province, this off-season would be the time to do it.

They have some wonderful talent up North but it never seems to push on and it is an incredible shame to see so many quality prospects not pushing on to the next level.

People seemed to have glossed over the fact that its reported that Ulster aren't offering Burns a contract for next season. I don't know how that can be equated to the IRFU weakening one province to help another.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695374#Comment_121695374

Two messages ago I admitted that it is fair that since Ulster aren't offering Burns another contract so he is more than within his right to move elsewhere and do whatever he wants and Ulster need to go and find another fly half.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695100#Comment_121695100

Yep. It's awful for Connacht

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695440#Comment_121695440

It's baffling to me. Flannery is not trusted! Burns has been a good signing.

El Vino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693454#Comment_121693454

Munster shouldn't be responsible for paying the Irish Captain, surely that is what Central Contracts are for? I'd argue he would be better value to them if he was dropped or retired from International duty.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696209#Comment_121696209

Agreed. Give him what he's worth.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121696209#Comment_121696209

I agree fully. The IRFU will be setting a very dangerous precedent if they don't offer O'Mahony a contract.

Serbian

Ulster are also rumoured to have made a £900k loss last season, largely driven by the fact that they couldn't host La Rochelle in Ravenhill (probably lost out to the tune of £700k+ on that one alone). Billy Burns is 29, so he's at a period of his career where he's going to give one last push to get paid. Maybe with the losses in mind, Ulster have decided to not up their spend on a guy they don't fully believe in.

The vast majority of provincial contracting is already done so Ulster already know who they are or aren't getting, so must be satisfied with whatever deal they've done. I'd be exceptionally surprised if it was Harry Byrne, he's our number 2 for a few years yet. Prendergast's time will come, but he's still 20 and far from the finished article. I'd be hoping he's pushing for the number one spot in 2025/26 season realistically. The age profiles of Ross, Harry and Sam all line up nicely to form a good succession plan.

Does that mean that Frawley is going north? A lot more likely than Harry, but there's also Leinster's forgotten man, Charlie Tector. He'll be 22, has the same pedigree as Prendergast (u20s grand slam winning starting 10) and looks to be a very good player. He's a year ahead of Prendergast, so pushing for a starting berth next season would be about the right timing for his career. He'll also be a lot cheaper than both Harry and Frawley.

My guess is that Ulster are willing to back Flannery for next season and are going to take a gamble on Tector coming good in a season or so.

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121694275#Comment_121694275

Pains me to say it as a Connacht fan but either Kilgallen or Bolton would be a great fit for Leinster imo. Both the type of powerful, abrasive athlete that doesn't seem to come through the Leinster academy. Both are probably as good as it will get in terms of replacing Lowe, at least in terms of power. I can't imagine Irish rugby producing a player with Lowe's combination of power, playmaking, and kicking ability any time soon.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121698994#Comment_121698994

I wonder would Marty Moore be a casualty of the cuts for Ulster. Can't imagine with them wanting to save money and Scott Wilson coming through the academy that they are looking to offer Moore anything more than a one year deal.

I know Leo and Moore had a falling out over his conditioning and refusal to slim down but that was 8 years ago and I wonder can they bury the hatchet and get a deal done.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699071#Comment_121699071

I can see Leinster outsourcing for another winger in the future. They have some good players like Jordan Larmour, Rob Russell, Tommy O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien as well as young players like Andrew Osborne, Aitzol King but I expect them to get another big booted left footed winger similar to Lowe not next season but the season after.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699079#Comment_121699079

I know Leo and Moore had a falling out over his conditioning and refusal to slim down but that was 8 years ago and I wonder can they bury the hatchet and get a deal done.

Why?

It's not like his conditioning has improved and whilst he has some good qualities as a Prop , they really aren't remotely a fit for the game that Leinster play.

Moore would struggle massively to fit into the Leinster game plan.

If Moore isn't part of the Ulster plans for the next few years I'd say he could pick up a decent contract in France in one of the up and coming Pro D2 sides that are spending money at the moment , much better fit for his skillset.

