Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Clegg

Looked at the Squidge analysis of the final.

It's pretty clear now that Byrne was angling for the drop goal, but JGP was playing for the try. Ross was organising his forwards in a way that the subsequent rucks would position himself more centrally to go for the kick. But the 9 wasn't on the same page.

Think the damage is done public perception wise though.

scott1974

WTAF...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65694650

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637317#Comment_120637317

No idea how this would work. Can't see many 20 year old Irish lads wanting to go and play for Zebre.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636253#Comment_120636253

More like when Burns is unavailable or to give him a break.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636940#Comment_120636940

Who can afford an agent on an academy wage?

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637398#Comment_120637398

Pretty much all of them have some form of representation be it official agents or in some players cases family act as agent/representatve and like in any other sport,. family etc pay.

durthacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637291#Comment_120637291

That is the best analysis of the final in my opinion - better than any pundit or any journalist.

He is much more complimentary about Byrne than I expected as he makes a strong case that Byrne was playing for a drop goal but that JGP was working to a different plan. It's very thought provoking and intelligent analysis.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637551#Comment_120637551

That's a leadership problem? Why aren't they on the same page? Very poor!

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637695#Comment_120637695

It really comes down to that and it clarified one of the great differences between Leinster and Ireland. Without sexton and Ryan noone took charge of the attack with any authority and I’ll bet JGP would have been looking for direction from Sexton in those minutes if he had been on the field. For Ireland POM and Beirne would step up, maybe Henshaw too. I expected Ringrose to do it as he was captain but it’s not a strength of his. It also asks a question about the coaching guidance for those scenarios, particularly because it was always likely to come down to a late score.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636998#Comment_120636998

Hmmm... there can be over 100 rucks in a match, so we're talking getting 95 of the right. La Rochelle are really good at playing on the edge and being sinister so are harder to ref. They'll have more offenses that aren't black or white. Lying on players after you clear them out of a ruck for example. Usually, that's not an issue and you wouldn't ping for it but it is if you 200kg it is and the materiality may be two phases later or it might be nothing, so it's harder to objectify.

Number 137

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638001#Comment_120638001

There are on average 180 rucks per game give or take. Based on my experience of discussing refereeing with fellow supporters and posters on this forum, as well as other forums, there is very clearly a very poor understanding of materiality.

Referees will make mistakes in every game. The good referees get the big calls right more often than not. There is a huge amount of grey in rugby refereeing and that means a lot of the laws are open to interpretation which will lead to inconsistencies. Those inconsistencies are the same for every team though. Yes, it can be very frustrating, but that is where we are. Law makers are the ones to take issue with, not the referees, in my humble opinion.

I'm not having a go at anyone here, just to be clear. Just expressing a view really.

Tim Robbins

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638791#Comment_120638791

It's all to do with speed. There used to be an 50% accuracy (max) on foul play. And the TMO came in, now it's way higher but it has slowed the game down.

You want the same for ruck offenses the game will be longer than american football.

Sometimes, fans don't understand how ruck laws are applied or that they change nearly every year. So bear that in mind.

Dubinusa

There's got to be a point in the match where the coaches realize that the kicking game is not working and something needs to change.

When the kicking game is a disadvantage, where is the alternative? If the team is on the backfoot because the team can't clear their zone, why not bring on the subs earlier?

conquestscarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638929#Comment_120638929

Did the exact same kicking tactic against Toulouse and it worked because they conceded a few mistakes. It flipped on us on saturday with the two out on the fulls. Only 3 games we haven't clearly won the kicking battle this year, Toulouse, La Rochelle, and Munster(Bulls game was pretty even). Those three games where we were most under pressure aswell.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639339#Comment_120639339

Connected to this too - Brice Dulin was absolutely top class against us on Saturday. He sliced his very first kick (that led to Sheehan's first try) and after that did not make another mistake all afternoon, and covered virtually every blade of grass shutting off kicks.

We made mistakes on the four or five well highlighted kicks, but we didn't get much change out of kicking long to Dulin either.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639399#Comment_120639399

So if the kicking game is crap, as it was last Saturday, why continue to play this way? Is there not a plan B? It kind of reminds me of Ireland's cluelessness under Schmidt 4 years ago.

I don't think anyone would agree that Park was good last week. For that matter, Lowe was very poor. Maybe Leinster needed Larmour to try beat defenders and create holes?

I have no idea as to why something that was not working was stuck with. Maybe the bench emptied early in the 2nd half might have helped.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639804#Comment_120639804

What's more disappointing was that players like Henshaw or Ringrose didn't demand the ball more. Players that senior should have recognized that things weren't working and making a change.

ulsteru20s

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640182#Comment_120640182

Neither of them are really playmakers. I know when they play with sexton for ireland or leinster, they are capable of being at first receiver and making a pass but that is different from being a playmaker. Its not really fair to expect that of them.