Clegg

Leinster have been looking at Tom O'Toole if the Bel Tel is to be believed. Doubt we've any interest in Moore.

Dubinusa

I think a bokke will come in to replace big Mike. Would probably be inexpensive and buys time for Clarkson and McGuire.

Aitzol King could get playing time over the next month. I rate this lad and have feeling he could be a fine player.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699893#Comment_121699893

I think at this stage, you are right, it probably will be a Bok but it has been interesting that they tried to get Tom O'Toole. It makes me think would they consider Jack Aungier? They could easily go out and find a NIQ TH but they focused on O'Toole first, why is that? Are they worried about Furlong long term? Are they looking to hold onto the NIQ designations for different positions? Were they just trying to take advantage of Ulster's salary cap difficulties?

I am probably digging way too deep but has me curious.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121699071#Comment_121699071

I mean, Osbourne is literally all that, plus the ability to play across the entire backline. If he could just get an injury free run...

realhorrorshow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700225#Comment_121700225

Probably should have been more clear, I was referring to back 3 players only, which is where I could see either Bolton or Kilgallen filling a gap. I imagine Osborne will primarily play centre moving forward. The Leinster academy isn't churning out many power wingers, more so smaller footballers like Russell, JOB, Keenan, Cosgrave, etc. Aitzol King is probably the exception to the rule, but the Connacht lads mentioned are a good bit ahead of him in terms of first team readiness right now.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700161#Comment_121700161

O'Toole would have been a fine signing. Aungier too. But who would want to come in and back up Furlong?

If Munster do not sign John Ryan, I would sign him for a year.

Dubinusa

Not sure about signing a wing. Russell and O'Brien are good quality. JOB would be involved if healthy! What would Kilgannon bring that these lads don't?

We have good prospects in the academy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700161#Comment_121700161

I think the issue is, or why O'Toole would have been desirable, is it allows for some long term planning.

THP is a cornerstone position, and even if you could probably find a better player than O'Toole right now on the NIQ market, you really only get one contract out of them, whereas TOT is 25 and a guy you can long term plan around.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700489#Comment_121700489

I think the 2nd Tighthead at Leinster is actually a really good role. Furlong isn't going to play every week so that player will get a lot of game time, They will be working alongside a lot of the starters for Ireland and bench players meaning easier to see a natural fit for the Ireland team if they play well. The likelihood of representing Ireland usually goes up representing Leinster so Aungier might get more opportunities internationally.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700685#Comment_121700685

I wonder if they think Clarkson is reaching that level? I have to say, he's made strides this season. I wouldn't mind Aungier. But he's fairly certain to be starting for Connacht in the future. What does Bealham have left?

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701048#Comment_121701048

I like Clarkson alot but if Furlong was to get injured next season, Leinster are left very very light in terms of top quality. Aungier isn't there either but he is on his way.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701258#Comment_121701258

Very true. But I am really liking what I have seen from Clarkson. It'd be nice if McGuire stepped up some also. I've seen him play for UCD recently and he's been decent.

I suppose a NIQ is probably on the cards.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701258#Comment_121701258

Speaking of Furlong, he's only got 1 more year on his contract! He could be out the door then. Or a big $$$ offer from abroad.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701534#Comment_121701534

I'm really liking how well Clarkson is developing too but I think that Leinster know their is a year or two gap between when Clarkson and McGuire potentially hit peak years of playing. They probably feel the same about Jack Boyle and Paddy McCarthy. They have Porter long term and Cian Healy (probably for another season).

Leinster know that they are maybe a good back up tighthead prop away from giving Nienaber everything he needs to succeed in all competitions.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121702085#Comment_121702085

I think Furlong probably stays put, He knows his worth but I think Leinster and Ireland will keep him on a central contract and Furlong probably won't push to hard for a move abroad.

sydthebeat

@Dubinusa

do you know there is a way to edit your posts so that you dont have to quote the same post twice to say what you want?

after you post you will see three dots where the post number is (ie in this case its #22735)

you have the ability to edit the post up to 24 hours after you post.

im only saying this as you seem to have a habit of posting multiple replies to a post, or multiple times in a row with no quote, so i assume you didnt know about this feature.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704482#Comment_121704482

I didn't know. Sorry for the repeaters.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705601#Comment_121705601

No hassle.

jonok28

I don't think this is true but I heard a rumour that Leinster are waiting to see what happens with the Melbourne Rebels financial situation. They are potentially going into administration which for any club is terrible. If it were to occur, Leinster are planning on swooping in for Tighthead Taniela Tupou. If true, that would be a monstrous signing for Leinster.

sydthebeat

They've already gone into voluntary administration.

ARU will finance them to compete this season in SR, due to TV commitments, but won't guarantee anything after that.

TT would be an absolutely mammoth signing!

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709566#Comment_121709566

I hope it is true! but I have my doubts. A signing of that calibre would be huge but does it create a headache for Leinster?

With Furlong and Tupou both considered to be amongst the best tighthead props in the world, who would start?

If it was Tupou, would Furlong be ok with that? and visa versa? Would the IRFU block the signing as they believe it might stop the likes of Tom Clarkson and Rory McGuire developing?

If like the Snyman deal, it was a one year (Two at best) deal, then maybe it can be justified but it feels like the IRFU are really keeping a close eye on Leinster and their dealings in the market after Snyman.

I would have called BS on the rumour right away but Leinster making the call about TOT has me curious with what Leinster are up to in the market at tighthead.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

Yeah thats not happening.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709785#Comment_121709785

I agree with you actually, Very low likelihood it will happen, was just passing on a rumour I heard that I found interesting.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709646#Comment_121709646

I'd agree with your last line. If Leinster are sounding out IQ TH props, it may be a case that they have not received any dispensation to sign an NIQ in that position

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709945#Comment_121709945

Potentially. The way I read into Tom O'Toole talks was that Ulster were having some financial hardships and Leinster pounced on the chance to bag an IQ tighthead prop who is an Irish International. To be fair, if Ulster had to shed some players, I think the IRFU would have been perfectly fine with O'Toole to Leinster instead of losing him abroad, but obviously he is key to Ulster's long term plans and is probably untouchable.

Leinster clearly want a starting calibre tighthead. I'm not saying that Furlong is going anywhere, I'm just saying that they know he isn't a play every match player and they want a 1B to Furlong's 1A. O'Toole would have fit that role perfectly.

I can't see the IRFU stopping Leinster from signing NIQ players, unless they completely block the route for a high potential player from claiming a Leinster jersey. Even Snyman doesn't block the route of any player next year He is playing the Jenkins role. 1st Lock off the bench, which suits Leinster and Snyman down to the ground because that is when he is most impactful.

They need a tighthead and if they lose Frawley to Ulster, they will need a Utility back capable of playing all across the back line.

Buer

I would expect that Leinster were approaching TOT regardless of whether they had approval for a NIQ or not.

He's a good player, only up the road and I wouldn't expect his salary to differ from Ala'alatoa's much. Perhaps even less. He's not from Ulster so potentially doesn't have such a close link to the area so would be seen as someone that could be persuaded to relocate.

I'm happy that he turned it down though. Ulster have enough problems.

jonok28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710191#Comment_121710191

I agree with you. I wouldn't have liked to see TOT come down to Leinster if it meant Ulster got significantly weaker at the position. There seems to be a narrative that Leinster fans just want all the other provinces good players. I think most Leinster fans want all the provinces to do well, just not better than Leinster.

I would love to see who is on Leinster's shortlist to replace Ala'alatoa. It is literally the only position that worries me next season.

Dubinusa

Whatever about Ulster's financial situation, they needed to keep O'Toole. I would love him at Leinster but, weakening Ulster is not ideal. I still think we will sign a saffer. Maybe not a star player but someone who can offer something similar to what Ala'alatoa has done.