They could have brought on frawley at 12/15 and tried to go to a double playmaker situation but that’s not super normal for leinster i feel.

The kicking plan seemed standard for leinster for me but LaRochelle didn’t either lose the kicking battle, get turned over on the run back, or gave the ball back in some way. Typically leinster get the ball back further up the field from kicking long, and then either by lineout, or turnover, or via a bad kick they attack off that. The game plan is reactive by design. Changing that on the fly is hard.

One thing, i feel like they could have done, is try to go to width on their 10 meter line or on the 22 and kick from there so they might be better able to find grass with the kick. That’s a wrinkle that fits in their existing plan.

Edit; also the existing game plan DESTROYS teams. They murder good teams all the time with that plan. They are really good at that style of play.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120640182#Comment_120640182

Indeed. Very disappointing.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634934#Comment_120634934

Pity they did not clone players like Shane Jennings. May not have been top dog internationals but when the going got tough you want them on the field.

Dubinusa

I'm unsure of what next season will be like. With the world cup being played and Leinster likely being shorthanded from the off.

I suppose the big? Is, will JN improve our deficiencies? Will the loss of Stu be a major problem? Sexton gone too and now the ball is in Ross Byrne's hands. Has the squad improved?

With Leinster not detailing the lengths of contracts, I am not sure of the full squad.

Out for 23/24

D.K, Sexton and possibly Healy. Is there anyone else leaving?

In,

Russell, Soroka and McKee.

pickarooney

Nick McCarthy is leaving

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641573#Comment_120641573

Is this confirmed? I didn't include both academy players going to Connacht.

ersatz

This suggests English international don’t play many more league games than their Leinster counterparts. Some far less.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/25/revealed-top-england-rugby-union-players-premiership-games

letsbefair

World Cup is an opportunity to bring on the next generation.

Clegg

I bit the bullet and rewatched the game. Our attacking play from set piece is the best in the world. All season we've seen slick handling, lines of running and dummy runs. No side executes as well. We'll need to keep Goodman for as long as possible.

JGP was incredible in the opening quarter. He whipped the ball out of the ruck ferociously and took so many La Rochelle defenders out of the game.

Ryan was the best player on the pitch for the 30 minutes he was on. He was the most physically dominant player of either side and his absence killed us. VDF was magnificent in defence but was flagging after 60 minutes. Molony was finished after 50 and needed to be subbed.

Leinster actually dealt well with La Rochelle's poaching game at the ruck. They won a few, but they're so good that they'll always poach some. Leinster's own ground game in defence was superb. Our biggest issue wasn't a lack of poachers, but rather we gave La Rochelle such easy possession with bad kicking and not challenging at the lineout. We know La R are excellent at recycling possession and keeping the ball. Giving them so much ball was bound to lead to scores.

Our defence in general was very good and we frustrated their attacks well for a very long time. But we kept heaping the pressure on ourselves that we were bound to crack eventually. If we kicked better and found touch further into their half we probably win the game.

We nearly won the game multiple times in the last 8 minutes anyway. We had La Rochelle retreating back in the 22 on multiple occasions and but for excellent last ditch tackling we go over.

I don't know how we rectify the issue of pressure affecting the execution of exits from our half. But that's a big one. We also made a massive tactical blunder in not competing for their lineout. That's coupled with La Rochelle outwitting our coaches and actually using Skelton as a jumper where they hadn't in previous fixtures.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642898#Comment_120642898

Interesting that Molony was rested for a couple of matches prior to the final. He did look bollocksed.

Your points are valid and I've rewatched this 3x's. I still am shocked at how poor Jenkins was. His one job is to bring ballast and power and he didn't.

I think Park was very poor in the 2nd half. I'd have yanked him early. The non competing the line out was strange, Molony is a good operator and to give them easy ball....

I cannot for the life of me understand why we didn't just horse Molony up at 2 in the lineout every time in the second half. It got to the point I noticed on the rewatch where the commentator was calling it was going to Skelton at the front before they'd thrown in.

5m out from your line, you're not going to stop their maul (legally) anyway, so better off to give yourself the puncher's chance and fling someone up at the front.

Clegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643029#Comment_120643029

Same. Although, I think it's Baird we should really have been lifting at 2.

He's hyper athletic with a great jump and I've seen him steal lineout ball at the front in multiple games. He's still young and relatively inexperienced and maybe didn't see the shape of La Rochelle's lineout. But our other forwards should have had the cop on to make the call. If POM was playing for Leinster you know he'd be marching to the front of the lineout and jumping at everything.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120643104#Comment_120643104

It's strange! Very poor from Leinster. It's like they turned off the engine.